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Schumikonen

Iranian Threat???

If Israel had tactical nukes, would it use them against Iran?   14 members have voted

  1. 1. Would They?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      5
  2. 2. Should they?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      11

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65 posts in this topic

Errr Are you aware of the weapons the U.S. sells no gifts to Israel, anything the Palestinians have in comparison is mere fireworks. Besides, they should be a legal nation and a nation has the right to use arms to defend itself. Whereas Israel is the one ocupying foreign territorym not defending itself. So who should have the weapons?

What about the hundreds of people, civilians killedin Gaza in the recent Israeli invasion. The number killed in Israel by rocket is probably less than 10..

It doesn't motter how many got killed the main thing is that they keep attacking Isarel and Isarel is Ignoring those attacks or at least was.

that is a provocation like thoses kidnapping that Palestinian and hezbollah did.

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Bollocks. Where does Iran support terrorism? What is terrorism? Is fighting an invading fource which occupies land that legitimately belongs to your own country terrorism?

My my. It's the church isn't it? They fed you all this right?

Actually the only way Israel has is to move to its legally defined borders and return land that does not belong to it. Syria will make a peace settlement tomorrow if they return Goilan heights. Accept a Palestine state in East Jerusalem, Gaza and West bank and Hamas will too. Both these countries are legally entitled to this according to UN security council resolutions.

Believe me, the Church have nothing to do with this, the Pastor of my church is probably no aware of this and must of the people in church does not read enough the bible to find out what are God's plan for Israel, must of the people in church hate Israel because they see Israel as the country who killed Jesus and the country who rejected him, must of the people in Xianity does not understand this, so I can asure you that this have nothing to do with church.

I think you heard about farkland Island (Islas Malvinas in spanish) those Island are in Argentina and England took them in the 80s there was a war bettween them but the strongest one took the islands, and what the UN did about that? There is a song that says "The winner takes it all" and that's the way we are living in this wolrd, Israel won thoses territories like England won the Farkland and Isarel should keep them until England return the Farkland Island, here is the story.

War of the six days

War fought in 1967 between Israel on one side and Egypt, Jordan and Syria on the other side. The active Arab states received aid from Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Algeria.

From its beginning to the end, the war lasted 132 hours and 30 minutes (less than 6 days). But the duration was shorter on 2 of the 3 fronts: on the Egyptian side only 4 days, and on the Jordanian side only 3 days. It was only on the Syrian side that the war lasted the whole 6 days.

The war could have lasted longer than it did, and the result could have been different and less humiliating for the Arabs, as their the power of their armies was far from depleted. But there were mainly 2 reasons why the Arab nations gave in: 1. The lost territories held relatively few inhabitants (as was the case with Sinai for Egypt and Golan Heights for Syria) or was occupied territory (as was the case with Gaza Strip for Egypt and West Bank for Jordan). 2. The capitals of each of the three countries were threatened (Israeli troops were less than 100 km from Cairo and less than 50 km from Damascus and Amman).

The war was the most dramatic of all wars fought between Israel and the Arab nations, resulting in a depression in the Arab world lasting many years, changing the mentalities and political orientations among the people, as well as resulting in increased tensions between the Arab countries and the Western world. While the actual material and human losses were dramatic enough, Arab weakness in this war compared to Israeli efficiency will probably not be forgot for still many decades to come.

The war left Israel with the largest territorial gains from any of the wars the country had been involved in: Sinai and Gaza Strip were captured from Egypt, East Jerusalem and West Bank from Jordan and Golan Heights from Syria.

For the international society the war resulted in a closure of the Suez Canal for 8 years, resulting in increase of freight prices in international trade.

HISTORY

1967 May: Forces on both Arab and Israeli sides of the borders are mobilized.

June 5: Israel attacks Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Israel achieved great victories immediately, especially on the Egyptian front, where Egyptian air crafts are wiped out after effective bombing of air strips.

June 7: The strategically important Egyptian Sharm el-Sheikh is captured.

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It doesn't motter how many got killed the main thing is that they keep attacking Isarel and Isarel is Ignoring those attacks or at least was.

