Sexuality; What Are Your Views?

[pabloh20 1]

Even being an atheist, I do believe in something.

I believe I will have another drink.

See, my good friend Andres is an atheist and I know he is an atheist, yet he's still my good friend. And if the world was full of more Andres', then it would be a better place....obviously the women wouldn't be safe, but it would be a better place!!

[Quiet One 15]

See, my good friend Andres is an atheist and I know he is an atheist, yet he's still my good friend. And if the world was full of more Andres', then it would be a better place....obviously the women wouldn't be safe, but it would be a better place!!

Jokes aside, as you may see from my usually silly behavior, I don't really expect much good to come from these kind of threads. God is a matter of faith, something we all knew since the beggining so it's kind of useless to argue in circles between believers and non-believers. On the other hand, I one of my few metaphysical needs is the one of harmony and tolerance withut compromising diversity. That is why I value friendships like yours, Paul. Being able to accept the other with his/her differences and ultimately find common grounds is something our world is in dire need of. So, even if your words will never turn me into a believer, they at least rekindle my faith in humanity!

Zealots, like Russ said, are out of my equation, whatever faction they belong to.

Now, let's all go to a pub and rejoice! (I sound as if I'm drunk...believe me I'm not...I just feel optimistic today, hope it won't last for long though)

[Max Mosley 2]

if the world was full of more Andres', then it would be a better place

Amen to that.

I thought you weren't a Christian any more any way Paul?

[Max Mosley 2]

Well, I think there are always pointers, it's up to you whether you believe them or not, or be guided by them. Knowing your situation, Murray, you have had the pointers as it were, but you have chosen not to follow them......or should I say, not followed them yet! Your conscience has been pricked, I believe, but you have chosen to go a different way........ As I said, nobody claims it's easy or to have all the answers, well certainly not on this forum!!

Yeah but I have looked at all the pointers and genuinely don't see enough evidence in favour of religion. If it's the case that there is only inconclusive evidence then either Christianity is inconsistent or it doesn't matter whether anyone believes or not, they will still get to Heaven.

I would have to disagree, speaking from my own personal experiences, Murray, I just don't think it's a generalisation that's possible to make. Also, for every preacher you think is materialistic, there will be another who works in the worst ghetto, or is a missionary in some inhospitable circumstances, etc, etc.

It's statistically true that religious people are poorer, suffer more etc on average. Just consider who the most religious people in America are. Or where the most religious countries are.

[Quiet One 15]

Amen to that.

I thought you weren't a Christian any more any way Paul?

If the world was full of more people like me, shampoo companies will go bankrupt! Total economic chaos! Millions of people will be unemployed! In desperation, people will look for a savior and will find it in Ykick. He would then be given absolute power to confront the world crisis. He would turn into a dictator and declare a mandatory plastic surgery on everybody so we all would look like David Coulthard. Do you really think that's a nice perspective?

[Max Mosley 2]

Jokes aside, as you may see from my usually silly behavior, I don't really expect much good to come from these kind of threads. God is a matter of faith, something we all knew since the beggining so it's kind of useless to argue in circles between believers and non-believers. On the other hand, I one of my few metaphysical needs is the one of harmony and tolerance withut compromising diversity. That is why I value friendships like yours, Paul. Being able to accept the other with his/her differences and ultimately find common grounds is something our world is in dire need of. So, even if your words will never turn me into a believer, they at least rekindle my faith in humanity!

Zealots, like Russ said, are out of my equation, whatever faction they belong to.

Now, let's all go to a pub and rejoice! (I sound as if I'm drunk...believe me I'm not...I just feel optimistic today, hope it won't last for long though)

I guess you're right really as usual.

[Max Mosley 2]

If the world was full of more people like me, shampoo companies will go bankrupt! Total economic chaos! Millions of people will be unemployed! In desperation, people will look for a savior and will find it in Ykick. He would then be given absolute power to confront the world crisis. He would turn into a dictator and declare a mandatory plastic surgery on everybody so we all would look like David Coulthard. Do you really think that's a nice perspective?

Yeah. I was just being polite Andres. If there were more of you all the girls would be taken. Thank God there is but one of you on the other side of the world.

[jaq 0]

I believe we have all reached a consensus. I believe if there were more people like us the world would be a better place to live regardless of our beliefs. I think it's called finding a common ground inwhich we can all live in peace.

[jaq 0]

I also believe if there were more f1 fans in the world, it would be a better place to live

[Max Mosley 2]

Bah humbug. *hates agreement*

[jaq 0]

Bah humbug. *hates agreement*

Hahahaha! ok, how about the world would be a better place to live if we all agreed to disagree we agree. Now I'm using a rumsfeld euphemism.

[Schumikonen 2]

I don't see what moral justification there can be for God judging people simply on whether they are happy to believe despite having no good reason. How can one be penalised for trusting one's own God-given conscience and rationality.

