Player(1) 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6qi1MbTo-o That should save you making threads for those four AP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzkrieg 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 Nice, but doesn't this go to the video section? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 I'll look at the vid a bit later, but I must say that Brundle has always got Alonso's style wrong. I will correct him after I see what he has to say this time Blitz, I love your avatar! Good job! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 I love the aggressive turn in of FA. It looks awesome on TV. One thing has me puzzled however is how FA / Renault dont suffer from excessive front tyre wear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 I love the aggressive turn in of FA. It looks awesome on TV. One thing has me puzzled however is how FA / Renault dont suffer from excessive front tyre wear. very very awkard style, looks pretty clumsy to me, he depends alot on the car, whilst Mclaren having to alter their earo package for 2007.... But take Kimi for instance, smoothness personified, he will make any designer look good, one of only a few drivers that look that way.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 very very awkard style, looks pretty clumsy to me, he depends alot on the car, whilst Mclaren having to alter their earo package for 2007.... But take Kimi for instance, smoothness personified, he will look any designer look good, one of only a few drivers that look that way.... really? not only did he beat Kimi with a slower car last year but he was handicapped by his driving style aswell? wow you've opened my eyes....Alonso did even a better job in my mind now Wouldnt surprise me in the least if Hamilton and other young drivers start to emulate Alonso's style because it clearly gets the job done especially when defending. Oh and having a slippy rear end and locking your fronts ala Kimi/Schumacher sounds the more awkard to me even if it is typical karting style...anyone tell them they have a diff now? Note: Remind me to transcribe Peter Windsor's article about Alonso's driving style sometime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 really? not only did he beat Kimi with a slower car last year but he was handicapped by his driving style aswell? wow you've opened my eyes....Alonso did even a better job in my mind now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 really? not only did he beat Kimi with a slower car last year but he was handicapped by his driving style aswell? wow you've opened my eyes....Alonso did even a better job in my mind now I was comparing driving styles you i...t.!!!! Obviously it works for Alonso together with his dependence on a heavier front suspension, but it's an looks an awkward style... do you grasp it now, or do I need to explains things further??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 Wouldnt surprise me in the least if Hamilton and other young drivers start to emulate Alonso's style because it clearly gets the job done especially when defending. Oh and having a slippy rear end and locking your fronts ala Kimi/Schumacher sounds the more awkard to me even if it is typical karting style...anyone tell them they have a diff now?Note: Remind me to transcribe Peter Windsor's article about Alonso's driving style sometime. I certainly agree with the Karting analogy Player 1, and on that subject, one of the great things about Karts is that they allow you to drive with your own driving-style preference (easy to set a Kart up in many ways) - and they all have advantages and dissadvantages at times. Maybe if you've been through the ranks driving with a fixed style over the years, those that struggle to adapt to the technology of F1 are shown up as worse than they actually are? Who knows... Personally I thought they were all great to watch, and I would love to have seen Massa's style now, compared to the eratic steering input he used to have (allegedly?) One thought though, I can't help thinking that of the three styles shown, who would be the worst to suffer if /when traction control was banned? Another thinks.... I reckon Button suffers from some critiscism due to his un-spectacular driving style. As in: 'he's not quick 'cos he's not leary'. Which I wouldn't agree with by the way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 One thought though, I can't help thinking that of the three styles shown, who would be the worst to suffer if /when traction control was banned? Well certainly Button would suffer the least. As to the rest, obviously if Alonso is pushing the car through the corner, then I wouldn't expect him to suffer too much without TC. Kimi and Michael would probably suffer the most with the former probably suffering just a wee bit more given his relatively jerkier style. As to karting - how do you drive a kart that pushes fast? As f ar as I'm concerned, the more push the slower it goes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 As to karting - how do you drive a kart that pushes fast? As f ar as I'm concerned, the more push the slower it goes... True, but snap oversteer kills momentum if you're kart has a viscous clutch. I'd rather run understeer in those circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 Well certainly Button would suffer the least. As to the rest, obviously if Alonso is pushing the car through the corner, then I wouldn't expect him to suffer too much without TC. Kimi and Michael would probably suffer the most with the former probably suffering just a wee bit more given his relatively jerkier style. As to karting - how do you drive a kart that pushes fast? As f ar as I'm concerned, the more push the slower it goes... Im hopeing that DC is still in F1 in 2008 when TC is banned because i believe he will be able to adapt better than most other drivers as he has a very smooth driving style and has experiance driving a formula 1 car without traction control. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 True, but snap oversteer kills momentum if you're kart has a viscous clutch. I'd rather run understeer in those circumstances. Provided it's predictable, I've never had any oversteer that I couldn't cope with and my experience at the wheel of a kart includes a number of races in the rain on slicks. As to understeer, there's really no way that I know of to deal with it without reducing speed, inclusive of counter-steering and trail braking. Maybe you know something I don't? Im hopeing that DC is still in F1 in 2008 when TC is banned because i believe he will be able to adapt better than most other drivers as he has a very smooth driving style and has experiance driving a formula 1 car without traction control. Shut up about DC already, for Christ's sake... