Where Do We Stand

[Max Mosley 2]

I take flak every time I log on for being American. My country, that's filled with good, decent people, is trashed by this forum daily. Some members even go so far as to paint us Americans as ignorant, unsophisticated buffoons. I have to deal with this attitude from almost everyone here so what are you crying about? One member is acting a bit childish with outright insults towards your nation? Walk a ways in my shoes and you'll see how easy you've got it.

You Americans do make me laugh. If you search around you'll see most Brits paint their own countrymen as ignorant unsophisticated buffoons. (Now obviously they can't all be justified in saying that they're surrounded by less smart people, but that just proves the point really.) I'd be the first to lampoon the average Brit's mental capacity. But the fact that Americans find the equivalent to be very offensive just shows you the difference betwixt our cultures. There are good things about both, as I've said here many times, but in this case the european view is more realistic imho. The typical citizen in any country is an uneducated, unthinking dimwit. They may of course be thoroughly good and decent at the same time.

[cavallino 2]

C'mon, Cav, do you have to have rules governing every aspect of your life? Do you really need a constant nanny to keep the bad people away from you? Coming back to the subject of independence, you could demonstrate a bit of independence by dealing with this yourself without calling for help from all quarters.

Well you refuse to understand my point. I have said that free speech as policy would be acceptable to me, although I don't think it would be good for the forum, nor do I think that the forum owner would agree to that after what has happened in the past. If we are going to have rules, wouldn't it only be fair to have the same rules for everyone? As I have said, there may be members who can deal with this without responding. I am not one of them, neither are you as you well know, neither is the Rt. Hon. mod in question as we have seen in the past. So why are standards of behaviour expected of me, that aren't of other, or of the moderators themselves? I cannot retaliate, because the one time I dared to do that, I ended up with a ban, while the first offender went scot free. Most people here have their heads in the sand, offering me a nice little dune to bury my head in. If we pretend there is no problem, it will go away? The issue is that the mods are misusing their powers, and I haven't seen anyone credibly contradicting that, or I would respond.

I take flak every time I log on for being American. My country, that's filled with good, decent people, is trashed by this forum daily.

If you feel that your country is beyond criticism, I am afraid you are going to find just about every single web forum intolerable.

Some members even go so far as to paint us Americans as ignorant, unsophisticated buffoons.

That's still way short of proposing genocide isn't it?

I have to deal with this attitude from almost everyone here so what are you crying about?

Almost everyone? Come on that is a ridiculous overstatement.

One member is acting a bit childish with outright insults towards your nation? Walk a ways in my shoes and you'll see how easy you've got it.

It is not about one member. I canot repeat myself. Please do read my previouss posts even if they are rather long.

I refer you to this:

If you think I'm a sheep fine, I couldn't care less when all you can do is be negative towards every post.

I think you are alleging that the moderators are doing a good job, going by the gist of your post. I disagree. That is all.

Wasted time my friend...

Are you really so blind? Will you refuse to see that there is an issue, there are questions being asked of you? Would you care to respond instead of pretending that there is nothing to discuss?

While you are all on your high horse has anyone noticed that Ctrl has not posted in awhile? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm?

......nuff said..................

Correction, he hasn't posted since this thread was made, not since he made his posts - that was ages ago. Does that make you go hmmmmmmmm?

You really won't descend from that pedestal of high arrogance would you? Even if you have taken a decision, after you initially refused to, and after I had to go all this trouble, and after a lot of members said that some action needs to be taken, do you really think it absolves you? This isn't the only issue, it is just the last straw. Doing too little too late doesn't solve anything. Even then your post isn't an admission, you don't even say that you might have made a mistake earlier when you told me that no action would be taken. You won't even admit that you screwed up, as you haven't admitted to it numerous times in the past. And if you can't admit it, you can't even see that then there is absolutely no hope that you will ever learn from your mistakes. And that is why I think you are unfit to moderate this site.

Do you still pretend that you never asked to be made a mod, or can we let that particular piece of fiction rest now?

@Any Indians: it's not just you who were singled out. Off the top of my head I remember Paul, Andres, Kati and myself have all been cussed.

I agree, my apologies if I made it appear like that is the sole issue, though I have tried my best to clarify subsequently.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

OMG its almost 4am and ive only just got back in cos we are having a huge snowball fight outside lol. Its amazing. 99% of theuni is awake lol. Love it!

[goldjaazz 0]

Cav-

Mate!

I dont think anyone is going to do anything about it, it will be a shame to see you go as i have a great time debating with you. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is... if its worth it or not. i believe that your shouting upon deaf ears.

BTW (constructive critisism) i would also liked to point out that i feel that you have mis - interpreted some posts in the past as i feel that many of the other members have of yours.

