Jenson Button

[Sato 0]

Well if we can't use past results, we can't really use al of last year, your only as good a your last race, right?

He beat Rubens, but IIRC not by that much.

[Shooting Star 0]

Alonso, Raikkonen, Massa, Fisi, Trulli, Ralf, Heidfeld and Coulthard are all superior to Button in my opinion. Maybe even Barrichello.

Is he overrated? Yes. Like everything English. The Premiership and their national team, Henman, their comedy, their pop bands... etc.

[Sato 0]

I was liking your post until you put Massa and Rubens ahead...... NOWAY IMO....

[Player(1) 0]

Alonso, Raikkonen, Massa, Fisi, Trulli, Ralf, Heidfeld and Coulthard are all superior to Button in my opinion. Maybe even Barrichello.

Is he overrated? Yes. Like everything English. The Premiership and their national team, Henman, their comedy, their pop bands... etc.

Thats the only part I can bother to disagree with.

[ykickamoocow 0]

Thats the only part I can bother to disagree with.

Agreed. For the most part i love British comedy with the exception of "Are you being Served" and large quantities of "Little Britian"

[goferrarigo 0]

Top 3 is Alonso, Massa and Kimi.

Schumacher is more overrated i'd say.

i have to agree with Player 1 on this one. i would say Massa as third as he may not have proven himsef on wet but he still has time to do so.

[Player(1) 0]

Agreed. For the most part i love British comedy with the exception of "Are you being Served" and large quantities of "Little Britian"

They gave me some good giggles, I'm comedy mad.

[monza gorilla 1]

Just had a thought. If Button is not in the top 3, then who are those 3? It seems that Kimi and the eyebrow monster are a popular choice for 1 and 2, but what about the number 3?

If anyone says Massa I'll fall off my chair............

And what criteria do you use to come up with these rankings? Steve put it best in the other thread on this subject.

[dribbler 6]

Just had a thought. If Button is not in the top 3, then who are those 3? It seems that Kimi and the eyebrow monster are a popular choice for 1 and 2, but what about the number 3?

If anyone says Massa I'll fall off my chair............

And what criteria do you use to come up with these rankings? Steve put it best in the other thread on this subject.

Thanks Russ, that thread has been deleted now. I was basically saying that it is impossible to make a fair and objective assessment of Button's abilities (or anyone's for that matter) without being privvy to telemetry and other data. Whilst that argument potentially kills debate, it is worth remembering that without knowing just how good JB's machinary has been, it's not fair to rank him.

Top 3? Kimi, Fernando and...........oh dear....come back Michael, please.

[Max Mosley 2]

Well if we can't use past results, we can't really use al of last year, your only as good a your last race, right?

He beat Rubens, but IIRC not by that much.

No you just have to use the results intelligently. Kimi was beaten in both his first two years but few would say NH and DC were even as good as him now. I think it's obvious to anyone with an open mind that more recent results count more than older results, especially someone's first two years in F1, when assessing someone's present performance. However by most people's reckoning, including all the senior people at Williams, JB had an extremely impressive rookie year. That leaves one year where by his own admission he performed extremely badly, probably because he let the fame from his impressive debut get to his head. Since then he has improved massively and realised the potential FW saw in him. This is what the stats show in any sensible interpretation.

I think you're being silly now using only the last race, but if we must be this childish, iirc JB beat RB pretty easily at the brazilian's home race. In fact I've just checked and it was 3rd place compared to 7th, with a gap of more than 21s between them. Again that's comparable to what Schumacher managed with the help of team orders.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Way back in the latter part of the previous century, Button went faster than Alesi during a test. That's good enough for me as an indication of raw speed. I'll accept Button as being in the top 5.

[aussief1 4]

I voted no JB is not the most over-rated driver and no he is not one of the best three in the game. My reason is below.

Just had a thought. If Button is not in the top 3, then who are those 3? It seems that Kimi and the eyebrow monster are a popular choice for 1 and 2, but what about the number 3?

If anyone says Massa I'll fall off my chair............

And what criteria do you use to come up with these rankings? Steve put it best in the other thread on this subject.

I'm of the opinion that a third best driver has yet to be established in the AS* era. The 2007 season should deliver us an answer.

*After Schumacher

[erichbarto 0]

i do not think that button is overrated, then again, being american im sure the british put a lot of press and hope for that matter, into jenson.

so i do not see that from where i am sitting.

hes obviously has talent, and i believe he can be world champion in a consistently reliable car.

you have to remember that getting to F1 is a lot harder than most people realize, and if your there, you've worked for it in some way or another.

my point is have some faith in Jenson. if you dont like him thats ok too, but at least respect him as a F1 driver.

[goferrarigo 0]

I voted no JB is not the most over-rated driver and no he is not one of the best three in the game. My reason is below.

I'm of the opinion that a third best driver has yet to be established in the AS* era. The 2007 season should deliver us an answer.

*After Schumacher

that leads us to the question, how do you define the best?? race wins? raw speed? fastest laps??