Did you see the demon? Can you show us a video on youtube? I've been to many Churches and spoken to many Christians and never seen a miracle. Sorry to be skeptical and no one wants to deny these things - it's just that there's no good evidence. In fact there was a recent Harvard study that showed that prayer had no effect on patients in hospital. Also why does God do these miracles for some people and not for others? Religious people are in fact more likely to be poor, ill, die early and suffer than non-religious people. Why don't these preachers come and do these things on national tv so we can all see? Why aren't scientists invited to these Churches so that we all believe?

Regarding your science questions, we've gone over all of them before. What was the point of bringing them up? Are you suggesting the Bible gives more answers than science or that it can answer factual questions (not ones like "what is the meaning of life?") that science can't? There are unresolved questions in both Christianity and science. Everyone uses the scientific method in every day life - it's not optional - but only some add on a God. Now if there were good miracle evidence, then believing in God would be reasonable. However merely postulating a God in order to explain things about the world is not rational because He doesn't explain anything adequately imho. Likewise, rational arguments about unresolved questions in science are not persuasive arguments for the existence of God because a God-concept adds nothing to our understanding of the world.

My point with thoses questions is that not everything can be explain with science, so is not very scientific to be asking for a scientific answer for everything even when you know that science does not has the answer for everything.

About why this happend to some people and to everybody, this is the way that have always been, only God knows why not even Jesus healed everybody he was just healing the poeple he wanted to heal and I am nobody to judge God he can do whatever he wants and like I said he is the boss.

Why this is not happening in national TV? Rating is the answer is that just like you are not everybody is willing to watch that kind of programs on TV but anyway there are some good Christain network that you can watch if you want like Daystar, TBN, and for thoses who speak spanish I recomend www.enlace.org.

If you really want to see miracle happening and if you want to send a scientist to research you can go to www.cashluna.org this is a preacher from Guatemala and everytime that goes to a crusade you can miracles in there, no matter what country he is preaching you will see them.

take a look a this book: This is your day for a miracle - Benny Hinn http://www.bennyhinn.org/

Here is the description of the book.

Benny Hinn believes God still works miracles today, and he's been gifted by the Holy Spirit to bring the healing power of God into people's lives. In this book, he boldly proclaims the healing power of Christ as he's seen it. Do you, or does someone you know, have a troubling illness, genetic disorder or life-threatening disease? If so, this could be the most extraordinary book you've ever read. On its pages are accounts of people whose health was miraculously restored to the amazement of their families, friends and even their medical doctors. The dramatic, real-life stories in this book will inspire you, and Benny Hinn's Bible-based teaching on the key to your miracle will give you a greater understanding of why Jesus heals today.

You can go to any crusade of Benny Hinn and you will see the power of God or you can go to see Steve Fatow http://www.trinitychapel.com/ I went to see him in my country and that was amazing, I saw a lot of people getting healed that night and if you go to one of thoses events you will see them too.

My cable provider is Comcast and we have some Christian channels like TBN and Daystar and I got Enlace in internet and I see a lot of miracles in thoses channel but I do see them in my church too, I know that miracle does not happend in every church that calls themselves crhistians, this only happend in real crhistian churches were the Holy Spirit is the leader, out there you will find a lot of people who will call themselves crhistians but they are not really Christian, fi you don't see thoses sign in there, there are just fake christain take a look at this in Mark 16:

What Jesus' Followers Must Do

(Matthew 28.16-20; Luke 24.36-49; John 20.19-23; Acts 1.6-8)

14Afterwards, Jesus appeared to his eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them because they were too stubborn to believe the ones who had seen him after he had been raised to life. 15Then he told them:

Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world. 16Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned. 17Everyone who believes me will be able to do wonderful things. By using my name they will force out demons, and they will speak new languages. 18They will handle snakes and will drink poison and not be hurt. They will also heal sick people by placing their hands on them.

As you can see this is for everyone who believe, so there is no reason why you can not see a miracle in a so call christian church that is something very comon in real churches today.

[Max Mosley 2]

Hahahaha! ok, how about the world would be a better place to live if we all agreed to disagree we agree. Now I'm using a rumsfeld euphemism.

There are agreements where we all agree to agree. Sometimes we can agree while we all disagree whether we agree or not. There are disagreements where we all agree to disagree. There are disagreements where we all disagree as to whether we agreed or disagreed after all.

[Max Mosley 2]

OK Schumikonen, cheers. Maybe Andres was right again. We will just go round in circles. I have no problem with that - but I would rather do it with people that I don't like.

[jaq 0]

My point with thoses questions is that not everything can be explain with science, so is not very scientific to be asking for a scientific answer for everything even when you know that science does not has the answer for everything.

About why this happend to some people and to everybody, this is the way that have always been, only God knows why not even Jesus healed everybody he was just healing the poeple he wanted to heal and I am nobody to judge God he can do whatever he wants and like I said he is the boss.

Why this is not happening in national TV? Rating is the answer is that just like you are not everybody is willing to watch that kind of programs on TV but anyway there are some good Christain network that you can watch if you want like Daystar, TBN, and for thoses who speak spanish I recomend www.enlace.org.

