Sexuality; What Are Your Views?

[Kay 0]

For all those saying sexuality is a choice / decision, I'm wondering if you think your gender identity (i.e. whether you are female or male) is a choice or whether it is natural?

Surely if characteristics that make you female / male are determined when you are born so is your sexuality?

[Max Mosley 2]

You know, I'm just thinking out loud here, but I actually have a lot of sympathy with the view that everyone has homosexual desires, which most of us tend to suppress, perhaps unknowingly.

(Btw I think your question is deep in some sense Kay. Clearly it might depend on one's conception of gender. The common sense answer is pretty obvious and follows from a common sense definition of gender.)

[monza gorilla 1]

Don't we all start out (during gestation) as female? My proctologist confirmed my lack of gayness, by the way, most conclusively..........

[jaq 0]

No reason really, unless it's someone you are in a relationship with. How on earth would a purely platonic relationship with anyone be affected by it. You think homosexuality is sick because everytime you hear the word, you have to bring up an image in your mind. Pretty pointless if you ask me, do you feel the need to construct the same image of every heterosexual couple you meet? Will you find every such image of every such person, young, old, fat, thin, short, tall whatever 'un-sick'. Really I don't undersatnd this compulsion of imagining the sexual proclivities of every person you meet. That must be a very disturbing way to live your life

Totally agree with you here! Glad to see you back.

[Kopite Girl 0]

[quote name='Schumikonen' post='169901' date='Feb 2 2007, 04:24 AM']I wouldn't be because I know what is the cause of the problem and how to cure it, but the person has to admit they have a problem and MUST want to be cured or healed, if they don't want to fix their problem or if they don't admit or recognize that they have a problem they will continue in the same problem, that is in the same context of man how likes to have sex with children, they see it as something normal but is not, I know men who are only interest in little girls ( I mean 9-10 years old and younger) and that is not normal, it is the same kind of sexual disorder but even when is a dsisorder that doesn't mean that you will feel unconfortable with it, talking with thoses men the say that they don't see any reason why they can not have sex with a child like that, they feel good about that but is not a normal situation that sometime got the child killed because the sex ofender do not want to be taken to jail and they can not control themselves, they had sex with the child and then they kill them to avoid being prosecuted, in gays is different beacuse they both agree in the act and they both have the same disorder and they don't cover one to another and now society is sayng that homosexuality is normal so, hey can do it in open sight and nobody care, but almost everybody cares about a man molesting a child and you can get in jail for that.

Now I want gay suppoters to tell me why we don't take the nature example in this case?

It is the nature who decide or not?

If we are going to take nature as a gide, we have to let girls have sex as soon as they have their first period, like nature do, is that the world you want and i ask to thoses who have daughters in here, are you willing to let you child have sex with anybody when she gets her fisrt mentruation?

I know that problaby we got people here who would like that but how "normal" is that? and keep in mind that animals don't get married.[/quote]

We don't let our daughters/sisters/younger girls have sex at such a younger age because [b]physically[/b] and [b]mentally[/b] they are way under-developed. All girls are different ages when they get their first menstrual cycle.

However, if two consenting males/females participate in a healthy loving relationship, and have a chance to raise a healthy, happy child rather than a child brought into this world to parents who couldn't give a damn, I know which family life I would opt for.

[Kay 0]

Don't we all start out (during gestation) as female? My proctologist confirmed my lack of gayness, by the way, most conclusively..........

Yes, everyone starts out as a female, but then the hormones effect whether you continue to do so, or whether you then start to develop as a male (when not enough hormones are produced then you start to have problems that seem to be on the increase). They've linked differences in males and females to a part of the brain (Sexually dimorphic nucleus) which is twice as big in men than women (no gloating ), which goes against the idea that you can nuture someone into either of the gender identities. When looking at the brains of males who underwent a sex change in adult life to become female, they had a sexually dimorphic nucleus the size a females should be, very interesting stuff. Therefore considering how little we still know about the brain no one should count out that sexuality can also be determined in a similar fashion.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Well that's hardly a problem for you Cav.

Too damn right! Funny how girls never believe us when we say that.

[monza gorilla 1]

Yes, everyone starts out as a female, but then the hormones effect whether you continue to do so, or whether you then start to develop as a male (when not enough hormones are produced then you start to have problems that seem to be on the increase). They've linked differences in males and females to a part of the brain (Sexually dimorphic nucleus) which is twice as big in men than women (no gloating ), which goes against the idea that you can nuture someone into either of the gender identities. When looking at the brains of males who underwent a sex change in adult life to become female, they had a sexually dimorphic nucleus the size a females should be, very interesting stuff. Therefore considering how little we still know about the brain no one should count out that sexuality can also be determined in a similar fashion.

