Who Are Your Top 3 Drivers In F1?

[Quiet One 15]

You are being obtuse on purpose by picking the one google entry out of thousands that doesn't prove my point. Are you really that bad at searching the internet?

I read his post and was like "WTF?" also lol.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I read his post and was like "WTF?" also lol.

Indeed. Look we can argue all day on this forum about whether or not Kimi is hard on his car, but to argue that the whole concept of mechanical sympathy doesn't exist is.....illogical.

[Shane2 0]

Had the second fastest car on the grid? What makes u say that? Or maybe he just drove his balls off - where was his team-mate who was also in the supposedly 2nd fastest car?

With the win, yes the team were perfect with the strategy, but Button didnt even have a little slip whilst most other drivers were struggling. When the track was drying out JB was miles faster than anyone, now you can say "he had the best car/2nd best" or whatever, but it looked to me simply like outstanding driving, and Alonso was showing us the same thing while his team-mate was going backwards across the gravel.

I should've known that when JB finally gets a win, there will be many who will still pick out faults!! Or even faults that arent actually there. There must be something about him that people just cant bring themselves to give him credit for the sublime driving that he shows us almost every race. It makes me sad, its like I'm seeing something blindingly obvious and yet everyone else is blind to it, or even worse, they're blind to it and then go and say Felipe Massa or Mark Webber are better, when they've done ****-ALL!!!!!!!!! I do have anger issues

Yes i can tell. I am not slagging jenson off at all, i have got nothing against him, i just feel the win needs to be put in the context that it should be put in. Good, but not spectacular driving, coupled with his competition dropping off the race track. Put him in the same car, in the dry, under normal circumstances and ask yourself whether he would still have won. Barrichello finished 7th in the brazilian GP. He was on a 1 stopper that quiet clearly did not do him any favours. I personally just do not feel that 1 win suddenly makes him world class. Yes, he is skilled, but what has he actually proven? that he can score podiums and win in the wet when his competition drops out. Whoop de doo. Let him prove himself, and my stance may change but i am not going to jump up and down and wet my pants over a driver with 1 win and a handful of podiums. No offence to his fans, but i just feel he has a lot to prove yet.

[goldjaazz 0]

All i am going to say is that F1 is a team sport.....

join the dots on that!!

[Machi 0]

Yes i can tell. I am not slagging jenson off at all, i have got nothing against him, i just feel the win needs to be put in the context that it should be put in. Good, but not spectacular driving, coupled with his competition dropping off the race track. Put him in the same car, in the dry, under normal circumstances and ask yourself whether he would still have won. Barrichello finished 7th in the brazilian GP. He was on a 1 stopper that quiet clearly did not do him any favours. I personally just do not feel that 1 win suddenly makes him world class. Yes, he is skilled, but what has he actually proven? that he can score podiums and win in the wet when his competition drops out. Whoop de doo. Let him prove himself, and my stance may change but i am not going to jump up and down and wet my pants over a driver with 1 win and a handful of podiums. No offence to his fans, but i just feel he has a lot to prove yet.

In 2003/2004 Alonso was seen as a good driver. He didn't have the best car on the grid and he had some moments he got beaten by his teammate. He got some podiums and a win from pole when his competition got stuck behind a slower car. In 2005 he got the best car and he won the championship. Suddenly Alonso was a superstar who had proven everything. But without that car he wouldn't have been able to do that. If Renault would've stayed a subtopteam Alonso wouldn't have been a double Formula 1 champion, and he couldn't have done anything about it. That's the same with Button now, he can't prove more then he has done now in that car, he just has to hope for a better car in which he can seriously challenge for wins in any circumstances. Then suddenly everybody will see he can win and then everybody will say he has proven to be a winner. But that's just down to the car and not to Jenson.

[Shane2 0]

Then maybe we should wait till we see him in a better car before we judge him as an F1 driver

There was buzz about Alonso, yes, but not the kind of media frenzy that persistantly surrounds button.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Then maybe we should wait till we see him in a better car before we judge him as an F1 driver

There was buzz about Alonso, yes, but not the kind of media frenzy that persistantly surrounds button.

Are you sure 'Nando isn't getting that in Spain?

[Quiet One 15]

Are you sure 'Nando isn't getting that in Spain?

I'd say yes. But both situations are not the same. FA is a proven and worthy WDC, JB is just a promise, for now. Would be fairer to compare JB fuzzing with another promise, like Massa in Brazil or some other driver...just my opinion.

[Sato 0]

No, i do honestly try and refrain from being biased and try to back up any arguments I make. You said Jenson cant defend for Sh#t, he defends position every race, as do all the other drivers, and u can only think of 1 example in 2005, and another one where he wasnt actually defending he just made a mistake and hit the wall. Thats why I find them hard to take, well 1 of them, I did say in a previous quote that Imola was indeed poor defending, but you tell me 1 driver who's never done the same thing in their career. Alonso's been overtaken many many times, but I dont say he cant defend cos i'm not a moron.