If you really want to see miracle happening and if you want to send a scientist to research you can go to www.cashluna.org this is a preacher from Guatemala and everytime that goes to a crusade you can miracles in there, no matter what country he is preaching you will see them.

take a look a this book: This is your day for a miracle - Benny Hinn http://www.bennyhinn.org/

Here is the description of the book.

Benny Hinn believes God still works miracles today, and he's been gifted by the Holy Spirit to bring the healing power of God into people's lives. In this book, he boldly proclaims the healing power of Christ as he's seen it. Do you, or does someone you know, have a troubling illness, genetic disorder or life-threatening disease? If so, this could be the most extraordinary book you've ever read. On its pages are accounts of people whose health was miraculously restored to the amazement of their families, friends and even their medical doctors. The dramatic, real-life stories in this book will inspire you, and Benny Hinn's Bible-based teaching on the key to your miracle will give you a greater understanding of why Jesus heals today.

You can go to any crusade of Benny Hinn and you will see the power of God or you can go to see Steve Fatow http://www.trinitychapel.com/ I went to see him in my country and that was amazing, I saw a lot of people getting healed that night and if you go to one of thoses events you will see them too.

My cable provider is Comcast and we have some Christian channels like TBN and Daystar and I got Enlace in internet and I see a lot of miracles in thoses channel but I do see them in my church too, I know that miracle does not happend in every church that calls themselves crhistians, this only happend in real crhistian churches were the Holy Spirit is the leader, out there you will find a lot of people who will call themselves crhistians but they are not really Christian, fi you don't see thoses sign in there, there are just fake christain take a look at this in Mark 16:

What Jesus' Followers Must Do

(Matthew 28.16-20; Luke 24.36-49; John 20.19-23; Acts 1.6-8)

14Afterwards, Jesus appeared to his eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them because they were too stubborn to believe the ones who had seen him after he had been raised to life. 15Then he told them:

Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world. 16Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned. 17Everyone who believes me will be able to do wonderful things. By using my name they will force out demons, and they will speak new languages. 18They will handle snakes and will drink poison and not be hurt. They will also heal sick people by placing their hands on them.

As you can see this is for everyone who believe, so there is no reason why you can not see a miracle in a so call christian church that is something very comon in real churches today.

What miracle have you seen? Have you handled snakes and drank poison and not been hurt? The miracle i'd like to see is no more scripture, just your very own opinion.

[pumpdoc 2]

Anybody who believes in Benny Hinn is a fool, my .02 worth.................

[jaq 0]

Anybody who believes in Benny Hinn is a fool, my .02 worth.................

Heeeal! I say heeal!

[Kay 0]

I leave the thread alone for two days... and it is still going around in circles!

[jaq 0]

I leave the thread alone for two days... and it is still going around in circles!

I guess it's what makes the world go round and round.

[Quiet One 15]

Heeeal! I say heeal!

Best use of an emoticon ever!

[pabloh20 1]

Jokes aside, as you may see from my usually silly behavior, I don't really expect much good to come from these kind of threads. God is a matter of faith, something we all knew since the beggining so it's kind of useless to argue in circles between believers and non-believers. On the other hand, I one of my few metaphysical needs is the one of harmony and tolerance withut compromising diversity. That is why I value friendships like yours, Paul. Being able to accept the other with his/her differences and ultimately find common grounds is something our world is in dire need of. So, even if your words will never turn me into a believer, they at least rekindle my faith in humanity!

Zealots, like Russ said, are out of my equation, whatever faction they belong to.

Now, let's all go to a pub and rejoice! (I sound as if I'm drunk...believe me I'm not...I just feel optimistic today, hope it won't last for long though)

I can't argue with that for a minute, Andres, I completely agree. Though, I hasten to add, I wouldn't be so disrespectful as even trying to convert you into a believer because I completely respect other people's beliefs or chosen path, my friend. I stand by what I said, though, if the world was full of more Andre's, it would be a better place!!

Amen to that.

I thought you weren't a Christian any more any way Paul?

Well, I am not a practising Christian, Murray, but I still believe in God, I can't imagine that ever leaving me now. As I said, though, the Christian life isn't easy........

I believe we have all reached a consensus. I believe if there were more people like us the world would be a better place to live regardless of our beliefs. I think it's called finding a common ground inwhich we can all live in peace.

Absolutely! What a great place it would be too.

[Autumnpuma 0]

As i have said before, i appreciate the fact you believe in something. In your case, god and the bible. My arguement has been that god and the bible should not and can not be allowed to set policy for all.

In a society where every person is given a vote, it's for all people to vote their conscience and their beliefs....and the votes are tallied and the majority view prevails. I will not keep my personal beliefs out of my vote simply because you don't like them. I'm sure the world would be better, in your view, if everyone thought like you, but that argument goes my way as well.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I believe we have all reached a consensus. I believe if there were more people like us the world would be a better place to live regardless of our beliefs. I think it's called finding a common ground inwhich we can all live in peace.

Again with 'consensus' Where are you from, jaq?

[monza gorilla 1]

My guess is Canada.

[jaq 0]

My guess is Canada.

Beautiful country.Isn't it?