Huh? Why doesn't it matter how many were killed? How on earth was Israel ignoring those atacks, how does murdering 20 innocent Palestinians for every Israeli killed or hurt count as 'ignoring'?

that is a provocation like thoses kidnapping that Palestinian and hezbollah did.
Where does destroying half a country, occupying another and murdering thousands etc etc come on your list of provocations? Who is the provocateur, the side that captured one soldier, or the side that holds land belonging to the other side, that holds thousands of prisoners of the other side?
Prisoners and Detainees

As of November, Israel held 9,075 Palestinians in custody, including 345 minors. Of these, 738 (22 minors) were held in administrative detention, without trial and without knowing the charges against them.

They captured one prisoner you say?

Believe me, the Church have nothing to do with this, the Pastor of my church is probably no aware of this and must of the people in church does not read enough the bible to find out what are God's plan for Israel, must of the people in church hate Israel because they see Israel as the country who killed Jesus and the country who rejected him, must of the people in Xianity does not understand this, so I can asure you that this have nothing to do with church.

Fair enough, if you want to make a case, keep references to satan out of it, they are entirely irrelevant and add no strength to your argument. Try to look at the issue without letting your ingrained bias against one religion could everything.

I think you heard about farkland Island (Islas Malvinas in spanish) those Island are in Argentina and England took them in the 80s there was a war bettween them but the strongest one took the islands, and what the UN did about that?
The claim of Argentina on the islands is rather more tenuous, there is no popular support for accession to Argentina among the islands' residents. Most crucially, the residents of the islands are full British citizens. A citizen of occupied Palestine has no rights, and has to face apartheid like rulse in his/her own homeland.
There is a song that says "The winner takes it all" and that's the way we are living in this wolrd

No sir. We are not living in that kind of a world. Do you really want that? Do you want another world war? The casualties this time will be hundreds of millions of people at least. Haev you a clue about the brutalities of war? Correct me if I am entirely wrong but I remember you saying that you are in the U.S. but you came from an east European country. How would you feel if the Russians occupied your country tomorrow, evicted you from your home, put you and your family in a refugee camp and took all your rights away? Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

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I think he's from the Dominican Republic, Cav.

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Believe me, the Church have nothing to do with this, the Pastor of my church is probably no aware of this and must of the people in church does not read enough the bible to find out what are God's plan for Israel, must of the people in church hate Israel because they see Israel as the country who killed Jesus and the country who rejected him, must of the people in Xianity does not understand this, so I can asure you that this have nothing to do with church.

I think you heard about farkland Island (Islas Malvinas in spanish) those Island are in Argentina and England took them in the 80s there was a war bettween them but the strongest one took the islands, and what the UN did about that? There is a song that says "The winner takes it all" and that's the way we are living in this wolrd, Israel won thoses territories like England won the Farkland and Isarel should keep them until England return the Farkland Island, here is the story.

I don't doubt that the Church hasn't told you what you're saying. As you say some xians are anti-semitic. (Also some are very pro-Israel though.) Regardless, you personal faith is a big part of your opinion here:

Here is the prophecy

Ezekiel 21

Babylon, God's Sword of Judgment

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Jerusalem and preach against the sanctuary. Prophesy against the land of Israel 3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked. 4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'

6 "Therefore groan, son of man! Groan before them with broken heart and bitter grief. 7 And when they ask you, 'Why are you groaning?' you shall say, 'Because of the news that is coming. Every heart will melt and every hand go limp; every spirit will become faint and every knee become as weak as water.' It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Here is the prophecy and as you can see that is happening right now and it was written thousands of years ago.

I think you heard about farkland Island (Islas Malvinas in spanish) those Island are in Argentina and England took them in the 80s there was a war bettween them but the strongest one took the islands, and what the UN did about that? There is a song that says "The winner takes it all" and that's the way we are living in this wolrd, Israel won thoses territories like England won the Farkland and Isarel should keep them until England return the Farkland Island, here is the story.

I don't think you comparision is that useful here tbh. No one in Britain really cares about the Falklands or Northern Ireland or Gibraltar etc etc. As far as we're concerned the people there have the right to self-determine: if the majority want independence they are more than welcome to it (as it is they are just a drain on our economy). Israel needs to recognise the rights of the Palestinians and compromise like we have had to.

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That was the only way that Israel had to be created.

75% is not real mumber, if you take in count all recent wars in nthe world you will nothing that most of them had nothing to do with Israel, I will give you some examples, Argentina- England, Iraq-Iran, Urss-Afganithan, USA-Afganisthan, USA-Iraq, Iraq- Kwait, USA-Panama, Nicaragua war, USA-Korea, Usa-Vietnan, USa-Grenada and before Israel creation we had two WW.