Plus you wont even concede that Jensons win was at all impressive, or give him any credit for that matter, hence why your views appear to be swayed by your obvious dislike for JB. Calling him over-rated makes me wonder just what do you look at when judging a driver?? Wasnt it you who said Webber is the 3rd best driver in F1?

Jenson does enough in my eyes to NOT be over-rated. Over-rated are drivers like Kubica and Massa - drivers who havent actually done anything much at all but are being praised like they're going to be super-major forces. Jenson on the other hand time and time again produces displays that make me such a fan - surely u havent forgotten his drive to 3rd from 14th at interlagos? are you going to tell me that was down to inherited positions??

That right there is a load of crap. I'm hoping it was this forum where I told people to get over it because Jenson won, and deservedly so....... (my comment early was just to point out some irony)

Yes I did put Webber as my #3, in this thread. Kubica and Massa are indeed overated, particularly Massa. Kubica has shown some goods, but not enough to be rated as highly s he already is, we'll see if he can keep it up in 07, before we can see if he realy is that good.

No Im not going to say his Interlagos drive was down to luck, he pulled a good move in that race, and was quite quick, and he only started 14th because of TC issues, but that doesn't automatically make him a top 3 driver, surely.

[Wez 0]

In 2003/2004 Alonso was seen as a good driver. He didn't have the best car on the grid and he had some moments he got beaten by his teammate. He got some podiums and a win from pole when his competition got stuck behind a slower car. In 2005 he got the best car and he won the championship. Suddenly Alonso was a superstar who had proven everything. But without that car he wouldn't have been able to do that. If Renault would've stayed a subtopteam Alonso wouldn't have been a double Formula 1 champion, and he couldn't have done anything about it. That's the same with Button now, he can't prove more then he has done now in that car, he just has to hope for a better car in which he can seriously challenge for wins in any circumstances. Then suddenly everybody will see he can win and then everybody will say he has proven to be a winner. But that's just down to the car and not to Jenson.

There is no brain science involved in figuring this one out....

In 2003/2004 Alonso was pretty much still a rookie, and has massively improved since then.

To show you how much he has improved, he has beaten a 7 time world champion and the apparently highly rated Raikkonen to the title for 2 years in a row. He has also only had his team mate (a driver who was voted driver of the year in the early 2000's by his fellow drivers) beat him on 4 occasions in the last 37 Grand Prix's.

I would say Alonso is nothing short of a superstar currently while Button is just a good driver with a lot to prove.

[Wez 0]

Yes I did put Webber as my #3, in this thread. Kubica and Massa are indeed overated, particularly Massa. Kubica has shown some goods, but not enough to be rated as highly s he already is, we'll see if he can keep it up in 07, before we can see if he realy is that good.

Indeed, Massa looked good in 2006 in a super fast car and got wins by default.... Particularly Brazil!

Kubica still has a lot to prove... Im infact not yet convinced he is better than Heidfeld even.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Kubica still has a lot to prove... Im infact not yet convinced he is better than Heidfeld even.

Kubeetza is plenty fun to watch, though....Nicky puts me to sleep

[Wez 0]

Kubeetza is plenty fun to watch, though....Nicky puts me to sleep

Yeah, this is true I guess.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Only idiots blame it all on kimi, there was only 1 occasion on which i remember a retirement being a result of dodgy driving. People like Cavallino, and any other ferrari fans would be liable to blame it on Alonso, obviously, but its easy to lose site of the real issue in technical failures, and that the driver has no input into the vast majority of them.

It would also be equally interesting to see what the press and fans would make of it if Ferrari suddenly started having failures on Kimi's car. The press justlove to heap pressure on people.

I like the way you talk lately, I need to add you to my friend list!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Yes i can tell. I am not slagging jenson off at all, i have got nothing against him, i just feel the win needs to be put in the context that it should be put in. Good, but not spectacular driving, coupled with his competition dropping off the race track. Put him in the same car, in the dry, under normal circumstances and ask yourself whether he would still have won. Barrichello finished 7th in the brazilian GP. He was on a 1 stopper that quiet clearly did not do him any favours. I personally just do not feel that 1 win suddenly makes him world class. Yes, he is skilled, but what has he actually proven? that he can score podiums and win in the wet when his competition drops out. Whoop de doo. Let him prove himself, and my stance may change but i am not going to jump up and down and wet my pants over a driver with 1 win and a handful of podiums. No offence to his fans, but i just feel he has a lot to prove yet.

