Sexuality; What Are Your Views?

[jaq 0]

To answer that I am going to give you an example, If you know someone with HIV and the science says that HIV has no cure but that person that you know and a few more get healed, what would you think about it? would you continue thinking that HIV has no cure?

I know that people can be cure from gayness, and I never say that they are lesser people that the others, when I said that they shouldn't have the same right I meant they shouldn't have the right to get marry. I can get you in touch with a lot of people who have been cured of homosexuality and that is in the bible too, God never wanted people to gay, the probem is taht when a person does not have God in his/her heart "something else" is going to fill that space where God should have been, there is no empty space, not even in the spiritual world.

I already post what the bible says about that and I am going to poste it again to show that God never wanted people to be gay, he even destroyed two cities because of that, Sodom and Gomorrah and the bible continualy speaks against homosexuality, not against gays because the bible provide an exit for people who are really willing to change, but you won't find that kind of help in every church but there are people who is really prepared for that and out there are the testimonies of a lot of people who were gays and lesbians and they are not anymore.

Look what the bible says and later I will get some testimonies for you.

1 Corinthians 6

7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God

You're certainly a rightous bible thumper.Are'nt you? I wonder if you can be cured!

[Schumikonen 2]

The Way Out

By Phil Hobizal

I thought I was the only dealing with homosexuality. My psycht told me to accept it. I didn't want to be gay, but there seemed no other choice.

I was raised in a small town outside of Portland, Oregon. Although our family was religious, I had no personal knowledge of God.

Dad was always working to support our family of five children. Unfortunately, his constant worries about money left him short-tempered and critical. He had little time to spend with us and as I grew older, I began to resent him. My mother, on the other hand, was loving and supportive. Because I rejected my father, she became my role model. I enjoyed the same things she did: art, music and cooking.

When I was seven, my brother's friend spent the night. He introduced me to sexual experimentation, and we kissed and hugged for hours. Because of my own need for love and acceptance, it felt good to be close and share this kind of intimacy.

Years went on. I didn't like the competition of sports, and always felt different from the other boys. Music became an escape, a way of proving myself. I enjoyed learning the piano and guitar.

Junior high school brought on a whole new set of pressures. I switched from a private to a public school. I didn't know anybody. My body began to change and I was viewed by the other students as a sissy.

I was very frightened and thoughts of suicide became more frequent. I had it all planned: a bottle of pills, the easy way out. But one day my science teacher made the remark, "Anyone who kills himself is a sissy." Oh no, not that, I thought. That would be the worst thing people could think of me. My only way of escape wasn't an option after all.

In my town, there were two types of students: the jocks and stoners. Not being sports-minded, I wasn't much of a jock. So being a stoner was my option, which meant being part of the drug scene.

There was no limit to what I'd try. I became totally rebellious. Inside I resented my mother, blaming her for the way I was. And I hated my Dad for his neglect. Drugs became my escape from the pain inside.

My first sexual encounter occurred with my best friend in high school. We were drunk and I took advantage of him. Although he allowed it, there was little reciprocation on his part. He wasn't homosexual and there was no mention of the incident afterwards.

This began a pattern for me with other guys. I would make sexual advances to them; later, they would say nothing. Fantasy and masturbation were also a frequent release for my sexual tension, but it was all very unfulfilling. To others I appeared to be a normal kid. I played in the local rock band and was senior class president. Outwardly I was friendly and happy, but inwardly I was wasting away.

As far as I knew, I was the only one around dealing with homosexuality. I had no one to talk to about it. I didn't want to be gay but there seemed to be no other choice.

After graduation, I moved out of my parents' home. The rock group kept me involved in wild parties and drugs. But I was careful not to "come out of the closet" as a homosexual. I was so dependent on what others thought of me that I couldn't risk their rejection. While my friends were having heterosexual experiences, I was abstaining. Inside I was consumed with homosexual lust. The tension was tearing me apart, and I began to wonder how long I could keep my sanity.

I finally broke down in tears and told my parents the dark secret that had plagued my life for so many years. It came as no surprise. They had suspected for some time, but didn't know what to do about it.

"Why don't you become a priest?" was my dad's response. I realized that was no answer, merely another escape. My parents agreed to pay for counseling, but I only went twice. The psychiatrist wanted me to accept my situation, and recommended group therapy. That wasn't the solution I needed.

My personal search for other answers began. But the more psychology books I read, the more confused I got. I knew that I was too undisciplined and insecure to change myself, so I began to study other possibilities, such as Eastern religions and hypnosis. Still no answers. Maybe there's no way out, I thought. I'll just have to accept it.