Is a fact that we are going to have war as long as man is leaving in the earth, you see countries continuosly threatening its neighbours, like N Korea, Iran, India and Paskistan, China and Taiwan... list could be endless.

So Israel is not the problem here, Israel was destroyed by the Roman Impire and its people was forced to fleet to other countries that's all in the bible, is profecy and that prophecy said that Israel wil become a nation again in just one day and that happended, looks like you know the all story.

Here is the prophecy

Isaiah 66:8-10

8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?

Who has ever seen such things?

Can a country be born in a day

or a nation be brought forth in a moment?

Yet no sooner is Zion in labor

than she gives birth to her children.

9 Do I bring to the moment of birth

and not give delivery?" says the LORD.

"Do I close up the womb

when I bring to delivery?" says your God.

10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,

all you who love her;

rejoice greatly with her,

all you who mourn over her.

And here is the story

Declaration of Independence of the State of Israel

From the end of the World War I until 1948 the area of present day Jordan and Israel remained under the rule of the British Empire (see brief history). During this period the Jewish community organized itself to declare independence immediately upon termination of the British rule. Indeed, on May 14, 1948 (5th of Iyar, 5708), the day in which the British Mandate over Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the proclamation below, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel. Thus, the 5th of Iyar in Hebrew calendar is celebrated as the Independence Day of Israel. The new state of Israel was recognized that night by the United States and three days later by the USSR.

Its so easy for you to say all these until your children get killed in front of your eyes. Palestininans actually welcomed the Jews, look, unlike what most think, despite the fact that they were jews who were actually refugees, the predominant Muslims welcomed them whole heartedly, Muslims don't hate any religions or go about saying to kill any Non-Muslims. It was only when these refugees turned hostile and started ignoring the treaties the Palestinians started revolting, what the hell will you do when you see a bulldozer crushing your whole family under a building? Give back the land that they had agreed to let the palesteninas have when they signed the treaty, you will see the difference. Many of the attacks that the west faced from the middle-east was due to the ignorance Palestinians face, not because the west were non-muslims! I just corrected you, to be honest, I dont give a Sh#t about these political crap, Not that I am trying to escape, but its just that many of you think just from your side or what your elders say, For example, everyone has that feeling that Muslims Hate Non-Muslims, Just as one can type verses or sentences from the Holy Bible, I too can type and prove the fact that we are adviced(from the holy Qu-ran) not to hate or hurt a non-muslims, we are adviced to love everyone, but at the same time we are not adviced to keep quite when someone is coming to attack us.

Yeah, I know that, Its in Qu-ran too, that people will appear from no where and reclaim their land as if it were reserved for them, and these people will never be happy with the piece of land, till they keep expanding their territory killing people so that they never come to reclaim it...(its happening) but the fight for that land will continue till the end of days.

I had enough of this! :P

Edited by abbas_gear

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I think he's from the Dominican Republic, Cav.

Yes, that is my country, wich was invaded two times by USA and we had a war with Haiti who still claims that part of my country belongs to them, we share the same Island, most of the people there hate Haitians but I have some good friends from there, they have a very different culture, they are a very poor country, they croos the border to get better life, for some of them a better life is to work cutting sugarcane, a work that nobody from Dom. Rep. is willing to do, last year we had problem with them, because someone from that country killed a woman near the border and the people from RD got angry and start taking revenge on anyone the could find from there, to me was so sad to see that, because we got a lot of women killed by Dominican and nobody does anything to stop that but in this case, I don't know what happend, I think is the way they teach History in my country that got in my people's mind that Haitian are the bad one and RD's people the good one and that must be causing all this.

I think that this is the same problem in the middle east, people there is told that Isarel is the enemy and not only in school, you can here that from leaders, in the press, on the radio and tv, everywhere, they are conditioning people's mind to react in the way they want, muslims beleived that God is not on Israel's side anymore and that God transfered the kingdom to them because Isarel was killing the prophets, that makes Israel the fisrt point to be hated by them, they are also told that God will give them victory over any "Infidel" who is against them, that is why they can resist a victory from Israel or USA over them.