im not saying that the 1 victory makes him world class, im talking about the countless top class performances over the last 4 years or so. True, if hungary was dry he probably wouldnt have won, but the fact is it did rain, most drivers made mistakes, JB didn't, you say he only won cos his competition dropped out, which we both know is untrue. Even though he hasnt proven that he can challenge for titles (due to the machinery of course!) he has proven that he can fight at the front without making silly errors, as he has had many many battles with kimi and alonso and it hasnt phased him. When was the last time anyone can think of JB colliding with another driver? He's 1 of the best racers in the field I think

[BradSpeedMan 6]

im not saying that the 1 victory makes him world class, im talking about the countless top class performances over the last 4 years or so. True, if hungary was dry he probably wouldnt have won, but the fact is it did rain, most drivers made mistakes, JB didn't, you say he only won cos his competition dropped out, which we both know is untrue. Even though he hasnt proven that he can challenge for titles (due to the machinery of course!) he has proven that he can fight at the front without making silly errors, as he has had many many battles with kimi and alonso and it hasnt phased him. When was the last time anyone can think of JB colliding with another driver? He's 1 of the best racers in the field I think

Jenson Button may be overhyped, but he's not overrated in my books....I believe if you'de put in in the same car that Alonso had the last 2 years, he'de also be champion.....

[Jem of the Shire 0]

i dont even know why people still say he's overhyped or over-rated, the hype stopped at least 3 years ago!!!

[ykickamoocow 0]

im not saying that the 1 victory makes him world class, im talking about the countless top class performances over the last 4 years or so. True, if hungary was dry he probably wouldnt have won, but the fact is it did rain, most drivers made mistakes, JB didn't, you say he only won cos his competition dropped out, which we both know is untrue. Even though he hasnt proven that he can challenge for titles (due to the machinery of course!) he has proven that he can fight at the front without making silly errors, as he has had many many battles with kimi and alonso and it hasnt phased him. When was the last time anyone can think of JB colliding with another driver? He's 1 of the best racers in the field I think

I can only think of Fisi who made a mistake. All other drivers were effected by things outside of there control.

[Sato 0]

Kubica and Speed I remember made major mistakes. (Raikkonen as well maybe?)

[Schumikonen 2]

You are being obtuse on purpose by picking the one google entry out of thousands that doesn't prove my point. Are you really that bad at searching the internet?

Yes I am, I was going to ask for help.

[ykickamoocow 0]

Kubica and Speed I remember made major mistakes. (Raikkonen as well maybe?)

Raikkonen didnt make a mistake and Kubica and Speed were hardly competitive. Basically no Bridgestone run team could win and Fisi make a mistake and Alonso had accident which wasnt his fault.

[silvermachine 0]

1] KIMI

2] DC

3] Alonso

[Machi 0]

There is no brain science involved in figuring this one out....

In 2003/2004 Alonso was pretty much still a rookie, and has massively improved since then.

To show you how much he has improved, he has beaten a 7 time world champion and the apparently highly rated Raikkonen to the title for 2 years in a row. He has also only had his team mate (a driver who was voted driver of the year in the early 2000's by his fellow drivers) beat him on 4 occasions in the last 37 Grand Prix's.

I would say Alonso is nothing short of a superstar currently while Button is just a good driver with a lot to prove.

In 2003/2004 Alonso wasn't a rookie anymore, he did 1 full season plus a testing year at Renault. He was very impressive some races, in 2003 he won once, in 2004 he didn't. Then the next year he suddenly wins 7 races and the championship. Can't be just Alonso massively improving, he just had the best car on the grid and that was quite obvious to see. Next year his Mclaren might not be up for it, but then he still is the superstar who can win races, but he might not be able to do it. Will you say then that he massively deteriorated?

It can change pretty fast for a F1 driver, look at Massa for instance. When he drove at Sauber people thought he was a bit reckless and didn't even see him as a top-10 driver. Now he's at Ferrari for 1 year and some people already believe he's in the top-3 of Formula 1. It's all about the car, that's just being underestimated.

[cavallino 2]

There is no brain science involved in figuring this one out....

In 2003/2004 Alonso was pretty much still a rookie, and has massively improved since then.

He was a rookie for 4 years

To show you how much he has improved, he has beaten a 7 time world champion

That's a facile argument, if the Ferrari engine had held, you would be here whining about how he deserved to win, as you were earlier in the season. So just the fact that he won does not prove anythign about his prowess.

He has also only had his team mate allowed to (a driver who was voted driver of the year in the early 2000's by his fellow drivers) beat him on 4 occasions in the last 37 Grand Prix's.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Alonso has been in F1 since 2001, so of course he wasnt a rookie in 03/04!!!

you're right about it being all about the car. im surprised by the amount of people now think Massa is up there with kimi and alonso