About this time I started a new job, and one of the guys at work became my friend. There was something different about Jim; he had a peace in his life that I wanted. He always talked about Jesus. Because I also had a religious background, we'd talk about God. But it soon became apparent that I didn't know Him the way Jim did. To me, God was distant and harsh, not a loving Father.

At the same time, the pull to dive headlong into the gay lifestyle was getting intense. A homosexual man I'd met through work was coming on to me. I had to make a choice: to follow my feelings, or to try this "Jesus" about whom I was hearing so many good things.

One night in October, 1978, I prayed desperately: "God, if You're real, please reveal yourself to me." As I slept, He spoke to me in a vivid dream, letting me know that He had a place for me to eat at His table [Rev. 3:20]. The next day I woke up with such a peace and joy that I wept. Somehow, I knew God was real, that He was the answer for which I'd been searching so long.

I knew God could change my sexual orientation, but little did I know the pain and upheaval still ahead. Satan wasn't letting go of me that easy.

Jim and his friends gave me much-needed love and attention. At first, they knew nothing of my homosexual struggles. I wanted so much to be accepted that I wouldn't risk being vulnerable with them. Jim suggested that I try out a church he'd heard about, which had many young people out of the same hippie background from which I had come. I was afraid, but went and sat at the back of the church by myself. When the service was over, I quickly left.

The people were very friendly, and gradually I began hanging around after church a little longer. The leadership eventually asked me to be an usher, and I became active in different aspects of the church life. This kept me busy and helped me avoid too much focus on my homosexual feelings.

I destroyed anything in my house related to homosexuality, and devoted myself to prayer and reading God's Word. I didn't hang around with my old friends. To them, I had become a "Jesus freak." I prayed for new friends and as I became more involved in church life, I began to establish lasting friendships. The key was being willing to be vulnerable, to feel awkward at times, but still persevere.

Within months of my conversion, my father developed a problem that required a serious operation. We were told he had a 50/50 chance of living. For the first time I began to experience feelings of love toward my dad and I wept at the thought of losing him. I forgave him for all he had done to me. The healing process had begun.

After about a year, I knew I needed the support of my church to gain more victory over my past. Then came an anonymous phone call one night from someone threatening to beat me up because I was a "queer." I went and told my pastor about my background. He was very supportive, and asked me to share my testimony the next Sunday in church!

I was scared to death, but God gave me the courage to get it out. If I'm really going to be a part of this church, I thought, they need to know me for who I am. The church responded very positively; their acceptance helped me to forgive myself. God's healing was continuing.

The Lord did many other things in the years to come. He helped me to overcome fantasy and masturbation problems. The habit of masturbation was difficult. Although it provided momentary pleasure, afterward I'd fall into depression, with Satan telling me what a rotten Christian I was. I remember many nights of weeping in defeat.

James 4:7 was helpful: "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." I would acknowledge my weakness to God and tell Him of my love and deep desire to please Him. As I resisted in God's strength, I got increasing victory.

The Lord also helped me to forgive men and women who had hurt me in my life. I was being changed emotionally and spiritually. Freedom from homosexuality was becoming a reality.

But two years into my Christian walk, I fell into homosexuality again. I'd secretly been holding onto desires for some homosexual activities I'd never experienced. I began to isolate myself and then a gay neighbor invited me over for dinner. After some wine, my pent-up desires came rushing to the surface. But the experience was totally unfulfilling; I had a sense of God's presence that could not be denied.

I ended up repenting on the spot. I apologized to the guy and left. I was able to confess to a dear friend and he helped in restoring me. I knew I had opened the door to much spiritual attack, but I also learned more about the grace and mercy of the Lord. I have never fallen since that day.

About five years after coming out of homosexuality, I joined an ex-gay support group here in Portland. Since the beginning of my journey, I had been in touch with Love In Action and they let me know of the group. I found out at the first meeting how valuable my testimony was. I could encourage others because of what God had taken me through. It felt good to help them take a stand in their lives and experience God's love and healing.

God was also faithful to provide a lovely woman to be my wife, and we now have four children. I first met Patty when we were both working on a Christian musical. Our relationship began as friends with a common goal. We soon grew close and it became evident to everyone that God was bringing us together in marriage. Our courtship was one of the happiest times of my life.

The restoration of the years of despair have been great and I feel I've received far more than I deserve. But that's just how God is. He's loving and kind, a Father to model your life after. He's shown me real love.

For years, I looked for an escape from my unhappiness and sexual struggles. But I've found the way out. His Name is Jesus.