That is the problem here, is not the land, Looser Boy said "How about forcing out all Israelis to USA & preventing Middle-East people from coming to USA?" , well I said why Iran or some other of thoses countries don't take Palestinian to live in they countries, they have a lot unoccupied land in their own countries and Palestinians are less than Israelies and their cultures are very similar, but you know why they don't do it, because doing that will be the same as saying that Israel won and that their God was wrong, all this is just a religious problem, there are plenty of land for every country in this world but we are not willing to share and not willing to accept a defeat and i mean every side, for Israel giving the land back is a defeat and htey believe that that land is their beacuse they where there fisrt and God said that he will give that land to them*, but what they don't remember is that God asked them to be faithfull thing that they didn't do, and for Palestine that land belongs to them because they where there since Israel was taken out.

They don't really care what the UN says about this, there are people on both sides that won acept anything less than a complete victory.

*Joshua 1

The LORD Commands Joshua

1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, the LORD said to Joshua son of Nun, Moses' aide: 2 "Moses my servant is dead. Now then, you and all these people, get ready to cross the Jordan River into the land I am about to give to them

Edited by Schumikonen

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I don't doubt that the Church hasn't told you what you're saying. As you say some xians are anti-semitic. (Also some are very pro-Israel though.) Regardless, you personal faith is a big part of your opinion here:

Yes, my personal faith is a big part here as I believe in the bible as the word of God. And I would like the best for Israel and i would like the best for Arab people too, I have learned something from the bible and is this, God gave a promise to Abraham here it is:

Genesis 12

The Call of Abram

1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.

2 "I will make you into a great nation

and I will bless you;

I will make your name great,

and you will be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,

and whoever curses you I will curse;

and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you."

If I want to be blessed I have to blessed Abraham descendents but many people in Xianity think that only Israel are Abraham descendents and tehy are wrong, here is why:

Genesis 17

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

So I must take Arab people as Abraham descendents too, I would be doing wrong if I don't do it this way and in the end I can not wih the best for Israel and forget about the rest of Abraham descendents, I can be coursed for that.

There are many thing about Israel, specialy Jerusalem in the bible that concern to Xianity, one of thoses is that Jesus is not comimg back until the whole city is controled by Israel adn taht is why we want to see Israel taking control of their original land.

Luke 21

20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

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Its so easy for you to say all these until your children get killed in front of your eyes. Palestininans actually welcomed the Jews, look, unlike what most think, despite the fact that they were jews who were actually refugees, the predominant Muslims welcomed them whole heartedly, Muslims don't hate any religions or go about saying to kill any Non-Muslims. It was only when these refugees turned hostile and started ignoring the treaties the Palestinians started revolting, what the hell will you do when you see a bulldozer crushing your whole family under a building? Give back the land that they had agreed to let the palesteninas have when they signed the treaty, you will see the difference. Many of the attacks that the west faced from the middle-east was due to the ignorance Palestinians face, not because the west were non-muslims! I just corrected you, to be honest, I dont give a Sh#t about these political crap, Not that I am trying to escape, but its just that many of you think just from your side or what your elders say, For example, everyone has that feeling that Muslims Hate Non-Muslims, Just as one can type verses or sentences from the Holy Bible, I too can type and prove the fact that we are adviced(from the holy Qu-ran) not to hate or hurt a non-muslims, we are adviced to love everyone, but at the same time we are not adviced to keep quite when someone is coming to attack us.

Yeah, I know that, Its in Qu-ran too, that people will appear from no where and reclaim their land as if it were reserved for them, and these people will never be happy with the piece of land, till they keep expanding their territory killing people so that they never come to reclaim it...(its happening) but the fight for that land will continue till the end of days.

I had enough of this! :P

Let me tell you that you are complete right, in everything, I don;t know what is in the Qu-ran but you are right and i think you should read my last post, I don't have nothing against muslims, but like in Xianity there are extremist who are very dangerous, and this is the same in Israel, tehya re trying to get by using the weapons what God is not giving them, I teach this to people in my church and is that God is always in control and he doesn't need our help, he need us to aobey him and he will give us everithing we need, and this is true in my life, everytime I try to get something from my own living God outside I get in trouble, and Israel if they really believe in God like they say tehy should wait until God put everything in place, and probably this could be the same for palestinians or whoever believe in God.

Salm 46

10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

Matthew 6

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

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I don't think you comparision is that useful here tbh. No one in Britain really cares about the Falklands or Northern Ireland or Gibraltar etc etc. As far as we're concerned the people there have the right to self-determine: if the majority want independence they are more than welcome to it (as it is they are just a drain on our economy). Israel needs to recognise the rights of the Palestinians and compromise like we have had to.

