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whiskee

Why Does Alonso Never Overtake?

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It may be a greater risk, but Defensive driving is a much harder skill to master. And that does not really work out, a trick like that only really works at tracks like Monaco, San Marino and Hungary, there are plenty of tracks where it is quiet possible to pass by going offline. Turkey is a great overtakers track, yet Alonso managed to keep Schumi behind him for about 10 laps, and that is what really makes the difference, being able to drive defensively at circuits that you can be overtaken on.

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thats the difference...

Kimi exceptional, so was Micheal...

Alonso????......hmmmm not in the same class I would say.... -_-

True, since he defeated both Raikkonen and Schumcher, so he must be on a diferent higher class all togheter. :naughty:

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It may be a greater risk, but Defensive driving is a much harder skill to master. And that does not really work out, a trick like that only really works at tracks like Monaco, San Marino and Hungary, there are plenty of tracks where it is quiet possible to pass by going offline. Turkey is a great overtakers track, yet Alonso managed to keep Schumi behind him for about 10 laps, and that is what really makes the difference, being able to drive defensively at circuits that you can be overtaken on.

No, it is one of the most difficult to overtake......

EDIT: sorry Shane, you're right, I'm thinking San Marino

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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I am not saying overtaking is easy, it is just easier than defensive driving. Think about how many drivers are capable of overtaking, then think of how many you would say are really skilled at defensive driving. Anyone in the field can overtake, yet very few of them are actually good at defensive driving.

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It may be a greater risk, but Defensive driving is a much harder skill to master. And that does not really work out, a trick like that only really works at tracks like Monaco, San Marino and Hungary, there are plenty of tracks where it is quiet possible to pass by going offline. Turkey is a great overtakers track, yet Alonso managed to keep Schumi behind him for about 10 laps, and that is what really makes the difference, being able to drive defensively at circuits that you can be overtaken on.

Shane, I agree and disagree, to a point.

Personally, I think there are too many circuits where's it's relatively easy to defend, emphasis on the 'relatively' because as you say, I think defending is a skill. However, I do think it's harder to overtake than to defend these days at the majority of the circuits, but that's not to say all the time.

Alonso is very good at defending. In my mind, the greater skill is the mental ability to do it rather than the actual physical skill required. In that I mean, actually working out where to place your car and at what point shouldn't be too hard to figure out for these guys, however the mental skill in resisting the pressure and doing it lap after lap without making a mistake impresses me with Alonso. Although I am interested to see if the situation arises this year because, and I accept I am in the minority with this, I think that defending in the Renault for the last couple of years was just a tad easier than some of the other cars due to the Renault's traction out of corners. That's not to take anything away from Alonso, I expect him to confirm his skill at defending while at McLaren, I just think it may be a tad harder than previously.

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That applies at somewhere like San Marino, but in a place like Turkey it is all about mental agility and car placement, as Turkey is a relatively high speed circuit. Alonso knew where Schumacher was strong, and where he was weak and in the end Schumacher got frustrated by knowing what Alonso was doing, and made a mistake. In my personal opinion that is a very tough thing to do.

I don't deny that overtaking is hard, its just stupid to see people criticising Alonso for something that is a skill, not a flaw.

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... other than those he is lapping. At least in that sense R

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That applies at somewhere like San Marino, but in a place like Turkey it is all about mental agility and car placement, as Turkey is a relatively high speed circuit. Alonso knew where Schumacher was strong, and where he was weak and in the end Schumacher got frustrated by knowing what Alonso was doing, and made a mistake. In my personal opinion that is a very tough thing to do.

I don't deny that overtaking is hard, its just stupid to see people criticising Alonso for something that is a skill, not a flaw.

Fair enough, however, personally I see it as it being harder to overtake, even on circuits accepted as being 'overtaking' circuits, but it's just a differeing opinion, that's all.

And I wasn't criticising Alsonso.

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I might also add that your bias against the greatest driver of the current bunch is a joke and therefore your opinions aren't taken very seriously.

So all the time MS was racing, I shouldn't have taken your opinions seriously?? Now you tell me!! :lol:

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Fair enough, however, personally I see it as it being harder to overtake, even on circuits accepted as being 'overtaking' circuits, but it's just a differeing opinion, that's all.

And I wasn't criticising Alsonso.

That comment was aimed more at people like BradSpeedMan I know you wern't criticising him ;)

If you watch the 2005 San Marino race, and see how easily schumi got past button (and bear in mind that button was actually on Alonso's pace), that will illustrate the difference that being able to defend adds to a driver's arsenal.