Nicely put. I don't believe for a moment that sexuality is a conscious life choice. Not for one moment. You are who you are. (My significant other tells me that "sex change" is not an acceptable term these days - it's gender reassignment)

[Autumnpuma 0]

Yes, everyone starts out as a female, but then the hormones effect whether you continue to do so, or whether you then start to develop as a male (when not enough hormones are produced then you start to have problems that seem to be on the increase). They've linked differences in males and females to a part of the brain (Sexually dimorphic nucleus) which is twice as big in men than women (no gloating ), which goes against the idea that you can nuture someone into either of the gender identities. When looking at the brains of males who underwent a sex change in adult life to become female, they had a sexually dimorphic nucleus the size a females should be, very interesting stuff. Therefore considering how little we still know about the brain no one should count out that sexuality can also be determined in a similar fashion.

Fascinating. Did they have the female size before the operation or after? I'm assuming it developed in response to the massive estrogen injections you recieve prior to getting the gender re-assignment and not something that pre-existed. The former would indicate the power of hormones and the latter would indicate something rather more interesting...

[monza gorilla 1]

Why has Dr. Moreau suddenly appeared in my thoughts?

[Kay 0]

Fascinating. Did they have the female size before the operation or after? I'm assuming it developed in response to the massive estrogen injections you recieve prior to getting the gender re-assignment and not something that pre-existed. The former would indicate the power of hormones and the latter would indicate something rather more interesting...

Well seeing as looking at this nucleus is done through slicing the brain, I'm not sure the person was too keen on them looking before the operation. One of the sad twists of this is that you may find the answer to people born with no clear sex i.e. be able to assign them the sex to match their gender, yet you cannot find this until after they have lived.

If I remember back to the rats, they injected rats with hormones around birth and found it did change the nucleus, but I'm not sure whether it could change once the brain is fully formed. There was the case study in America of the identical twins when one of the boys at 22 months was reassigned their gender because of an accident with their penis (no reconstructive surgery avaliable then). They grew up with the necessary hormones being injected and appropriate help, however when they were 14, they were so depressed they were told the truth and decided they did want to live life as a male unfortunately they later committed suicide. So that gives evidence to suggest that the nucleus can't be changed after birth, neither does nuture play the bigger role and those who wish to reassign their gender in later life simply were born with a sex and gender that didn't correspond.

[Schumikonen 2]

I like you Schumikonen but your posts here make no sense. A minute ago you were saying that Nature should be our guide, and that because gay couples can't have kids naturally we shouldn't let them adopt, but now you're saying that gay sex is natural because it happens in the animal kingdom, and that therefore we shouldn't just do whatever happens naturally or in the animal kingdom.

Your point about paedophilia is not useful. The child can not reasonably consent to having sex and its rights must be protected. The reasons we are opposed to paedophilia are therefore completely absent in consensual gay sex.

I think you missed my point or my lack of english is not helping me in this.

I said that homosexuality is not natural and is against nature. Then I got some people answering that there are some homosexuality in animals and that is their guide to think that homosexuaity is natural, because of that I put that example about paedophilia because nature alud this in animals but that doesn't means that we have to do the same.

When i say that homosexuality is against nature I mean that you can take two of the biggest Islands in the world, let say, Madagascar and Australia and live thoses islands one to male homosexuals and the other one to lesbians, no female will be in the male homosexual island and no male will be in the lesbian island, I bet that they will be happy for a couple of years, but the next generation they will be history, they can not be sustain by nature itself, they will disappear because they can not reproduce by nature, so homosexuality is not a natural thing, it is against nature, lets do this and you will see that nature will not find its way this time because homosexuality is against nature.

I know that if to take a dog or a rooster as a pet and you don't let this animal satisfy its natural instinc, this animal will become sexualy sick, I talk about a rooster because I've seen roosters leaving as a pet in a house that when you throw a shoe or something this animal try to have sex with this inanimated object, this animal is sick because rooster are very sexaulty active animal, this animals have sex several time in a single hour, If you go to a place where rooster live freely you will notice that the rooster is the fisrt to get down the tree where they sleep and then he have sex with every hen who get down the tree, if you stop this animal from doing waht is supose to do this animal will get sick and will start having a wierd behavior like we see today in homosexuals.