As advice, i just ignore posts that you believe are personal attacks or racist.

In the end, We dont live in a perfect world, and life is unfair but we just have to learn to deal with it.

Please dont take this as a personal attack. Strictly a unbiased opinion.

[pumpdoc 2]

Do you still pretend that you never asked to be made a mod, or can we let that particular piece of fiction rest now?

I'd like you to prove it or apologise, I never asked, nor never applied.

I think what p**ses you off is that your rants are falling on deaf ears(mods), it's funny that you have such a hard-on for me, I'm flattered but I still won't sleep with you.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Changing topic again, its still snowing and i have jut got back in again from another snow fight. Loves it!

[Autumnpuma 0]

Well you refuse to understand my point. I have said that free speech as policy would be acceptable to me, although I don't think it would be good for the forum, nor do I think that the forum owner would agree to that after what has happened in the past. If we are going to have rules, wouldn't it only be fair to have the same rules for everyone? As I have said, there may be members who can deal with this without responding. I am not one of them, neither are you as you well know, neither is the Rt. Hon. mod in question as we have seen in the past. So why are standards of behaviour expected of me, that aren't of other, or of the moderators themselves? I cannot retaliate, because the one time I dared to do that, I ended up with a ban, while the first offender went scot free. Most people here have their heads in the sand, offering me a nice little dune to bury my head in. If we pretend there is no problem, it will go away? The issue is that the mods are misusing their powers, and I haven't seen anyone credibly contradicting that, or I would respond.

Alright, I take your points. I obviously have no problem with the forum's moderation. If you do, perhaps you could apply for the position? We are a few mods short at the moment. It might open your eyes a bit, but at the very least it will provide some balance for what you call 'unfair' moderating.

If you feel that your country is beyond criticism, I am afraid you are going to find just about every single web forum intolerable.

That's still way short of proposing genocide isn't it?

Now who's refusing to understand a point? I wasn't complaining, just trying to point out that you aren't the only one that deals with ctrl's type of attitude. You have just proved my point when you say every forum criticises America. If I can deal with it, I think you can too. Without running to the moderators.

As to your first sentence, do you feel your country or it's citizens are beyond criticism? Ctrl, and Bajo, have both criticised your nation and it's people, ctrl was more crude at it, but both were criticisms. I am trying my best to take the stuff about America in stride and I suggest you do the same concerning India and Indians. As to the genocide comment, I've seen comments accusing Americans of being murderers because of Iraq. True, an accusation of murder isn't in the same league as genocide, but it's enough to boil my blood.

It is not about one member. I canot repeat myself. Please do read my previouss posts even if they are rather long.

I accept this topic is making you a bit emotional, but let's cut down on the veiled insults. It's no better than the crude sorts ctrl has thrown about.

Tell you what, I've said my piece and I'll bow out. Despite the large number of posts I've made, I haven't been here that long. This is obviously something that has a bit of history and I am feeling like I don't know the whole story. Cav, I dislike many of your posts and alot of your world-view, but personally I would like you to figure out a way to fix this without leaving. You have a real passion for F1 and I like that. It would be a loss for this forum if you left.

[jaq 0]

Well you refuse to understand my point. I have said that free speech as policy would be acceptable to me, although I don't think it would be good for the forum, nor do I think that the forum owner would agree to that after what has happened in the past. If we are going to have rules, wouldn't it only be fair to have the same rules for everyone? As I have said, there may be members who can deal with this without responding. I am not one of them, neither are you as you well know, neither is the Rt. Hon. mod in question as we have seen in the past. So why are standards of behaviour expected of me, that aren't of other, or of the moderators themselves? I cannot retaliate, because the one time I dared to do that, I ended up with a ban, while the first offender went scot free. Most people here have their heads in the sand, offering me a nice little dune to bury my head in. If we pretend there is no problem, it will go away? The issue is that the mods are misusing their powers, and I haven't seen anyone credibly contradicting that, or I would respond.

If you feel that your country is beyond criticism, I am afraid you are going to find just about every single web forum intolerable.

That's still way short of proposing genocide isn't it?

Almost everyone? Come on that is a ridiculous overstatement.

It is not about one member. I canot repeat myself. Please do read my previouss posts even if they are rather long.

I think you are alleging that the moderators are doing a good job, going by the gist of your post. I disagree. That is all.

Are you really so blind? Will you refuse to see that there is an issue, there are questions being asked of you? Would you care to respond instead of pretending that there is nothing to discuss?

Correction, he hasn't posted since this thread was made, not since he made his posts - that was ages ago. Does that make you go hmmmmmmmm?