Granted it is easier at San Marino than most other places, but considering the speed advantage Schumi had, still no mean feat.

Edited by Shane2

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That comment was aimed more at people like BradSpeedMan I know you wern't criticising him ;)

If you watch the 2005 San Marino race, and see how easily schumi got past button (and bear in mind that button was actually on Alonso's pace), that will illustrate the difference that being able to defend adds to a driver's arsenal.

Granted it is easier at San Marino than most other places, but considering the speed advantage Schumi had, still no mean feat.

Shane, I said I only disagreed to a point - I did say he was very good at defending! :lol:

I agree, it was no mean feat, at all.

Edited by pabloh20

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Shane, I said I only disagreed to a point - I did say he was very good at defending! :lol:

I agree, it was no mean feat, at all.

:P Again a comment aimed at his doubters more than you

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what about turn 1 at Suzuka when he overtook Fisi?

Or at 130R when he went around the outside of Schumacher?

those moves take balls.

Do you agree there was an element of.....idiocy, yes, thats the word,...... regarding the Schumacher overtaking. Do you agree if Schumacher closed the door, or rather, braked later, and therefore shut Alonso out, the consequences would've been disastrous. It was up to Schumie to decide what to do. Alonso might have balls to overtake (as you put it), but a real thorough-bred racer will overtake and reduce the element of risk that puts the other driver in danger.....

Did Raikkonen in that same race put Fisi in danger???

It is rather their own lives.....thats where the art of real overtaking plays it part....

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:P Again a comment aimed at his doubters more than you

Sorry, me slow today.............ok, slower than my 'normal' self, before anybody else says!! :lol:

Edit: And that means you, Andres, I can see you lurking about! :mf_tongue:

Edited by pabloh20

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Do you agree there was an element of.....idiocy, yes, thats the word,...... regarding the Schumacher overtaking. Do you agree if Schumacher closed the door, or rather, braked later, and therefore shut Alonso out, the consequences would've been disastrous. It was up to Schumie to decide what to do. Alonso might have balls to overtake (as you put it), but a real thorough-bred racer will overtake and reduce the element of risk that puts the other driver in danger.....

Did Raikkonen in that same race put Fisi in danger???

i must say (from a neutral view) that when Alonso overtook Schuey japan 05 and I saw it from Schuey's onboard camera, I couldnt believe that Alonso had done it (and i dont mean that in a good way!), schuey did back off slightly cos he probably knew that if he didnt, there would be a monumental accident. There's a fine line between brave and stupid. At the time Martin Brundle commented that it could've been "the mother and father of all accidents!" Luckily they didnt collide.

With Kimi & Fisi in the same race, Fisi stupidly took a very tight line through the final chicane thinking he needed to protect his position (kimi was way too far behind on that corner anyway), ruining his exit and handing the overtake to Kimi on a plate.

Basically, both of them are very good at overtaking and both do a fine job defending too.

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Basically, both of them are very good at overtaking and both do a fine job defending too.

If we want to compromise, then I believe this is the statement to make....

otherwise.....

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If Schumacher was all by himself and didnt back off there would have been an accident, he wasent on the racing line and wasent going to be able to take as much speed through the turn so had to slow no matter what. Alonso knew this aswell and seeing as he was ahead going into the turn it was his.

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If Schumacher was all by himself and didnt back off there would have been an accident, he wasent on the racing line and wasent going to be able to take as much speed through the turn so had to slow no matter what. Alonso knew this aswell and seeing as he was ahead going into the turn it was his.

Player, look at the vid, MS had the racing line and backed off.....

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Player, look at the vid, MS had the racing line and backed off.....

I'm assuming you mean inside line (Alonso was on the racing line, of less resistance meaning he could carry more speed into the turn) but still Alonso was ahead before the turn in point and if any driver wants to take an inside line they have to be alongside and outbrake the other person which would have been impossible since the tangent Schumacher was travelling along was too tight for such a high speed turn. Schumacher was experienced enough to know he lost out and Alonso knew he wasent stupid enough to do a kamikazi outbraking maneuver down the inside. Their lies the genius of Alonso, knowing what others around him are doing.

Same position Schumacher was in for Adelaide '94, ahead and on the racing line.

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Same position Schumacher was in for Adelaide '94, ahead and on the racing line.

no, when you've got someone alongside you going into a corner you cant just drive into the side of them, he knew where Hill was and he knew Hill was going up the inside

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Watch and your question will be answered.

Amazing drive championship winning imo.

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