Phil Hobizal is director of "The Portland Fellowship," in Portland, Oregon. Distributed by Love In Action, PO Box 753307, Memphis, TN 38175-3307; 901/542-0250

[Schumikonen 2]

when I talked about disorder I never said that it was a physical disorder but it is a disoder anyway right now I can not say more about that because most of you are not ready for that, I am not saying that you are less than me or that I am more than you, I never would do that, I am just saying that you need more info about it, you need a previous info to get to the point to understand this, but yes can be cured, gays can be healed, there are differents ways some are faster than others and some are more efective than other, and believe me that I was in the point that some of you are right now, so I understand your points of views, but that doesn't means that I have to agree, I prefer to tell the truth even when you can get mad at me, but I know that is always better to say the truth even when I can be rejected for that, you need the truth, no matter if you acept it or not.

Murray, gays are getting healed and that is what is important right now, that there is hope for thoses who want to seek for help, there is a lot of help out there, no matter what you believe you can get in touch with theses peole and see if they and their story are real.

[jaq 0]

when I talked about disorder I never said that it was a physical disorder but it is a disoder anyway right now I can not say more about that because most of you are not ready for that, I am not saying that you are less than me or that I am more than you, I never would do that, I am just saying that you need more info about it, you need a previous info to get to the point to understand this, but yes can be cured, gays can be healed, there are differents ways some are faster than others and some are more efective than other, and believe me that I was in the point that some of you are right now, so I understand your points of views, but that doesn't means that I have to agree, I prefer to tell the truth even when you can get mad at me, but I know that is always better to say the truth even when I can be rejected for that, you need the truth, no matter if you acept it or not.

Murray, gays are getting healed and that is what is important right now, that there is hope for thoses who want to seek for help, there is a lot of help out there, no matter what you believe you can get in touch with theses peole and see if they and their story are real.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha! You are hilarious. How can you cure somethiing that is natural, and i'd like you to prove that homosexuality is a disorder, illness, or whatever you want to call it. Please use facts that are proven and not opinions.

[jaq 0]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha! You are hilarious. How can you cure somethiing that is natural, and i'd like you to prove that homosexuality is a disorder, illness, or whatever you want to call it. Please use facts that are proven and not opinions.

I guess you are unable to offer any facts to support your arguement that homosexuals can be turned into heterosexuals. So i would suggest you stop your bible thumping and research the topic before bringing the falsehoods of the bible into these forums. Remember all the scriptures you presented were your interpetations.

[HotRod 0]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha! You are hilarious. How can you cure somethiing that is natural, and i'd like you to prove that homosexuality is a disorder, illness, or whatever you want to call it. Please use facts that are proven and not opinions.

Hey jaq. Me liking you. You also making your opinions sounding like facts no. Is being gay a natural a proven fact or is minority opinion? No proven is natural. If one is a human but me giving you lots of strong evidence to saying the human is no human but donkey ...you are still human no. Me getting 1000 peoples to calling the huiman a donkey ...but no making human donkey, human still being human. But to the 1000 peoples the human being donkey. Gay not proven to being natural. Gay not proven to being unnatural. But there only being one truth and some believing bible to being truth with no opinions with no compromising. Now bible saying gay is sin. To that some, gay is unnatural and is being fact for those peoples because believing bible is facts. Now Christians knowing bible is written by men but inspired/directed/intructed by Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God to write the things of bible. When becomeing Christians we trusting God with 100% because when you becoming Christian is like scales falling from the eyes ...was being bling but now seeing. When you saying gay is being natural, you insulting Christians God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You saying his faith is wrong and everything he believing is wrong. Now this is the difference between 'our opinions' and your opinions. I sorry, my english not being very good but I try hard.

Bye

[HotRod 0]

OK I see. So your opinion (that homosexuality is a "disorder") can not be substantiated independently of the Bible.

Can one counting how many monkeys in the mirror if one not having eyes. Now believing bible stopping us making stupid assumptions. But you not knowing because you no having eyes.

[HotRod 0]

A truer statement would be:

The nicest of people can have the worst things happen to them.

I used to believe, then I got shat on from a great height and I'm no short arse.

Now you no 'short arse', is your opinion no.

I wasn't aware the bible could speak, no?

This is figure of speech. You not taking this literally, no

And I'm telling you your opinion is not right, otherwise it would be called fact, no?

One day my opinion becoming fact in your head. My 'opinion' is still in its potential state.

Seeing as it can be interpreted to say whatever you want to, because there is no context, yes.