You really won't descend from that pedestal of high arrogance would you? Even if you have taken a decision, after you initially refused to, and after I had to go all this trouble, and after a lot of members said that some action needs to be taken, do you really think it absolves you? This isn't the only issue, it is just the last straw. Doing too little too late doesn't solve anything. Even then your post isn't an admission, you don't even say that you might have made a mistake earlier when you told me that no action would be taken. You won't even admit that you screwed up, as you haven't admitted to it numerous times in the past. And if you can't admit it, you can't even see that then there is absolutely no hope that you will ever learn from your mistakes. And that is why I think you are unfit to moderate this site.

Do you still pretend that you never asked to be made a mod, or can we let that particular piece of fiction rest now?

I agree, my apologies if I made it appear like that is the sole issue, though I have tried my best to clarify subsequently.

Cav, you can't fight ignorance, and if the high priests of this forum can not see the light, then we can only think that all comments are acceptable and no one should be banned. Racism has no right to be included in any forum, but it is a fact of life. We can only believe that these people who find it acceptable to write racial slurs as ignorant, and i use the term loosely, human beings. I totally agree with your arguement you have posted.i appluade the common sense you have demonstrated.

[Jean Todt 4]

While you are all on your high horse has anyone noticed that Ctrl has not posted in awhile? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm?

......nuff said..................

But you are never going to say what happened to ctrl, I hope I get an answer, has he been banned?

[jaq 0]

While you are all on your high horse has anyone noticed that Ctrl has not posted in awhile? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm?

......nuff said..................

An arrogant response, very typical of you!

.....nuff said.......

[Kay 0]

I think you are alleging that the moderators are doing a good job, going by the gist of your post. I disagree. That is all.

My post was actually quite neutral, nowhere did I say they were doing a good job and nowhere did I say they were doing a bad job along with mentioning no names, however if you are going to just take my posts in a negative light then there is little point me further posting in this thread.

[Wez 0]

While you are all on your high horse has anyone noticed that Ctrl has not posted in awhile? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm?

......nuff said..................

Ctrl is just bored of the predictable reactions of users he's given a working over too...

But, to all his fans (even the closet ones), DONT WORRY... He will be back

[pabloh20 1]

Ctrl is just bored of the predictable reactions of users he's given a working over too...

But, to all his fans (even the closet ones), DONT WORRY... He will be back

Interesting.......

[ecapdeville 0]

Cav, you can't fight ignorance, and if the high priests of this forum can not see the light, then we can only think that all comments are acceptable and no one should be banned. Racism has no right to be included in any forum, but it is a fact of life. We can only believe that these people who find it acceptable to write racial slurs as ignorant, and i use the term loosely, human beings. I totally agree with your arguement you have posted.i appluade the common sense you have demonstrated.

Look Cavallino, you have a Fan!

Where are you from jaq?

[cavallino 2]

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is... if its worth it or not.

That's why I have stuck on till now, but things have just gone too far

I'd like you to prove it or apologise, I never asked, nor never applied.

I did prove it. Read my posts at least even if you aren't going to bother to respond. So will you apologise?

I think what p**ses you off is that your rants are falling on deaf ears(mods), it's funny that you have such a hard-on for me, I'm flattered but I still won't sleep with you.

It's funny that you find this funny.

Alright, I take your points. I obviously have no problem with the forum's moderation. If you do, perhaps you could apply for the position? We are a few mods short at the moment. It might open your eyes a bit, but at the very least it will provide some balance for what you call 'unfair' moderating.

I doubt if many members or the owner would be amenable to that. Too much water under the bridge and all that. I would be willing to help out in any other way, and have offered to.

Now who's refusing to understand a point? I wasn't complaining, just trying to point out that you aren't the only one that deals with ctrl's type of attitude. You have just proved my point when you say every forum criticises America. If I can deal with it, I think you can too. Without running to the moderators.

I can deal with everything if the moderators would agree to leave my posts alone.

As to your first sentence, do you feel your country or it's citizens are beyond criticism? Ctrl, and Bajo, have both criticised your nation and it's people, ctrl was more crude at it, but both were criticisms.

I didn't take issue with his threads and never complained to a moderator about them..

I accept this topic is making you a bit emotional, but let's cut down on the veiled insults.

Sorry it wasn't intended as one, I just meant that I have said earlier in this thread that I am not opposed to allowing members to post waht they want if I can do the same.

Tell you what, I've said my piece and I'll bow out. Despite the large number of posts I've made, I haven't been here that long. This is obviously something that has a bit of history and I am feeling like I don't know the whole story.

That's true. A lot has happened over pm and emails too.