[Schumikonen 2]

Yes, everyone starts out as a female, but then the hormones effect whether you continue to do so, or whether you then start to develop as a male (when not enough hormones are produced then you start to have problems that seem to be on the increase). They've linked differences in males and females to a part of the brain (Sexually dimorphic nucleus) which is twice as big in men than women (no gloating ), which goes against the idea that you can nuture someone into either of the gender identities. When looking at the brains of males who underwent a sex change in adult life to become female, they had a sexually dimorphic nucleus the size a females should be, very interesting stuff. Therefore considering how little we still know about the brain no one should count out that sexuality can also be determined in a similar fashion.

have you ever heard about the chromosomes and theses XX XY's thing and that this is carried out by spermatozoan so this means that when this spermatozoan gets into the body of the women they are already male or female, there is no such a sex change, that you and others are refering to, this only shows how people are able to believe any lie in order to sustain whatever they want to believe.

Read it here by yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatozoon

A spermatozoon or spermatozoan (pl. spermatozoa), from the ancient Greek σπέρμα (seed) and ζῷον (living being) and more commonly known as a sperm cell, is the haploid cell that is the male gamete. It joins an ovum to form a zygote. A zygote is a single cell, with a complete set of chromosomes, that normally develops into an embryo.

Sperm cells contribute half of the genetic information to the diploid offspring. In mammals, the sex of the offspring is determined by the sperm cells: a spermatozoon bearing a Y chromosome will lead to a male (XY) offspring, while one bearing an X chromosome will lead to a female (XX) offspring (the ovum always provides an X chromosome). Sperm cells were first observed by a student of Antoni van Leeuwenhoek in 1677.

Like you see here is all a lie you are male or female since you are a spermatozoan, no change is made but in the mind of people who want to support and eventualy get involved in sexual inmoralities like this.

[Schumikonen 2]

Don't we all start out (during gestation) as female? My proctologist confirmed my lack of gayness, by the way, most conclusively..........

The answer to your question is... no we don't.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

The answer to your question is... no we don't.

Actually it is true and is commonly known and has been proved in Science. TBH there is no wrong or right answer as nothing has become fact yet. However gay people do not chose to be gay, ask any gay man or woman, they will deny it and I deny it too. You don't chose anything, you are what you are, thus it is completely natural!

[Autumnpuma 0]

Well seeing as looking at this nucleus is done through slicing the brain, I'm not sure the person was too keen on them looking before the operation. One of the sad twists of this is that you may find the answer to people born with no clear sex i.e. be able to assign them the sex to match their gender, yet you cannot find this until after they have lived.

If I remember back to the rats, they injected rats with hormones around birth and found it did change the nucleus, but I'm not sure whether it could change once the brain is fully formed. There was the case study in America of the identical twins when one of the boys at 22 months was reassigned their gender because of an accident with their penis (no reconstructive surgery avaliable then). They grew up with the necessary hormones being injected and appropriate help, however when they were 14, they were so depressed they were told the truth and decided they did want to live life as a male unfortunately they later committed suicide. So that gives evidence to suggest that the nucleus can't be changed after birth, neither does nuture play the bigger role and those who wish to reassign their gender in later life simply were born with a sex and gender that didn't correspond.

Fascinating stuff....but isn't there any magnetic imaging technology that could see this part of the brain? I'm afraid my biology knowledge is quite low...it's been a while since college......

[Schumikonen 2]

Actually it is true and is commonly known and has been proved in Science. TBH there is no wrong or right answer as nothing has become fact yet. However gay people do not chose to be gay, ask any gay man or woman, they will deny it and I deny it too. You don't chose anything, you are what you are, thus it is completely natural!

No is not true, and what had been proved by science is what I posted about the chromosome X and Y wich are found in the spermatozoa, so how can be true what you are saying, I already posted a link where you can read something about that and from that point you can do your own research.

Don't believe me, believe the info that is in the link that I posted, if that info is true then the other one is wrong.

[Schumikonen 2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatozoon

Sperm cells contribute half of the genetic information to the diploid offspring. In mammals, the sex of the offspring is determined by the sperm cells: a spermatozoon bearing a Y chromosome will lead to a male (XY) offspring, while one bearing an X chromosome will lead to a female (XX) offspring (the ovum always provides an X chromosome). Sperm cells were first observed by a student of Antoni van Leeuwenhoek in 1677.

[Schumikonen 2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

The sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN) is a cluster of cells in the preoptic area of the hypothalamus, an area of the human brain and that of other mammals, which is controversially considered by some studies to play a key role in the sexual differentiation of the brain. This cluster of cells contains about twice as many cells in adult men compared to adult women (Swaab et al 1995).