I think that this is a leaders' problem here, they are not willing to yield and that is the main problem here, I am sure that most of the comom people in both side are looking foward to the end of the conflict, but there are some interest in both sides that makes this impossible right now.

About the Farkland who they really belongs to?

Why England when to a war for them even when they are so far?

Why killing people and sending their own people to die for them?

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Yes, that is my country, wich was invaded two times by USA

So if a more powerful country was to occupy it, and relegate you, your family, your friends to second class citizens, take away your homes, force you to use only certain roads and carry permits all the time, build their homes where yours used to be, you will naturally accept it with equanimity, because you feel all is fair in war?

I think that this is the same problem in the middle east, people there is told that Isarel is the enemy and not only in school,
Perhaps, how is it remotely relevant?
you can here that from leaders, in the press, on the radio and tv, everywhere, they are conditioning people's mind to react in the way they want, muslims beleived that God is not on Israel's side anymore and that God transfered the kingdom to them because Isarel was killing the prophets, that makes Israel the fisrt point to be hated by them, they are also told that God will give them victory over any "Infidel" who is against them, that is why they can resist a victory from Israel or USA over them.

Please PLEASE for heaven's sake try to look at the conflict for what it is, forget your religious leanings, forget the bible . Look at reality, it has nothing to do with erligion. One country and its people occupy land that is not theirs, and force the locals to live as second class citizens - if that. Taht is all there is to it. Do you think it is fair?

well I said why Iran or some other of thoses countries don't take Palestinian to live in they countries,
What would you say to a suggestion that all the Jews be moved to the Dominican republic, I am sure you have some empty land. Can you at least see that what I am saying is equivalent to what you said?
all this is just a religious problem

No sir it is a people problem. It has nothing to do with religion, and religion justifies nothing done by either side.

I think that this is a leaders' problem here, they are not willing to yield and that is the main problem here, I am sure that most of the comom people in both side are looking foward to the end of the conflict, but there are some interest in both sides that makes this impossible right now.

No it isn't. The people of Israel are complicit in this crime. Israel is no dictatorship, the people elect the government.

About the Farkland who they really belongs to?

How is that relevant?

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Let me tell you that you are complete right, in everything, I don;t know what is in the Qu-ran but you are right and i think you should read my last post, I don't have nothing against muslims, but like in Xianity there are extremist who are very dangerous, and this is the same in Israel, tehya re trying to get by using the weapons what God is not giving them, I teach this to people in my church and is that God is always in control and he doesn't need our help, he need us to aobey him and he will give us everithing we need, and this is true in my life, everytime I try to get something from my own living God outside I get in trouble, and Israel if they really believe in God like they say tehy should wait until God put everything in place, and probably this could be the same for palestinians or whoever believe in God.

Salm 46

10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

Matthew 6

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

There are many things that are very common between Qu-ran and Bible. You don't have to be a Muslim to read Qu-ran. The basic difference is that, though Muslims belive in Jesus as their Holy Prophet and do belive that he has been raised to heaven and will be back on the final day, we also belive in Prophets and Messengers who were born after him who spread the message of God, and we belive Mohamed(may peace be upon him) was the last prophet.

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There are many things that are very common between Qu-ran and Bible. You don't have to be a Muslim to read Qu-ran. The basic difference is that, though Muslims belive in Jesus as their Holy Prophet and do belive that he has been raised to heaven and will be back on the final day, we also belive in Prophets and Messengers who were born after him who spread the message of God, and we belive Mohamed(may peace be upon him) was the last prophet.

For us Jesus is the same God, not only a prophet, for us he is everything, there are many prophecies in the bible and to sustain this specialy in the Old Testament and we still have prophets and they are a very important part of the church today, but not every church who call themself christians are really christians and I think it is the same with Muslims beacuse I see how they kill each other in Iraq, and how different they are in Afganisthan and Iran, and when you see other Muslims countries like Qatar and Kwait you notice that there are big differences between them and that's why I think it is the same with Muslims.

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So if a more powerful country was to occupy it, and relegate you, your family, your friends to second class citizens, take away your homes, force you to use only certain roads and carry permits all the time, build their homes where yours used to be, you will naturally accept it with equanimity, because you feel all is fair in war?