Cav, I dislike many of your posts and alot of your world-view, but personally I would like you to figure out a way to fix this without leaving. You have a real passion for F1 and I like that. It would be a loss for this forum if you left.

I am not sure what I'll do but the sentiment is appreciated, that goes for the others in this thread who have said similar things

My post was actually quite neutral, nowhere did I say they were doing a good job and nowhere did I say they were doing a bad job along with mentioning no names, however if you are going to just take my posts in a negative light then there is little point me further posting in this thread.

Your post did make a presumption in the first few lines that I feel is wrong. It was one of the more reasonable posst in the thread of course which is why I responded.

[Wez 0]

Look Cavallino, you have a Fan!

Where are you from jaq?

Take one guess

Although Ive only ever seen him chatting in Political discussions, apparently he supports Alonso, so he cant be all that bad!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

The snow is gone.

Stop arguing btw!

[pabloh20 1]

The one thing I can say is most definitely consistent on here, is the way people react or have reacted when derogatory comments are made about your own country. We have all done it, if we are honest, at one time or another and it does seem to be the thing that is consistent across all cultures and understandably so. Also, some topics are more emotive and draw more responses than others, that's also understandable, I think. There is something about another culture/person having a derogatory stereotypical view of your country that seems to stir the emotions disproportianately so. It seems less palatable than if somebody makes a personal attack on you, somehow. I guess your reaction also depends on if you think that person is just deliberately trying to wind you up or if you believe that they do actually have that point of view

Murray - yes Hermy has tried to have a go at me, but he soon realised that he was never going to rile me and he also found out that I could be much more of an annoying b@stard (no comments please ) than he could dream of and in fact ended up getting so wound up himself that he chucked his dummy out the pram. However, his comments to me were never along the same lines as his comments to Andres, Cav, Mock, etc, and were never going to have the same affect.

The thing is, Cav says it's not just about 1 member. I suppose it's easy to say Cav is over-reacting and, if I am honest, I suppose I thought he was/is over-reacting a little, not completely - please don't take offense at that, Cav, it's just my honest opinion. However, I have always got on with Cav even if/when I don't agree with him and we have always been polite to each other, etc, and I know he is an intelligent person. So when a few 'neutrals' say to him just to ignore the coments and carry on, yet he is still upset with something, then he obviously feels there really is a problem - presumably he's not doing it for the good of his health or to just be a pain in the backside. Yet, as Mike says, there seems to be a history here that not many people know about, so like Mike, I don't feel I can comment any further.

Now I don't want to step on any toes, or cause offense, as I pretty much get on with most people on here (I hope), but yes there has been a bias since I've been here. There has been a bias against India and America, probably slightly more so against India, in my opinion - now please let me stress, that is just my observation since I've been here, I pretty much joined not long after I found this site, so was not privvy to any historical threads. And before anybody suggests otherwise, I haven't the time to go searching through all the previous threads!

[pabloh20 1]

The snow is gone.

Stop arguing btw!

If only it were that simple, Ben!!

[pumpdoc 2]

The snow is gone.

Stop arguing btw!

Yes the snow is gone, but it's still cold in the mornings.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

I have a thermometer in me room and i put it on the window ledge outside and just checked it and its just 1 degree outside, it is fecking freezing, and I love it.

Oh and stop arguing. Enough is enough. Who cares if ctrl was being racist or not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to free speech so if you cant accept it dont read it, simple as!

[pabloh20 1]

Oh and stop arguing. Enough is enough. Who cares if ctrl was being racist or not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to free speech so if you cant accept it dont read it, simple as!

Well, to be fair, Ben, you got upset when people were suggesting you were an alcoholic. You knew it wasn't true, yet you reacted angrily to it and left. So I guess, when it's something we care about, then maybe it's a bit harder to just ignore it.

It's unnatural, I know, but there are some people on here whose opinion of me I care about and others, who I enjoy talking to, etc, but their opinion of me or on certain topics doesn't bother me, because their views are sufficiently different to mine - I guess it echoes your real friends in that sense, and yes I do have some, before somebody says it! . Maybe it's true of others on here, I don't know. For example, Ben, if I had called you an alcoholic then you probably would have told me where to go and not worried about it, but maybe there were people who said it whose opinion you did care about? I think it's the same with Cav - maybe it wasn't what and who said things, but more the reaction to it.

Anyway, excuse my ramblings - sleep deprived here!

[dribbler 6]

Is this thread still going on?

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Yes but being called something you are not is different from being called something you are. And yes although ctrl was being quite racist, cav and all the other indians here are coloured and are indian!

Anyway it doesnt matter, i still see no point in this argument!

[ecapdeville 0]

Oh no....no more gas to the fire....

you know what? this post is closed.

thank you.