[edit] Role in sexual development

At birth, the sexually dimorphic nucleus contains around 20% of the cells found at 24-48 months of age; after that age, a decrease in cell count occurs in females, but not males, causing the physical sexual differentiation of the brain (Swaab et al 1995). Initially some studies considered this area of the brain a likely candidate for neurological changes leading to homosexuality, but studies such as Swaab et al found no statistically significant difference in cell count between test groups of heterosexual and homosexual male adults.

How about this info?

Do you see that you want to find a reason to sustain homosexuality and because of that are willing to acept whatever lie you find in the way, even looking for difference in the brain and that lead to another question, How many kinds of brains are out there? in a gay couple, one man is doing the rol on the "female" and the other one is the "male", for lesbian is the same one is "female" and the other one is "male" are you telling me that humans got six different kind of brains

1- Normal brain for male heterosexual (this brain makes men to be interested in women)

2- Normal brain for female heterosexual (this brain makes women to be interested in men)

3- Abnormal brain for male gay-female (this brain makes male to be interested in male being them the female in the couple)

4- Abnormal brain for male gay-male (this brain makes male to be interested in male being them the male in the couple)

5- Abnormal brain for lesbian-female (this brain makes female to be interested in female being them the female in the couple)

6- Abnormal brain for lesbian-male (this brain makes female to be interested in female being them the male in the couple)

[Kay 0]

Fascinating stuff....but isn't there any magnetic imaging technology that could see this part of the brain? I'm afraid my biology knowledge is quite low...it's been a while since college......

Unfortunately no, hopefully with the rate science and technology is now growing we will one day soon develop a way of doing so.

[Kay 0]

have you ever heard about the chromosomes and theses XX XY's thing and that this is carried out by spermatozoan so this means that when this spermatozoan gets into the body of the women they are already male or female, there is no such a sex change, that you and others are refering to, this only shows how people are able to believe any lie in order to sustain whatever they want to believe.

Read it here by yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatozoon

A spermatozoon or spermatozoan (pl. spermatozoa), from the ancient Greek σπέρμα (seed) and ζῷον (living being) and more commonly known as a sperm cell, is the haploid cell that is the male gamete. It joins an ovum to form a zygote. A zygote is a single cell, with a complete set of chromosomes, that normally develops into an embryo.

Sperm cells contribute half of the genetic information to the diploid offspring. In mammals, the sex of the offspring is determined by the sperm cells: a spermatozoon bearing a Y chromosome will lead to a male (XY) offspring, while one bearing an X chromosome will lead to a female (XX) offspring (the ovum always provides an X chromosome). Sperm cells were first observed by a student of Antoni van Leeuwenhoek in 1677.

Like you see here is all a lie you are male or female since you are a spermatozoan, no change is made but in the mind of people who want to support and eventualy get involved in sexual inmoralities like this.

In the womb you begin life developing as a female until hormones kick in to change that if you are a male, that is not a lie but a fact and I am sorry if you wish to call those telling the truth liars, I have not told a lie in this thread and have been completely honest.

I know about chromosones and you can be born differently than XX or XY, you can have just one or two, so please do not treat me as if I do not know what I am talking about I perfectly understand this, however the SDN is believed to determine gender, chromosome's determine sex. Why do you believe that the two are always going to correspond? You could have someone with XX, but their SDN is the size of a mans.

[Kay 0]

The answer to your question is... no we don't.

Yes we do. We develop physically like a female until the correct hormones kick in. Our brain at this stage isn't female or male, so the wrong hormone could lead someone with a XX chromosone to have a male brain.

[Schumikonen 2]

In the womb you begin life developing as a female until hormones kick in to change that if you are a male, that is not a lie but a fact and I am sorry if you wish to call those telling the truth liars, I have not told a lie in this thread and have been completely honest.

I know about chromosones and you can be born differently than XX or XY, you can have just one or two, so please do not treat me as if I do not know what I am talking about I perfectly understand this, however the SDN is believed to determine gender, chromosome's determine sex. Why do you believe that the two are always going to correspond? You could have someone with XX, but their SDN is the size of a mans.