[F1 FANatic 1]

the best is defined by all the above goferrari but even more so, the best is the one who can preform the best possible for the longest time, and for me Button has been a joke in that area

I think we all remember the headlines 5 years ago: Button to beat Michael in first season, or at least that what the press was implying

He has had plenty of chances to win and show his talent, and how did he win his first race. After the 3 cars in front of him crashed due to rain and bad wheel nuts.

Now you JB fans may ask you say Mika only won his first race in his 99th GP, but even before we all knew he was destined for something great. JB just hasn't impressed. And if you look at F1 history, those who came into the sport hyped never made it anywhere.

When you watch a Mika, or Senna, or Michael, or Prost or, or Rindt, you saw their greatness in their driving, but with Button you just see car on rail.

[monza gorilla 1]

Ok, this brings us around to the how and why and is going to be an interesting exercise if anyone cares to participate. F1Fanatic, please tell us the differences between the driving of Prost and the driving of Button. And then tell us how we all knew that Mika was destined for great things. And then tell us what were the plenty of chances to win that Button had. And remember that if you present things as fact then people will want to see the evidence. All in all not one of your better posts.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

He has had plenty of chances to win and show his talent, and how did he win his first race. After the 3 cars in front of him crashed due to rain and bad wheel nuts.

When you watch a Mika, or Senna, or Michael, or Prost or, or Rindt, you saw their greatness in their driving, but with Button you just see car on rail.

plenty of chances to win??? erm, when was that? His victory wasnt "3 cars in front crashing" his victory was fighting his way from 14th, overtaking both ferrari's and Fisi on the way, then benefiting from alonso's failure. Dont exaggerate, it only makes u appear less credible.

As for your last comment, i would disagree that its a car on rails - its silky smooth faultless driving, and the driving errors are very very rare. Bit like Prost so what the hell are you on about.

And to whoever mentioned 2004, PLEASE dont bring that up again - its like ur too stupid to remember that Ferrari were totally dominant

[BradSpeedMan 6]

plenty of chances to win??? erm, when was that? His victory wasnt "3 cars in front crashing" his victory was fighting his way from 14th, overtaking both ferrari's and Fisi on the way, then benefiting from alonso's failure. Dont exaggerate, it only makes u appear less credible.

As for your last comment, i would disagree that its a car on rails - its silky smooth faultless driving, and the driving errors are very very rare. Bit like Prost so what the hell are you on about.

And to whoever mentioned 2004, PLEASE dont bring that up again - its like ur too stupid to remember that Ferrari were totally dominant

definately!

[shampion 0]

What HAS he done that would put him anywhere near the top three drivers?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

What HAS he done that would put him anywhere near the top three drivers?

To be a champion you need the speed, consitency, maturity and great racing skills, I think JB has them all. He races cleanly, his overtaking is brilliant, he's on it every race, is challenging at or near the front most of the time when the car shouldnt really be there, plus he's had so many outstanding performances over the years which most other drivers just dont produce. Its not all about wins and stats you know, otherwise you must think Coulthard is the 2nd best driver in F1? Followed possibly by Ralf Schumacher?

[aussief1 4]

What HAS he done that would put him anywhere near the top three drivers?

I would say that he has driven what ever car he has been given to it's absolute potential. I'm not saying that JB is the third best driver in the game at the moment but he sure is not that far away from it.

Give JB a worthy car and he will do it justice. As jemstride said 2004 is not a good indicator, the BAR was the second best car, Ferrari / Bridgestone was supreme.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I would say that he has driven what ever car he has been given to it's absolute potential. I'm not saying that JB is the third best driver in the game at the moment but he sure is not that far away from it.

Give JB a worthy car and he will do it justice. As jemstride said 2004 is not a good indicator, the BAR was the second best car, Ferrari / Bridgestone was supreme.

i personally dont even think the BAR was any better than the renault. People only assume the BAR was better because jenson was so consistently on the pace and finished ahead of the renaults on points.

Im interested to know who people DO think the 3rd best driver is, i might even start another thread. Cos i cant think of any driver who I would place above jenson (other than kimi and alonso of course)

[aussief1 4]

i personally dont even think the BAR was any better than the renault. People only assume the BAR was better because jenson was so consistently on the pace and finished ahead of the renaults on points.

Im interested to know who people DO think the 3rd best driver is, i might even start another thread. Cos i cant think of any driver who I would place above jenson (other than kimi and alonso of course)

I can see your point there Jemstride

But I would still rate the BAR 006 a better car than the Renault R24, on the basis that Renault had two drivers capable of scoring points consistantly and they still didn't beat BAR in the Constructors Championship (119 vs. 105). I'm sorry for all our Tuku fans here but he was hardly the driver in 2004 to take full advantage of a good car was he. Jenson was a lone warrior that year and still managed to fight off the Renaults.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

10 podiums, 2nd best car or not, is impressive whichever way you look at it. And his performances at imola and hockenheim were such that other 'second division' drivers like ralf, massa, dc, heidfeld, fisi etc just dont produce

[aussief1 4]

10 podiums, 2nd best car or not, is impressive whichever way you look at it. And his performances at imola and hockenheim were such that other 'second division' drivers like ralf, massa, dc, heidfeld, fisi etc just dont produce

Agree

In fact the more I think about it the more I'm warming to the fact that if asked to vote I would say Jenson is the third best driver at this very moment.