Panchito 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Its a shame to see williams slide the way they have, after all that they have achieved Sadly F1 has became so commercial the Independant teams are struggling to survive. I hope their 2007 Chassis along with the normally reliable Toyota engines can start to turn them around again. We will fight, if we go down, we will go down like the trees, on our feet! One of the things that i love most of being a true Williams fan is that my team is entirely independent we are one of the few (probably the last one) true racing teams, it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Yea true. I think the teams are put under that much pressure to find an extra 1% that the cars in midfield do break. +1 Agreed. The truth is out there. The cars everywhere do break. And drivers go dance around. It is called "break\dance". Heh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 We will fight, if we go down, we will go down like the trees, on our feet! One of the things that i love most of being a true Williams fan is that my team is entirely independent we are one of the few (probably the last one) true racing teams, it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Sad but true. The days of the true privateer are gone, at least until the manufacturers get bored and go elsewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panchito 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 I am a Willie the w#nker fan, but to say that he's independent is going a bit too far. He's on the leash, as I see it, to Toyota and Tata insofar as both are able to dictate test drivers for the team. It's the same sort of subtle switch that Jordan went through some time ago. When a team lets the sponsors decide those things that the team should decide, you've come close to selling the plot. Indepent teams need money too, last season Williams accepted Narain because they already had Wurz, and Wurz was always the Friday driver, and this year the testing lost a big amount of importance. But, i agree with you, i dont like that my team goes after the money and not after the talent even if it has little importance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Indepent teams need money too, last season Williams accepted Narain because they already had Wurz, and Wurz was always the Friday driver, and this year the testing lost a big amount of importance. But, i agree with you, i dont like that my team goes after the money and not after the talent even if it has little importance. Like it or lump it, we are in the age where if Williams dont go for the money they are out. Sad as it may be Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Sad but true. The days of the true privateer are gone, at least until the manufacturers get bored and go elsewhere. Or, if my Bernie Conspiracy proves true, the teams go elsewhere...leaving the manufacturers with no 'product'............... Indepent teams need money too, last season Williams accepted Narain because they already had Wurz, and Wurz was always the Friday driver, and this year the testing lost a big amount of importance. But, i agree with you, i dont like that my team goes after the money and not after the talent even if it has little importance. What of Nakajima? One I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Williams. Two and your argument is less effective on me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Like it or lump it, we are in the age where if Williams dont go for the money they are out.Sad as it may be Perhaps for the small to mid-grid teams, but do McLaren let sponsors dictate their test drivers? Willie has fallen quite a ways from his former glory in more than just season standings. There was a time when Williams made the decisions, often angering sponsors. When those days return then Williams will be a top team once again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panchito 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Or, if my Bernie Conspiracy proves true, the teams go elsewhere...leaving the manufacturers with no 'product'...............What of Nakajima? One I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Williams. Two and your argument is less effective on me... I dont pretend to change your opinion, i Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Perhaps for the small to mid-grid teams, but do McLaren let sponsors dictate their test drivers? Willie has fallen quite a ways from his former glory in more than just season standings. There was a time when Williams made the decisions, often angering sponsors. When those days return then Williams will be a top team once again. In my opinion Mclaren hasnt been a true independant for some time now, at least since the hook up with Merc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 I dont pretend to change your opinion, i Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 OK. You mean fair assessment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Oke\Nice. My 2007 pre\diction here: Heidfeld gonna score more points than Hamilton. Heh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Oke\Nice. My 2007 pre\diction here: Heidfeld gonna score more points than Hamilton. Heh. On this premise, I hope Lewis is in the top three at the end of the year! Go Hamilton!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 You mean fair assessment? No, I mean that I'm alright with your opinion being what it is and won't debate it further Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Oke\Nice. My 2007 pre\diction here: Heidfeld gonna score more points than Hamilton. Heh. Bah. I thought Russians had more sense than this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 No, I mean that I'm alright with your opinion being what it is and won't debate it further Fair enough. I think there are alot of fingers in the pie thats all. How would you describe them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 On this premise, I hope Lewis is in the top three at the end of the year! Go Hamilton!!! You just kidding ? I can bet right now 1000 $\ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Fair enough.I think there are alot of fingers in the pie thats all. How would you describe them? Nothing goes on in the team without Ron's approval. What Ron wants, he gets... and the sponsors, even Mercedes, have very limited 'pull'. This is starting to NOT be the case at Williams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 [quote name='Autumnpuma' post='166434' date='Jan 15 2007, 11:25 PM']Bah. I thought Russians had more sense than this [/quote] Dunno. I count myself as Earth`s citizen or even Universum creature. Heh. Sense of humor? And i really like Nick zQuick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 You just kidding ? I can bet right now 1000 $\ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Nothing goes on in the team without Ron's approval. What Ron wants, he gets... and the sponsors, even Mercedes, have very limited 'pull'. This is starting to NOT be the case at Williams. What if Ron agrees that going the corporate way is best? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2007 Cool! That mens that Nick will be there also no? BMW (god) knows. 2002 JPM 50 pts \ 3rd (Old PtSystem) 2003 JPM 82 pts \ 3rd (New PtSystem) And Nick is definitly as good as JPM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 What if Ron agrees that going the corporate way is best? There's the difference. Even though Mercedes own a large share in McLaren, they have limited say in what happens at McLaren outside the sphere of engine and some related systems. Toyota don't own a copper penny in Williams F1, yet there is Nakajima. The path Frank is going down has already been trodden. By Eddie Jordan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 We've been here so many times. It is possible for a mechanical hooligan to break a car with lack of finesse. hhmmmm, and who of the current crop got finesse.... Kimi comes to mind, Jenson Button does....hmmmmm who else... . F1racing mag boldly states Kimi is the purest driver in F1, that he manages the dynamic weight of the car perfectly, nothing extraneous about his driving. Finesse, a lovely word, pity Mclaren had these reliability issues. Alonso with his awkard looking turn-in style and aggressive bumper humping seem far off... He seems to be the most aggressive with his car, nada, no finesse.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites