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Iran Captures 15 British Sailors

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my attitude is because i hate war and hate how UK has to get involved in these messes every time.

war should only be considered when there really is no other option. So i'll wait to see what happens to these captured marines before I get all aggressive!!

If you want an example of seeing what Brits are made of, look into the Blitz during WW2, and the Battle of Britain!

In the 80's we had to go to war with Argentina as a last resort, but we did it and we overcame them. Britain can and will use military force, as it does currently in Afghanistan and Iraq, but we're not going to demand immediate action just because a group of marines has been captured. I am hoping that the situation will settle down and be resolved without the need for death

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What cave do you live in?

Actually he is perfectly right, all we have is a bunch of insinuations from countries with a very dubious recent record on such matters. Which of course is accompanied by a stony silence on the fact that more violence is Sunni sponsored, which obviously has nothing to do with Iran or Syria, and might very well have something to do with their Saudi buddies. I don't doubt that arms and cash from Iran is getting into Iraq, but I doubt there is a concerted state sponsored effort. It is probably more a matter of the Iranian government not doing enough to stop them, as they want their share of the Iraqi pie. The consistent refusal of the Americans to discuss the matter with those factions, or with Iran and Syria doesn't help.

Remember, the Americans and British soldiers who went into Iraq aren't any braver than the suicide bombers who are brainwashed into killing civilians. As I have said before, they wouldn't be doing it if they had the same arms, so projecting their struggle as anything less legitimate than the invading coalition holds very little water.

There is a rather interesting report from the Guardian, which backs my opinion that it is more non interference than a concerted effort by the Iranian authorities to claim Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2041713,00.html

Although British and US military and diplomats often complain of Iranian support for insurgents in Iraq, there is no "smoking gun" to prove it, a senior British officer in Basra admitted yesterday.

Iraqi militia chiefs admit that hundreds of their fighters have crossed the poorly-guarded border into Iran for training by the Al-Qods [Jerusalem] Force, a branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard that is believed to have trained guerrillas in Lebanon, Bosnia and Afghanistan. The US Central Command claims there are 150 Iranian agents in Iraq, though this is impossible to confirm. "There are very few Iranian nationals in Iraq, or at least very few carrying Iranian documents," one diplomat said. "But they have so much influence on the ground, they are able to operate effectively at arm's length."

No, this is Iran invading Iraqi waters and capturing your countrymen. This is an attack on Britain.

No, it is merely a groundless presumption.

This is truly sad. Do Americans have to lose their lives because you Brits can't fight your own battles? I sincerely hope it doesn't come to the point where we Americans are stuck fighting for you. I sincerely hope you can settle this before we need to.

Ha. While the Americans are concentrating on a futile, pointless and cruel invasion in Iraq, it is your NATO allies including a large contingent from Britain that is fighting your war in Afghanistan. Who can't fight their own battles?

Perhaps if the Americans hadn't stationed two carrier groups in the Gulf, if they hadn't recently captured Iranian diplomats (whom they still hold), this wouldn't have happened.

Britain can by all means launch an attack on Iran, just like Israel did on Lebanon after 3(?) of their soldiers were captured. Of course that isn't going to get the marines back. The Israelis still haven't come back, but then the Israelis were just looking for some chest thumping. The capture of the soldiers was just an excuse, Israel was perfectly aware that the destruction of cities in Lebanon and the murder of thousands of civilians wasn't going to get those soldiers back. Going by Britain's reactio, it seems like they don't want a third war to fight right now, they actually want the marines back with as little trouble as possible. The mild reaction also makes me wonder if the marines were indeed in the wrong place, and even if they woudln't admit it officially, they are not surpised with the Iranian response.

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Actually he is perfectly right, all we have is a bunch of insinuations from countries with a very dubious recent record on such matters. Which of course is accompanied by a stony silence on the fact that more violence is Sunni sponsored, which obviously has nothing to do with Iran or Syria, and might very well have something to do with their Saudi buddies. I don't doubt that arms and cash from Iran is getting into Iraq, but I doubt there is a concerted state sponsored effort. It is probably more a matter of the Iranian government not doing enough to stop them, as they want their share of the Iraqi pie. The consistent refusal of the Americans to discuss the matter with those factions, or with Iran and Syria doesn't help.

Remember, the Americans and British soldiers who went into Iraq aren't any braver than the suicide bombers who are brainwashed into killing civilians. As I have said before, they wouldn't be doing it if they had the same arms, so projecting their struggle as anything less legitimate than the invading coalition holds very little water.

There is a rather interesting report from the Guardian, which backs my opinion that it is more non interference than a concerted effort by the Iranian authorities to claim Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2041713,00.html

No, it is merely a groundless presumption.

Ha. While the Americans are concentrating on a futile, pointless and cruel invasion in Iraq, it is your NATO allies including a large contingent from Britain that is fighting your war in Afghanistan. Who can't fight their own battles?

Perhaps if the Americans hadn't stationed two carrier groups in the Gulf, if they hadn't recently captured Iranian diplomats (whom they still hold), this wouldn't have happened.

Britain can by all means launch an attack on Iran, just like Israel did on Lebanon after 3(?) of their soldiers were captured. Of course that isn't going to get the marines back. The Israelis still haven't come back, but then the Israelis were just looking for some chest thumping. The capture of the soldiers was just an excuse, Israel was perfectly aware that the destruction of cities in Lebanon and the murder of thousands of civilians wasn't going to get those soldiers back. Going by Britain's reactio, it seems like they don't want a third war to fight right now, they actually want the marines back with as little trouble as possible. The mild reaction also makes me wonder if the marines were indeed in the wrong place, and even if they woudln't admit it officially, they are not surpised with the Iranian response.

welcome back!

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So is there no proof, one way or the other, as to where the Cornwall was? C'mon Brits, these are your countrymen who were captured, where they in Iranian waters or not? If they were, then it's your bad I suppose, because either the captain failed basic sea navigation or he was there deliberately.

If he wasn't in Iranian waters, then Iran has just committed an act of war against Britain. I shall now sit back and see what you Brits are really made of these days. Are you outraged or complacent?

EDIT: Bruce, don't mind ykick. If the Iranian navy had captured Aussies, he'd be singing a different tune ^_^

I'm really quite insulted by your remarks about Great Britain. Are we outraged or complacent? Yes, i'm outraged but the last thing we should do is start throwing our weight around. I suspect this is what Bush would do and look how he is viewed by the eyes of the world. We must demonstrate our ability to be diplomatic, reasonable and able to solve disputes without the need for miliatary action. If we do this, we may start to claw back some of the respect from the rest of the world which was destroyed when we went into Iraq with America. This doesn't mean that we're compacent, far from it. It means we use our brains before we start digging ourselves into a hole.

This is a very delicate situation and deeply political. It needs to be treated properly and with respect to the Iranians.

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So is there no proof, one way or the other, as to where the Cornwall was? C'mon Brits, these are your countrymen who were captured, where they in Iranian waters or not? If they were, then it's your bad I suppose, because either the captain failed basic sea navigation or he was there deliberately.

If he wasn't in Iranian waters, then Iran has just committed an act of war against Britain. I shall now sit back and see what you Brits are really made of these days. Are you outraged or complacent?

EDIT: Bruce, don't mind ykick. If the Iranian navy had captured Aussies, he'd be singing a different tune

If it had been Americans captured, every single one of you would be baying for Iranian blood. The attitude of the US nation, and a lot of its people towards the Brits makes me sick, and the actual reality is you know nothing whatsoever about us. I know the American way is to go in all guns blazing and think of the conseqences after the mess has already been made but there is really no need for Violence if the problem can be solved diplomatically.

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If you want an example of seeing what Brits are made of, look into the Blitz during WW2, and the Battle of Britain!

That generation is dead, Jem, or dying. I don't believe that sort of mettle exists anymore. We are not the equal of them. Not by a long shot.

I would say it's nice to see Cav posting, but true to his recent form, it's only in a political thread (unless I missed his posts elsewhere). Depressing. Cav's F1 views are far more interesting.

Steve, sorry for insulting you Brits.

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Steve, sorry for insulting you Brits.

Hey, not a problem Mike. :thumb:

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I have to say I was quite wrong about Cav. He seems to have posted a few tidbits in other threads....please disregard my comments here about the 'argumentative Indian'...

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I have to say I was quite wrong about Cav. He seems to have posted a few tidbits in other threads....please disregard my comments here about the 'argumentative Indian'...

My two cents to this thread would be a post way too long (as usual :rolleyes: ). Sorry :blush:

1) I totally support the way Brits handle this. With all due respect, but the US macho idea "bomb now, ask later" has costed 3,500 deaths and 23,500 wounded from the coalition forces (and those are the "official" figures), plus 6,400 iraqi deaths and 26,000 wounded PLUS any number between 59,000 and 65,000 civilian deaths (don't tell me they were "killed by terrorists", they were killed in a war that your country is an important part, you were there to defend them, in the first place, right?). No idea how many civilians were wounded...who cares, right??? There are no official figures for civilian deaths or wounded, only gross estimates.

Not a single WMD was found, nor Bin Laden.

2) It is a common western tactic in origin to "test" the opposition defenses by moving an army or planes very close to the limits and see how they react. That way they can test the opposition army's reaction, whether the radar lights up or not, etc. This could be the case but they went too far. Just a theory, of course.

3) Welcome back, Cav! Try to control your temper and let us enjoy your F1 comments this season! :D Well..."enjoy" is too much, considering you are a Ferrari/MS lover :P

Note: I know I got a bit temperamental, and I don't really feel comfortable discussing political stuff in this forum (would very much enjoy discussing this anywhere, though, because I love politics). Sorry, but we all know about Iraq and Iran crimes. I just don't see how this war helped make this world safer at all.

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You where right. Lets look at things:

Under Saddam: People had no liberty, and no freedom, and they where murders

Under Bush: Daily suicide bombings, anarchy, a lot of people have no homes and no water, and more people are dying than where under Saddam's regime.

It is simple, Saddam was Ousted and Bush was brought in. 1 murdering, warmongering dictator swapped for another. Where's the improvement

Whats more it is hightened the tension between Islam and its followers, and the west in general. Things like the Madrid and London bombings wouldn't have happened if we had stayed out of Iraq.

A lot of innocent people are dying, being kidnapped, and so on so that Bush can line his pockets. Its just sick

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You where right. Lets look at things:

Under Saddam: People had no liberty, and no freedom, and they where murders

Under Bush: Daily suicide bombings, anarchy, a lot of people have no homes and no water, and more people are dying than where under Saddam's regime.

It is simple, Saddam was Ousted and Bush was brought in. 1 murdering, warmongering dictator swapped for another. Where's the improvement?

Whats more it is hightened the tension between Islam and its followers, and the west in general. Things like the Madrid and London bombings wouldn't have happened if we had stayed out of Iraq.

A lot of innocent people are dying, being kidnapped, and so on so that Bush can line his pockets. Its just sick

There's more porn.

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My dad once said: Son, if you keep whacking it, you'll go blind.

I told him, "I'm over here, dad."

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Do you all remember that joke about George Bush's arrival in Hell (there is a porn connection)?

Also, whilst the occupation in Iraq has been hopelessly bungled right from the get-go, mainly by the Americans because of Bush imho, I don't think it's fair to blame them entirely. The people who are responsible for the mess are the suicide bombers. Bush is just incompetent, not particularly malicious.

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Do you all remember that joke about George Bush's arrival in Hell (there is a porn connection)?

Also, whilst the occupation in Iraq has been hopelessly bungled right from the get-go, mainly by the Americans because of Bush imho, I don't think it's fair to blame them entirely. The people who are responsible for the mess are the suicide bombers. Bush is just incompetent, not particularly malicious.

I always thought that Bush was not only incompetent but also malicious. I dont think i would have a problem throwing incredibly large objects at him but i think the American Secret Service might take exception to it. Bush is a idiot but he is also a dangerous idiot as he believes everyone in the world must think like him.

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Do you all remember that joke about George Bush's arrival in Hell (there is a porn connection)?

Also, whilst the occupation in Iraq has been hopelessly bungled right from the get-go, mainly by the Americans because of Bush imho, I don't think it's fair to blame them entirely. The people who are responsible for the mess are the suicide bombers. Bush is just incompetent, not particularly malicious.

I don't think anybody supports any kind of terrorism here, Murray. We just disagree on the remedy to that problem. As for not being malicious, I will keep my comments to myself. I don't want this thread to escalate into a full forum war :lol:

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I'm really quite insulted by your remarks about Great Britain. Are we outraged or complacent? Yes, i'm outraged but the last thing we should do is start throwing our weight around. I suspect this is what Bush would do and look how he is viewed by the eyes of the world. We must demonstrate our ability to be diplomatic, reasonable and able to solve disputes without the need for miliatary action. If we do this, we may start to claw back some of the respect from the rest of the world which was destroyed when we went into Iraq with America. This doesn't mean that we're compacent, far from it. It means we use our brains before we start digging ourselves into a hole.

This is a very delicate situation and deeply political. It needs to be treated properly and with respect to the Iranians.

As much as I hate politics, I hate political threads in the Forums too. But I always read others view, but Your comments really made a lot of sense here. If only Blair had thought of this!

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I always thought that Bush was not only incompetent but also malicious. I dont think i would have a problem throwing incredibly large objects at him but i think the American Secret Service might take exception to it. Bush is a idiot but he is also a dangerous idiot as he believes everyone in the world must think like him.

Bush is somewhat incompetant. He still believe the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.

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Bush is somewhat incompetant. He still believe the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.

Before you make comments like this, make sure you know something about what you say.

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I always thought that Bush was not only incompetent but also malicious. I dont think i would have a problem throwing incredibly large objects at him but i think the American Secret Service might take exception to it. Bush is a idiot but he is also a dangerous idiot as he believes everyone in the world must think like him.

As opposed to you thinking everyone must think like you? Interesting...

:lol: Probably wise. Our American friends can be a lil' sensitive... ;)

And we're armed.

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