I don't have any identity problem or issue, to me people is just people and I don't mind where are they from, I don't really feel that patriotic feeling that must people have, because I was born in a country that I didn't choose, I don't see any reason why I should give my life for a land that was first ocuppied by their original native, then by Spain in 1492, the next century was occupied by France, and a lot of slave for africa were brought to the Island to work, the dominican part was invaded by Haiti and then by USA in 1916 and in 1965 creating a mix of those people, now you can ask are we native? no, are we spanish? no, are we french? no, are we africans? no. are we haitians? no. are american? no, we are just the mixt of a lot of cultures adn in the end we are just people like everybody else in the world.

Answering your question is not easy because obviouly I am not living that situation but I have been in many other different bad situations and I always try to adapt myselt to the circunstance, What I can't control, I don't let it bother me.

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Please PLEASE for heaven's sake try to look at the conflict for what it is, forget your religious leanings, forget the bible . Look at reality, it has nothing to do with erligion. One country and its people occupy land that is not theirs, and force the locals to live as second class citizens - if that. Taht is all there is to it. Do you think it is fair?

Who decide who the land belongs too?

Israel was taken out their land by force, the land was their and they never sold it, or never gave it to anyone, it was their land from thousands years ago, and you know that, they survived as a nation without land trying to return to their original land one they, now where are the romans who took them out of there to respond for it? Should Italy to resolve that problem that they created before existing like they are today? Who is the owner of the land to decide who the land belongs to? Who gave the Jerusalem name to that city? If you ask me I will answer you that the land belongs to Israel.

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What would you say to a suggestion that all the Jews be moved to the Dominican republic, I am sure you have some empty land. Can you at least see that what I am saying is equivalent to what you said?

That wouldn't be a problem to me like I said before, to me countries are just names and nothing else, a countries can be today and not be tomorrow, there is not only a single reason to fight and die for a country, just look at the world map, take a new one and one from the year you were born a take a look at the diferences, you will notice what I am saying.

I am living in USA and I feel like I've been living here my whole life, I only missed my family and friends but I don't missed the land, there will always be land below my feet in every country that I could go, to me land is nothing, I am here because of my wife and kids, I had a good job in DR and took almost 10 years to my wife to make me change my mind, and almost everybody in DR wants to live here, that wasn't my dream, I live happy anywhere I can be, My happiness does not depend on a peace of land that I am going to leave here the day I die, the world will continues running and I am not going to waste my life fighting for land, the life is too short to waste it in that kind of problem.

India can invade my country and I wouldn't care much about that, all I can do it try totake my family out of there, if I can not do it I acept it as the God's will and then they will have to do the same that I do, try to deal with the situation the best way the can, because there is nothing else that we can do, if I got killed fighting for them, how can I continue helping them? there is just no sense in fighting for that.

and this is the same for Israel adn for Palestine non of them is doing that, Israel do not want to give the land back and Palestine wants the land back in any way, I can tell you this thinking this way, Israel would be happy giving the land to Palestine and Palestine would be happy in the land they still have, but the problem here is that now one wants to feel like defeated, they both want to end as the winner and meanwhile they are both loosing.

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Who decide who the land belongs too?

Israel was taken out their land by force, the land was their and they never sold it, or never gave it to anyone, it was their land from thousands years ago, and you know that, they survived as a nation without land trying to return to their original land one they, now where are the romans who took them out of there to respond for it? Should Italy to resolve that problem that they created before existing like they are today? Who is the owner of the land to decide who the land belongs to? Who gave the Jerusalem name to that city? If you ask me I will answer you that the land belongs to Israel.

So it is wise for an (native) Indian to go to the Empire State Building and ask them to vecate claiming that the land was once theirs? :unsure:

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For us Jesus is the same God, not only a prophet, for us he is everything, there are many prophecies in the bible and to sustain this specialy in the Old Testament and we still have prophets and they are a very important part of the church today, but not every church who call themself christians are really christians and I think it is the same with Muslims beacuse I see how they kill each other in Iraq, and how different they are in Afganisthan and Iran, and when you see other Muslims countries like Qatar and Kwait you notice that there are big differences between them and that's why I think it is the same with Muslims.

For us everything is the creation of God, Prophets were the messengers of God given extra-odinary powers and pure souls free of sins, we are not supposed to workship them, there are many instances in which the Important Prophets(Including Jesus and Mosses) have adviced us not to workship anything/anyone except the creator.

The main problem in Iraq is only politics, the basic difference in Shiites and Sunnis are really small, and there is nothing to make a fuss, its just politics that is happening, besides that some one is really following a divide and rule policy in that place.

