dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Ah well, if you bitch and moan and don't get anywhere.......copy them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Ah well, if you bitch and moan and don't get anywhere.......copy them. Indeed. If one rule is broken, and it doesn't get any FIArbitrary penalties, what the hell, break the rules too.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 McLaren where the ones complaining about them but because they where put on while in parc ferme more then being aerodynamically illegal. Other teams like Renault joined in being suspicious but it was McLaren that spear headed the campaign. Also very slim chance they would have adapted the covers in 2006 even if Ferrari started the season with them because they where designed with Bridgestone....which they are all on now so not surprising if other teams can throw them on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 well if this was the other way round the renault fans would be saying that ferrari cant think of their own ideas etc but then the renault fans are foooools Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 well if this was the other way round the renault fans would be saying that ferrari cant think of their own ideas etc but then the renault fans are foooools Total Eclipse Of The Heart is and always will be a Bonnier Tyler tune. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Yes, but do Robin Hood and William Tell and Ivanhoe and Lancelot envy you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Yes, but do Robin Hood and William Tell and Ivanhoe and Lancelot envy you? If they don't, they should. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Total Eclipse Of The Heart is and always will be a Bonnier Tyler tune. And not a very good one at that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sato 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 well if this was the other way round the renault fans would be saying that ferrari cant think of their own ideas etc but then the renault fans are foooools Like the time Ferrari tried mass dampers and realised they wouldn't work so had they're firends the FIA get them banned? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 And not a very good one at that... Agreed and Westlife aren't about to improve the situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 well if this was the other way round the renault fans would be saying that ferrari cant think of their own ideas etc but then the renault fans are foooools Why, thank you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 I just posted my thoughts on the wheel covers in the R27 thread after a comment from Kaiser. So here it is again, in the thread all about them wheel covers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah it is interesting, Ferrari is using them again on the F2007 and now Renault look like they will be using them. It will be interesting to see how many other teams adopt them once their new cars hit the track. They aid in getting rid of heat of the rear brakes and help with the airflow around the area apparently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Like the time Ferrari tried mass dampers and realised they wouldn't work so had they're firends the FIA get them banned? *giggles* got him there alright. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 I just posted my thoughts on the wheel covers in the R27 thread after a comment from Kaiser. So here it is again, in the thread all about them wheel covers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah it is interesting, Ferrari is using them again on the F2007 and now Renault look like they will be using them. It will be interesting to see how many other teams adopt them once their new cars hit the track. They aid in getting rid of heat of the rear brakes and help with the airflow around the area apparently. Hmm...they help with the aero and are on the wheel...which moves....moveable aero? Nahhhhhh. Help cool down the rear brakes? Seems to me the front brakes need cooling far more than the rears, so why aren't they on the fronts as well? Bad Puma, stop asking so many questions the FIA don't want to answer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Hmm...they help with the aero and are on the wheel...which moves....moveable aero? Nahhhhhh. Help cool down the rear brakes? Seems to me the front brakes need cooling far more than the rears, so why aren't they on the fronts as well? Bad Puma, stop asking so many questions the FIA don't want to answer... Nah the fronts are in direct stream and get plenty of cooling, the aero is desperatly trying to direct air towards the rear ones that are obstructed from the direct air stream. I would imagine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Nah the fronts are in direct stream and get plenty of cooling, the aero is desperatly trying to direct air towards the rear ones that are obstructed from the direct air stream. I would imagine. Certainly the airflow from the front tyres and the sidepod is messy when it gets to the rears, but there is still airflow there for cooling; enough for the rears that really don't get much use in a race, compared to the fronts. If this wheel cover was for the purpose of cooling, then the fronts are in more need of it than the rears (even with the clean air and the cooling ducts on the fronts). So why isn't in being used on the fronts? My opinion is that it wouldn't make much aerodynamic sense on the fronts as the airflow doesn't need cleaning up there. It needs cleaning up at the rear to make the diffuser work better, hence the dustbin covers on the rear. It's about aerodynamics, not brake-cooling (though brake-cooling may happen). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Certainly the airflow from the front tyres and the sidepod is messy when it gets to the rears, but there is still airflow there for cooling; enough for the rears that really don't get much use in a race, compared to the fronts. If this wheel cover was for the purpose of cooling, then the fronts are in more need of it than the rears (even with the clean air and the cooling ducts on the fronts). So why isn't in being used on the fronts? My opinion is that it wouldn't make much aerodynamic sense on the fronts as the airflow doesn't need cleaning up there. It needs cleaning up at the rear to make the diffuser work better, hence the dustbin covers on the rear. It's about aerodynamics, not brake-cooling (though brake-cooling may happen). Dont forget they are behind an engine revving upto 19k rpm producing alot of heat, front brakes would throw its used hot air back aswell. I'm thinking its more a way to efficienctly cool the rear brakes which are suffering more then the fronts which are on the limit of cooling but use size adjusted ducts (simpe option? certainly seems to work so they dont need to add more weight where its not essentially needed) Actually come to think of it I do not know what these covers actually achieve or how they do it, I skipped any information floating around at the height of there mystery....why am i making excuses for them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Ok, I'll accept that they reduce heat. I've just remembered that the current brakes, while prone to overheating, are devilishly hard to get heat into initially. Perhaps these aren't on the fronts to prevent too much cooling at the start of a session or race. None of that disproves the notion that the bin's primary function is to clean up the airflow at the rear of the car. Which makes them aero-devices. Which makes them moving aero-devices. Which makes them illegal. Renault's official 'line' about their TMDs was that it reduced wheel vibrations. The FIA deemed them to be devices which 'affected' the aerodynamics of the car. Why then did the FIA not disbelieve Ferrari's official 'line' than the bins reduce heat and rule that they, like the TMDs, affect the aerodynamics of the car? Like I said, these are equally as illegal as the TMDs, under the same logic, but whatever.....F1 isn't about everybody following consistant rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Like the time Ferrari tried mass dampers and realised they wouldn't work so had they're firends the FIA get them banned? I believe Mclaren was the one who complained about the Mass dampers.Anyway they were deemed illegal after further investigation and not because someone told the FIA to ban them.This is not the case with the wheel covers since other teams have already made complaints since last year but they were found to be legal.F1 is as much stretching the rules within the legal boundaries as much as it is developing technology.Those who adjust better and more quickly to the rules, using every "inch", win the race at the track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayStorm 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Well, they must be pretty good. Don't know if they'll work better on the Renault or not though. I would laugh if McLaren were successful in getting them banned though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Ok, I'll accept that they reduce heat. I've just remembered that the current brakes, while prone to overheating, are devilishly hard to get heat into initially. Perhaps these aren't on the fronts to prevent too much cooling at the start of a session or race.None of that disproves the notion that the bin's primary function is to clean up the airflow at the rear of the car. Which makes them aero-devices. Which makes them moving aero-devices. Which makes them illegal. Renault's official 'line' about their TMDs was that it reduced wheel vibrations. The FIA deemed them to be devices which 'affected' the aerodynamics of the car. Why then did the FIA not disbelieve Ferrari's official 'line' than the bins reduce heat and rule that they, like the TMDs, affect the aerodynamics of the car? Like I said, these are equally as illegal as the TMDs, under the same logic, but whatever.....F1 isn't about everybody following consistant rules. Ah, so much cynisism Mike. I work on the belief that such a device must be legal because has so much visual presence that it is potentially the subject of in depth scrutiny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ecapdeville 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 Ah well, if you bitch and moan and don't get anywhere... yes...you are completly right...poor renault, they didnt get anywhere... if works...use it, at least I dont think Ferrari could ban the same thing they use at the same time...a kind of protection. its a shame that Ferrari enginers couldnt make a working mass damper... they would be using it now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2007 yes...you are completly right...poor renault, they didnt get anywhere...if works...use it, at least I dont think Ferrari could ban the same thing they use at the same time...a kind of protection. its a shame that Ferrari enginers couldnt make a working mass damper... they would be using it now. I agree. It was a daft rule that banned flexible wings and TMDs. Both of those were Chapman-like innovations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 19, 2007 yes...you are completly right...poor renault, they didnt get anywhere... I only meant with complaining about the wheel covers. Of course their achievements were brilliant in '05 and '06. Good job too; if history is about to repeat itself, after two back to back titles and their star driver leaving, they will now have a barren spell for ten years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 19, 2007 I agree. It was a daft rule that banned flexible wings and TMDs. Both of those were Chapman-like innovations. And we need more of that sort of thinking. Unfortunately the ever tightening straitjacket of technical regulations is going to make such innovation more difficult. (The entire rule book of the 1950 F1 World Championship was : "Engines shall be no more than 1500cc supercharged, or 4500cc unsupercharged".) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