If you knowing bible like I knowing bible, if you studying bible like I studying bible, it will be washing bulls##t from somebody's eyes, no.

[HotRod 0]

Kay has hit the nail right on the head. I'm not religious, never have been, never will be. Hot Rod, the Bible is not fact, and what it teaches is quite a lot of racism and discrimination despite also claiming everyone is equal and love thy neighbour? It's just full of contradictions.

Now you Jenson_Rules, my friend, have been misinformed. What bible you reading? Who has been telling you all the lies? You reading Bible from Genesis to the Maps will stop what you saying sounding like bulls##t. When you make argument you must be having backbone, no.

[Schumikonen 2]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha! You are hilarious. How can you cure somethiing that is natural, and i'd like you to prove that homosexuality is a disorder, illness, or whatever you want to call it. Please use facts that are proven and not opinions.

You are a proven fact to me right now, I said that you need info, and here you are to prove everybody that what I just said is right, I can build something but I need some tools and material to do it, I have the tool but there is not enough material in your brain to do that.

John 161:2"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

Got it?

[HotRod 0]

i havent read all 7 pages of this topic, only just placed my vote for the first time. Being straight, I would have no idea what its like to feel homosexual feelings but I wouldnt agree that you have a choice - as I'm aware, most gay people cant help the way they feel.

As for equal rights, and assuming this is about marriage, is there a good reason why gays shouldnt be able to be married? People marry to commit themselves to each other for life and publically show that commitment. Just because its not in line with the bible, why should people be denied that right?

As for adoption, i would also agree that gays and lesbians should have that right also. Having two caring, loving fathers is better than having 1 loving father and a crap mother. Adoption gives a young child a better life. Adoption from a gay couple is a lot better way for a child to live than in an orphanage, so it should be encouraged. Again, i expect its only the religious folk who disagree.

I feel sorry for those who feel so strongly about the bible that they let it restrict their lives so much with all its 'rules'

Hey jemstride. You must reading all 7 pages first and then coming back, OK. Maybe then you sounding intelligent.

[Schumikonen 2]

I guess you are unable to offer any facts to support your arguement that homosexuals can be turned into heterosexuals. So i would suggest you stop your bible thumping and research the topic before bringing the falsehoods of the bible into these forums. Remember all the scriptures you presented were your interpetations.

There are some adresses in the post and in the link, why don't you get in touch with them, instead of calling this falsehoods, did you do your research on this to call it like that?, why don't you preach with the example and do it first?

[HotRod 0]

I worry for a human race that's still guided by superstition.

Mocking God and paying the price is no superstition my friend. The Word Of God is saying is dangerous to fall in the hands of an angry God. Now for me this is truth, you believing otherwise is superstition for me, no.

[Kay 0]

Now you no 'short arse', is your opinion no.

No it isn't an opinion, because height is a known rather than God which is an unknown and you missed the whole point. Something bad doesn't happen because you 'disrespect' God, it happens because there is evil in this world. And if God created the world, he created evil, he created diseases like cancer which kill INNOCENT people so if you are going to suggest people deserve what they get you can get right out of here.

This is figure of speech. You not taking this literally, no

Exactly, and what is the Bible exactly? Do you take it literally or is it just a figure of speech? You can interpret it to say whatever you want and you need to accept that.

One day my opinion becoming fact in your head. My 'opinion' is still in its potential state.

No, thankfully, I'll never look down on people just because of their sexuality and I'll never mislead people into believing I'm right when I know it is just a state of opinion. It is very low to get people to believe God through fear of what will happen otherwise, that has reflections of Stalin in it.

If you knowing bible like I knowing bible, if you studying bible like I studying bible, it will be washing bulls##t from somebody's eyes, no.

I'd rather study life, study reality. Reality says there is evil and now believing in something outside of this world will protect you from that evil. Lots of that evil use God as being on their side to carry out great evils. You need to open your eyes to reality and see what this world really does to its innocents.

[Kay 0]

Mocking God and paying the price is no superstition my friend. The Word Of God is saying is dangerous to fall in the hands of an angry God. Now for me this is truth, you believing otherwise is superstition for me, no.

Making people believe something through fear is no good quality, no.

[HotRod 0]

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Here's some 'tea'. Drink al you want. It's free ...:

God's View of Homosexuality, Part 1

Selected Scriptures

You are well aware, I know, by now that the subject for this morning is the subject of the divine perspective or the divine view of homosexuality. We want to look at this particular issue from the eyes of God, and thus through the Word of God.