Edited by abbas_gear

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So it is wise for an (native) Indian to go to the Empire State Building and ask them to vecate claiming that the land was once theirs? :unsure:

Definitely is not wise, but the indian would be saying the true and the only reason that he would not get the land back is because of the US power.

Beside that I think that Indians sold Manhattan to USA or England for a ridiculous prices, I am not sure about this but I heard some non oficial stories about that and even when it was a ridiculous price it's a sale anyway.

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For us everything is the creation of God, Prophets were the messengers of God given extra-odinary powers and pure souls free of sins, we are not supposed to workship them, there are many instances in which the Important Prophets(Including Jesus and Mosses) have adviced us not to workship anything/anyone except the creator.

You can see that power working today and you can have it too, that power is for the reach of anyone who want it, you can listen thousand of testimonies of people being healed by that power, and casting demons out of the people too, they speak and try to stay in the people but God's power is bigger and they have to leave is amazing the things you can see, I saw a leg growing I already posted that in other thread, that is the most amazing miracle I've seen with my own eyes, that day several people got their freedom they had demons but they can not resist Jesus's name, I could tell you a lot of things that God have done in my life like saving me two times that I was about two die, but it's better if you do you own research in this.

And once again you are right, everything was created by God and he is the only one that can be workship, no even an angel only the creator, I think you were right too when you say that the Bible and the Qu-ran have many points in comom.

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Why would anyone think that the Isrealis would use any kind of nuclear device? It would be suicide! Yes they probably posess these weapons, but it would be foolish to think they would use them as a 1st strike weapon. Just as they do now,nuclear weapons have technically been used as a deterent. If anyone believes Iran is securing nuclear energy as a power supply, then i suggest you buy Enron stock.

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What a preposterous lie. Palestinians are quite willing to negotiate and recognize Israel, what they want is an independent Palestine state, as given to them by the same UN resolution that created Israel. The same deal that various Arab countries have repeatedly offered Israel, but which Israle has refused - because it would involve Israel retreating to its legally defined borders, vacating settlements with hundreds of thousands of people living on land that belongs to Syria, Lebanon and Palestine, settlements which are illegal under international law.

It's not what they want, it is what they are willing to accept. They are willing to accept what is theirs under recognised international law, UN resolutions from 1967, Israel is not willing to accept that.

They are fighting, and that shouldn't surprise you. Take millions of people, starve them and imprison them in a small tract of land with no freedom, invade and kill people in it regularly, and be they Palestinians, Jews, Blacks, Indians, whatever, there will be social unrest, violence etc. It's not rocket science, poverty breeds all this. Poverty that has been created by the refusal of the world to recognise a legitimately elected Palestine government, by the destruction of infrastructure by Israel (Do you know Israel destroyed a power station that supplies almost half of the Gaza strip, that will take months to repair, that would mean people there would be without electricity for months. A power station that has no military role at all. Why did they do it?) Poverty that has been created by the blockade on Palestine - Palestine has no borders because they are blocked by Israel. They csannot trade with any other nation, they cannot import what they need.

Excellent points all Cav.

How about forcing out all Israelis to USA & preventing Middle-East people from coming to USA?

What an utterly offensive suggestion.... unless I very much misunderstand your point, which I certainly hope I do.

Here is the prophecy.....

Schumikonen, I certainly don't speak for everyone on this site, but I for one have had quite enough of your demagoguery.

Lets just leave the scriptures, religious texts, and prophecies out of the debate for the time being, alright? Whether you accept it or not, most people in the world do not share your belief in the bible, and give little or no credit to an argument that is premised upon its passages taken as literal truths.

Persist if you must, but you can ill afford to squander what little credibility you may have left.

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Definitely is not wise, but the indian would be saying the true and the only reason that he would not get the land back is because of the US power.

Beside that I think that Indians sold Manhattan to USA or England for a ridiculous prices, I am not sure about this but I heard some non oficial stories about that and even when it was a ridiculous price it's a sale anyway.

The problem is that you really havn't seen the the way Palestinans suffer, how they were massacred several times but Israel has got away, I heard in BBC once that Sharone was wanted for war crimes and talks slowly faded away. Hate to keep pointing out, but all I can say is that you need to look at it from other side too. Certain times I have felt the Palestinians were unfair, but only because Israelis pushed them to that point. Cav is right, they had always agreed to have peace, but they will never agree to keep quite until the land which they had agreed with U.N. resolution, some thing which Israel will never agree to, as if it has respected any of U.N's requests or words.

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