c21 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Ok, I have started this topic to ask you of your thoughts about Toyota (in my opinion the enigma of current F1) Why with all the might of the Toyota empire are they still d#cking around in the midfield after all this time? I dont really dislike them, but for me they are non team, no results really to speak of, no pzazz, no prescence, no real obvious innovation. What do you think, what should they do, are they doing fine in your opinions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayStorm 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 I think they'll pull out fairly soon. They are absolutely pourig money in, twice as much as Renault I think for nothing really. Their drivers are pretty reasonable but both are ageing, they need new talent. Not too sure why they haven't done better though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 well they definately gave us something to talk about at the beginning of 2005 when Trulli was 2nd in the championship until the 4th or 5th race, but they havent improved since - there's been in-fightning, and Gascoyne getting sacked, so seems like the organisation and management is nowhere near as smooth as the top teams. They've got the budget and sooner or later they will get it right. i'm sure they're doing everything they possibly can, cos they keep getting beaten by Honda and thats not nice. I agree that there doesnt seem to be much 'personality' to the team, hence why their fanbase is minimal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 well they definately gave us something to talk about at the beginning of 2005 when Trulli was 2nd in the championship until the 4th or 5th race, but they havent improved since - there's been in-fightning, and Gascoyne getting sacked, so seems like the organisation and management is nowhere near as smooth as the top teams. They've got the budget and sooner or later they will get it right. i'm sure they're doing everything they possibly can, cos they keep getting beaten by Honda and thats not nice.I agree that there doesnt seem to be much 'personality' to the team, hence why their fanbase is minimal I agree with Jaystorm that they are likely to pull out in the near future, they have to at least be able to beat Honda and though Honda is not the best team, Toyota arent even close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 well they definately gave us something to talk about at the beginning of 2005 when Trulli was 2nd in the championship until the 4th or 5th race, but they havent improved since - there's been in-fightning, and Gascoyne getting sacked, so seems like the organisation and management is nowhere near as smooth as the top teams. They've got the budget and sooner or later they will get it right. i'm sure they're doing everything they possibly can, cos they keep getting beaten by Honda and thats not nice.I agree that there doesnt seem to be much 'personality' to the team, hence why their fanbase is minimal Their Japanese fanbase though is enormous* Jem, for Toyota and their drivers... but only there.... *from an article in F1racing mag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayStorm 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Well it'll be less now that Suzuka is no longer on the calender. Oh and I agree about Mike Gascoigne aswell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Well it'll be less now that Suzuka is no longer on the calender.Oh and I agree about Mike Gascoigne aswell. I think it(fanbase) will just be tranferred to Fuji.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Well it'll be less now that Suzuka is no longer on the calender.Oh and I agree about Mike Gascoigne aswell. i think suzuka is owned by Honda, and Fuji owned by toyota, may be wrong though. Not surprised that most of their fans are from japan, but thats only cos the japs want to see their country's manufacturer doing well, the team itself doesnt appeal to anyone and makes no attempt to do so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Why aren't they succeeding? Because they design by committee. And remember, a horse designed by a committee is a camel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Why aren't they succeeding? Because they design by committee. And remember, a horse designed by a committee is a camel. clear and precise, love it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Why aren't they succeeding? Because they design by committee. And remember, a horse designed by a committee is a camel. Back to your best form, MG ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Why aren't they succeeding? Because they design by committee. And remember, a horse designed by a committee is a camel. Sadly, I dont think the Japanese will change their philosophy. Toyota, May your new owners make better use of your facility Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Todd 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Longtime lurker jumping in here with post #2... I'm going to agree with Jaystorm, I think they're going to pull out when they see the success that will come with their NASCAR exposure in 2007. The value just isn't in F1 for someone of Toyota's size. What does F1 do for their company? Establish it as a premium brand or technology? Lexus maybe, but not Toyota. If Hybrid technology comes into F1 this would all change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 Ok, I have started this topic to ask you of your thoughts about Toyota (in my opinion the enigma of current F1)Why with all the might of the Toyota empire are they still d#cking around in the midfield after all this time? I dont really dislike them, but for me they are non team, no results really to speak of, no pzazz, no prescence, no real obvious innovation. What do you think, what should they do, are they doing fine in your opinions? They need more people who have been with cars, people who have got hands dirty with oil and grease, people with spanners and hammers, people who think, No Pain, No gain! Not a bunch of geeks with laptops constantly making 3d models of the cars. Not the guys who made the corollas, they need the guys who made Supras! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c21 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 They need more people who have been with cars, people who have got hands dirty with oil and grease, people with spanners and hammers, people who think, No Pain, No gain! Not a bunch of geeks with laptops constantly making 3d models of the cars. Not the guys who made the corollas, they need the guys who made Supras! I dont agree, the people in the design office are guys who have worked for other teams, therefore they have the experience to build F1 cars. The people on the shop floor also circulate among teams. I guess the problem lies with the management structure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 I'll lay part of the blame on the drivers. Ralfie and Trulli should have been phased-out long ago.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 I'll lay part of the blame on the drivers. Ralfie and Trulli should have been phased-out long ago.... noway its not the drivers, ralf and jarno have both proved on several occasions that they can get the job done if the cars got the pace. I think its bad structure, bad management, probably bad communication and bad organisation within the team. But then again i've never visited their factory so how would I know anything - we're all guessing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 I'll lay part of the blame on the drivers. Ralfie and Trulli should have been phased-out long ago.... That I would say is just one of many reasons. Toyota never really have had any skill in regards to selecting drivers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted January 9, 2007 That I would say is just one of many reasons. Toyota never really have had any skill in regards to selecting drivers. Well...as this is more of a guessing game than anything else, here is mine: I think that it is mostly due to an issue with the company culture, probably not adapted to run a whole F! team. JT and RF (well, at least JT) are at least average drivers, they can't account for such dismal seasons as Toyota had. They don't look overly motivated, though. Perhaps rivers of money is no answer to Toyota problems (and they certainly aren't making Ralf drive any better). Certainly managemente must play a central role on this commitment to failure at any cost, whether it's failing on the tech dept., management of drivers or whatever, they are just taking defeat from the jaws of victory, so to speak. And yeah, I am no fan of Toyota nor of Ralf, in case you haven't noticed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 I dont agree, the people in the design office are guys who have worked for other teams, therefore they have the experience to build F1 cars.The people on the shop floor also circulate among teams. I guess the problem lies with the management structure. yeah, bunch of geeks being spoilt by luxuries in their offices, they dont work as effetiently as Ferrari or Renault and Mclaren. They should be given the essential facilities and must be forced to deliver, or else, throw Toyota Team off the shelf and just supply engines to Williams and remain as their official engine supplier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 yeah, bunch of geeks being spoilt by luxuries in their offices, they dont work as effetiently as Ferrari or Renault and Mclaren. They should be given the essential facilities and must be forced to deliver, or else, throw Toyota Team off the shelf and just supply engines to Williams and remain as their official engine supplier. That's why I believe Toyota have signed the engine deal with Williams. It is a perfect way to analyse how their own team is performing and it also gives them a way to remain in Formula One if they where to sell their entire operation in the future. Toyota will also benefit greatly from the technology share that they have established with Williams. The first major transfer of information has been the Williams seemless shift gearbox that Toyota will use in 07. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 That's why I believe Toyota have signed the engine deal with Williams. It is a perfect way to analyse how their own team is performing and it also gives them a way to remain in Formula One if they where to sell their entire operation in the future.Toyota will also benefit greatly from the technology share that they have established with Williams. The first major transfer of information has been the Williams seemless shift gearbox that Toyota will use in 07. yep...makes sense, I was about to point out that, what ever! lets wait and see! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 I think they are just discovering that their philosophy (The Toyota way) simply just dosent work for F1, maybe they would have better look if they tryed to keep up with the evolutionary designs instead of just pushing on their own way. Then again maybe the toyota way is better but they just need the R&D to catch up and then we will see things falling into place for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 They all need a big kick in the c#cks, that'd do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2007 They all need a big kick in the c#cks, that'd do it. Many of them are asian so you'd have to take more time to aim..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