I suppose there should be some justification for isolating a sin like this and preaching on it when there are so many sins which are equally heinous to God. The answer to those who might wonder why we would isolate this one should be apparent, but just in case it isn

[HotRod 0]

Now you no 'short arse', is your opinion no.

No it isn't an opinion, because height is a known rather than God which is an unknown and you missed the whole point. Something bad doesn't happen because you 'disrespect' God, it happens because there is evil in this world. And if God created the world, he created evil, he created diseases like cancer which kill INNOCENT people so if you are going to suggest people deserve what they get you can get right out of here.

This is figure of speech. You not taking this literally, no

Exactly, and what is the Bible exactly? Do you take it literally or is it just a figure of speech? You can interpret it to say whatever you want and you need to accept that.

One day my opinion becoming fact in your head. My 'opinion' is still in its potential state.

No, thankfully, I'll never look down on people just because of their sexuality and I'll never mislead people into believing I'm right when I know it is just a state of opinion. It is very low to get people to believe God through fear of what will happen otherwise, that has reflections of Stalin in it.

If you knowing bible like I knowing bible, if you studying bible like I studying bible, it will be washing bulls##t from somebody's eyes, no.

I'd rather study life, study reality. Reality says there is evil and now believing in something outside of this world will protect you from that evil. Lots of that evil use God as being on their side to carry out great evils. You need to open your eyes to reality and see what this world really does to its innocents.

Behind every argument is someone's ignorance.

Louis D. Brandeis (1856 - 1941)

[Kay 0]

Now you Jenson_Rules, my friend, have been misinformed. What bible you reading? Who has been telling you all the lies? You reading Bible from Genesis to the Maps will stop what you saying sounding like bulls##t. When you make argument you must be having backbone, no.

What the backbone that in the UK led to many people dying through starvation and disease? They used God to justify the deaths of many Irish and because for so long people were brainwashed into fearing God they believed it. I'd think before you tell people what to believe, in this day and age, it only is used as manipulation to justify something for selfish ends.

I have a clear backbone. It's called equality. It also is backed up by research into the brain, research which shows that it (brain) determines our gender identity and so may also determine our sexuality, therefore if God creates us, he creates us the way he wants to.

So many people in religion use their status to inflict pain on others, mainly children. They brainwash children into thinking that it is what God wants them to. Instead of trying to convert people to your religion, you should be more accepting of the free will we have and that some here may have good reason not to believe. I choose not to believe in God, because God never helped me when I needed it and when I believed, he let my family and I suffer when we had done no wrong.

Why are you so keen to inflict fear on people?

[Kay 0]

Behind every argument is someone's ignorance.

Louis D. Brandeis (1856 - 1941)

Congratulations, you can read my signature. However this is more appropriate:

Behind every argument is someone's refusal to answer questions.

And if you can't answer them, then I shall assume that is because you have no answers, because you actually know yourself you can not be 100% certain in being correct.

[HotRod 0]

Hey kayzee, please read my post. It's long but please read with neutral perspective, please...

I liking you.

[Kay 0]

Hey kayzee, please read my post. It's long but please read with neutral perspective, please...

I liking you.

After you've answered each of the questions I've previous asked I shall, but before, no.

[jaq 0]

You are a proven fact to me right now, I said that you need info, and here you are to prove everybody that what I just said is right, I can build something but I need some tools and material to do it, I have the tool but there is not enough material in your brain to do that.

John 161:2"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

Got it?

Again you provide no facts other than your religous retoric, also your comment makes no sense just as your opinion on the topic of homosexuality. Please provide facts to support your opinion and not the bible. Remember the passages you have qouted are based on your opinion in what they mean, just like any other preacher's.

[jaq 0]

There are some adresses in the post and in the link, why don't you get in touch with them, instead of calling this falsehoods, did you do your research on this to call it like that?, why don't you preach with the example and do it first?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!! You continue to avoid the issue you posed. You said that homosexuals have been cured of their sexuality. I asked you to provide facts and not opinion or your bible thumping words. Give us the facts you have to support your opinion. We're waiting!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

I think I may have to have sex with a man tonight and sin away and refuse to allow myself to be cured. Sounds like fun!

I'm sorry but schumikonen you really do speak the biggest amount of Sh#t I have ever heard in my life.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Hey jemstride. You must reading all 7 pages first and then coming back, OK. Maybe then you sounding intelligent.

excuse me? why does my post not sound intelligent?

maybe you should read up on english grammar and you would sound a bit more intelligent?

Its "maybe then you MIGHT SOUND intelligent", not "sounding" ok