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 Shut up about DC already, for Christ's sake... The day i start caring about what you think is the day that The Pope admitts that god doesnt exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 A point to remember when considering how each driver will fare without TC...all of them progressed up through the lower series, many of them from F3000, and most won races and even championships there. AFAIK, there was no TC in F3000. I would expect most of the top-flight drivers to adapt pretty quickly. It's been my experience that most understeer drivers cannot understand how to go fast with oversteer and vice-versa. Personally, I see an understeer driver going only as fast has his car/kart will allow whereas an oversteer driver can push beyond the car's limit and trust his instincts to correct anything that goes wrong. Simplistic explanation, but it will do, I suppose Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 EDIT: For some reason, the forum posted my comment twice....I deleted the second one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sato 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2006 Its much easier to be consistent with understeer though, surely? Oversteer can too easily trip you up especially if your having it anywhere near the exit, you just won't be able to get on the power... So one slight mistake and you'll screw a lap up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Its much easier to be consistent with understeer though, surely?Oversteer can too easily trip you up especially if your having it anywhere near the exit, you just won't be able to get on the power... So one slight mistake and you'll screw a lap up. Agreed. This is why most classical driving schools will teach you to be an understeer driver, not an oversteer one. The best oversteer drivers are the ones who can go over that edge, lap after lap, like Michael, Mika, and a few others. The worst are erratic, like Narain and Sato; fast on occasion, but mostly erratic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Provided it's predictable, I've never had any oversteer that I couldn't cope with and my experience at the wheel of a kart includes a number of races in the rain on slicks. As to understeer, there's really no way that I know of to deal with it without reducing speed, inclusive of counter-steering and trail braking. Maybe you know something I don't? Karting in the rain is far more predictable (and fun ) than the dry, in my experience. I wasn't saying that understeer was faster, merely that speed can be lost if the engine gets bogged down by the inherent qualities of a viscous clutch. (Do your karts have these or a conventional clutch?) Whilst i too hate understeer i don't think it is slower than oversteer. Although with the former the nose is being pushed away from the apex, with the latter, the tail is. Without stating the obvious to a seasoned hand, anything other than perfect balance and anything introducing an element of scrub that isn't always pushing you forwards is of course slower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Provided it's predictable, I've never had any oversteer that I couldn't cope with and my experience at the wheel of a kart includes a number of races in the rain on slicks. As to understeer, there's really no way that I know of to deal with it without reducing speed, inclusive of counter-steering and trail braking. Maybe you know something I don't? Shut up about DC already, for Christ's sake... I've only ever raced karts without a clutch of any kind, therefore you do have to deal with the inherent push that a fixed axle gives. Of all I've seen I'd say MS is the most 'classical' in dealing with this - and of course it depends on the type of corner we're talking about. But being simplistic, if there's heavy-ish breaking involved you will trail brake, easing off right to the apex with immediate power from being off the brakes. The idea is to scrub off the speed you need before the apex, so a small degree of slip is perfect up to the apex, any after the apex is generally slow. The most satisfying way of killing understeer is with a perfectly timed flick to the apex, un-weighting the rear just long enough to get the nose in. For high speed bends you will have a tiny bit of understeer, but oversteer is bad news on faster bends. Weird, many really love oversteer (myself included) but the only place you need bucket-fulls of it is most loose surface stuff. Yup, driving in the wet is the best! All of the above still applies, it's just that if you're on the limit your underwear fills up faster Understeer is pretty easy to kill on a Kart compared to cars, one of the reasons being that the power to weight ratio is permanently changing - most of the weight being your body, which is why you'll see most karters leaning their head (the one on the shoulders ) and more body weight to the outside of the bend when it's wet, odd technique, but certainly seems to help the outside tyres bite better. The odd play on clutched Karts puts the onus on 'smooth', the clutch is a damned nuisance and 'kills the moment' of the normal karting techniques - mind you, there's so much viscous clutch karting about now that maybe it teaches more about using a smoother technique..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntukza 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Sorry I'm not so clued up in these things. What is understeer and what is oversteer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Sorry I'm not so clued up in these things. What is understeer and what is oversteer? Understeer - The front of the car pushes (understeers) away from the corner apex and the driver has to turn in sharply. Oversteer - The back of the car pushes out (oversteers) and you effectively are turning too sharply through the corner and the driver has to re-correct and opposite lock the steering wheel. *Sorry, I dont know if that makes sense, its hard to describe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narain fan 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 understeer is lack of fron end Grip ,which causes the car to "Under-Steer" over steer is just the opposite,surplus front end grip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dark rider 13 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Sorry I'm not so clued up in these things. What is understeer and what is oversteer? this will explain all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfytVG5POA thank me later lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2006 Understeer - The front of the car pushes (understeers) away from the corner apex and the driver has to turn in sharply.Oversteer - The back of the car pushes out (oversteers) and you effectively are turning too sharply through the corner and the driver has to re-correct and opposite lock the steering wheel. *Sorry, I dont know if that makes sense, its hard to describe understeer is lack of fron end Grip ,which causes the car to "Under-Steer"over steer is just the opposite,surplus front end grip Not quite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