If you carefully rad the post #144 you will notice a very different story from this one, here is the link once again, this way you will see by yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

Is there any difference between gender and sex, beacuse gays actually fill the male gender box in avery form they are filling out, there is not a middle gender, like there is not a middle sex, you are what you are like someone said in here, and that means that you are a man or a woman, everything out of that is wrong, or maybe I was borned as an American even when I was borned in Dom. Rep. or maybe I really have blue eyes and blonde hair in my inside, but I am trapped in this brown body and black hair, i should start behaiving like an American, yes take a look a my brain and tell me if I am white in my inside, maybe I really speak english by nature instead of spanish, who knows it's all in the brain, from now on I am not a dominican anymore I declare myself American. If a gay can decide its gender then I can decide my race too, from now on call me "The blond" it doesn't matter what you see outside its all in the interior and I am starting to "feel" like a white man, I like bagels and the cold weather, I like snow, yes I was born as an American but it's just now that I realize it, I need to find a way to forget the spanish.

[Kay 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

The sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN) is a cluster of cells in the preoptic area of the hypothalamus, an area of the human brain and that of other mammals, which is controversially considered by some studies to play a key role in the sexual differentiation of the brain. This cluster of cells contains about twice as many cells in adult men compared to adult women (Swaab et al 1995).

[edit] Role in sexual development

At birth, the sexually dimorphic nucleus contains around 20% of the cells found at 24-48 months of age; after that age, a decrease in cell count occurs in females, but not males, causing the physical sexual differentiation of the brain (Swaab et al 1995). Initially some studies considered this area of the brain a likely candidate for neurological changes leading to homosexuality, but studies such as Swaab et al found no statistically significant difference in cell count between test groups of heterosexual and homosexual male adults.

How about this info?

Do you see that you want to find a reason to sustain homosexuality and because of that are willing to acept whatever lie you find in the way, even looking for difference in the brain and that lead to another question, How many kinds of brains are out there? in a gay couple, one man is doing the rol on the "female" and the other one is the "male", for lesbian is the same one is "female" and the other one is "male" are you telling me that humans got six different kind of brains

1- Normal brain for male heterosexual (this brain makes men to be interested in women)

2- Normal brain for female heterosexual (this brain makes women to be interested in men)

3- Abnormal brain for male gay-female (this brain makes male to be interested in male being them the female in the couple)

4- Abnormal brain for male gay-male (this brain makes male to be interested in male being them the male in the couple)

5- Abnormal brain for lesbian-female (this brain makes female to be interested in female being them the female in the couple)

6- Abnormal brain for lesbian-male (this brain makes female to be interested in female being them the male in the couple)

Perhaps you should read up on something before you write a silly post like this:

There are many disorders which are as a result of differences in the brain, there are more than six different 'types' of brain. Autism for instance (ASD) is believed to be the result of an 'extreme' male brain (though no root cause for autism has been found - in any field) by many people as the characteristics are male, but to an extreme. As a female with an autistic spectrum disorder are you claiming I do not exist? By your accounts I must have a normal female brain, but I'm afraid I can't disappear into thin air so you prove your theory.

Look at the dates, this is all recent research and most probably still on going as there is so much we do not know about the brain. Seeing as there is no cause of autism found yet by those researching I guess you are going to say that it is just in my mind because I want to be more 'male' than a 'normal' female.

Perhaps you need to open your mind and see how the issue of sexuality is interlinked with so many other issues. If our brains determine our gender and don't always determine it to the 'two' paths (strictly female or male) that match our sex, then it is also possible that our brains won't always determine our sexuality as attracted to the other sex.

[Kay 0]

If you carefully rad the post #144 you will notice a very different story from this one, here is the link once again, this way you will see by yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

Is there any difference between gender and sex, beacuse gays actually fill the male gender box in avery form they are filling out, there is not a middle gender, like there is not a middle sex, you are what you are like someone said in here, and that means that you are a man or a woman, everything out of that is wrong, or maybe I was borned as an American even when I was borned in Dom. Rep. or maybe I really have blue eyes and blonde hair in my inside, but I am trapped in this brown body and black hair, i should start behaiving like an American, yes take a look a my brain and tell me if I am white in my inside, maybe I really speak english by nature instead of spanish, who knows it's all in the brain, from now on I am not a dominican anymore I declare myself American. If a gay can decide its gender then I can decide my race too, from now on call me "The blond" it doesn't matter what you see outside its all in the interior and I am starting to "feel" like a white man, I like bagels and the cold weather, I like snow, yes I was born as an American but it's just now that I realize it, I need to find a way to forget the spanish.

What an idiotic post. Have you never heard of intersex babies when they are not physically either a female or a male? If you are born with both sets of genitles are you female or male?

How does that wikipedia link contradict me? It says what I have said - it determines your gender.