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whiskee

Why Does Alonso Never Overtake?

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i must say (from a neutral view) that when Alonso overtook Schuey japan 05 and I saw it from Schuey's onboard camera, I couldnt believe that Alonso had done it (and i dont mean that in a good way!), schuey did back off slightly cos he probably knew that if he didnt, there would be a monumental accident. There's a fine line between brave and stupid. At the time Martin Brundle commented that it could've been "the mother and father of all accidents!" Luckily they didnt collide.

With Kimi & Fisi in the same race, Fisi stupidly took a very tight line through the final chicane thinking he needed to protect his position (kimi was way too far behind on that corner anyway), ruining his exit and handing the overtake to Kimi on a plate.

Basically, both of them are very good at overtaking and both do a fine job defending too.

Wrong. Alonso pinned Schumacher against the Apex of the corner, meaning he had no choice but to back off. Watch the onboard properly, and you will see just how good that was as an overtaking move. It was a clever piece of racecraft, it was not dangerous.

normally kimi is soo far in the lead he doesnt need to defend :) and kimi is a great overtaker!!

Strange that, his career stats tell me otherwise. He has retired from nearly as many races as he has been on the podium. The funny thing is people like you are fanatical about a driver who hasn't yet won a world title, and yet you trash a proven winner, that already has 2 titles at the age of 25 and is already 13th on the high point scorer list. I have nothing against Raikkonen, but you should really tone it down.

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Question; Alonso is a double world champion, do you think he gives a tuppeny f*ck about how many overtaking moves he has made? If he doesn't make that many (and i'm not sure that's true anyway) he's just made the rest of the drivers look a little bit stupid, don't you think?

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Question; Alonso is a double world champion, do you think he gives a tuppeny f*ck about how many overtaking moves he has made? If he doesn't make that many (and i'm not sure that's true anyway) he's just made the rest of the drivers look a little bit stupid, don't you think?

Hit... Nail.. Head...

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Even though I don't like Alonso very much, but I have to disagree that he does not do much over taking. In 2005 at Australia, he was all the way in the back and fought all the way up to 3rd. Last year at one of the race when it was pouring. He passed up MS on the out side. Alonso in the past has started from the back was passing people left and right to gain back his position. Although his attitudes sucks outside of the race track, but he's one fast driver.

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To be honest, i'm an out and out Raikkonen fan yet I do believe that Alonso is rather good at both overtaking and defensive driving, i'd say he uses his mental strengths quite well when it comes to being on the defensive. The lines and speed alterations he figures out and uses deserve respect. The thing is that Alonso can and will drive a whole race like that if he has too, he has the edge on Kimi though just by a bit. Equally Raikkonen just edges Alonso when it comes to offensive driving, his ability to push forward from any position deserves the same respect. I'm pretty sure if Kimi was in the Macca in Melbourne he would've probably have overtaken Hamilton at some point before the pit stop but still would've ended second, Alonso knew the second was the best position and used the pit stops to achieve his end result, though he probably could've overtaken Hamilton if he really really tried and needed to. Ron Dennis gave us his whole story about the Macca's being held up by BMW and challenging for the race win but really, I don't think Alonso would've have stayed behind Hamilton for so long nor Macca let him if he could've won.

So whiskee I agree with you to a certain extent, its not so much that Fernando cannot overtake but rather he bases his risks on long term results and therefore will only overtake(most of the time) when it serves to better his end result and Yes in that sense Kimi is the more exciting of the two. To be honest most of this is based on Alonso's Renault career thus far, I will only be fully convinced after watching the Spaniard in the Macca, with Kimi in a reliable car and the championship requiring those two to go head to head.

Oh with regards to the Idiocy required to overtake like he did at 130R, I think its a bit unfair to label it as such, that move was awesome, it will be legendary in a few years!! Sometimes you have to back yourself and be confident enough to overtake and FORCE your overtakee into lifting, kinda like saying "I'm coming through and i'm not lifting, you're gonna have to lift if you don't want to be involved in the mother and father of all accidents" and Micheal lifted accordingly. IMHO

Edited by Raikkonen_Zn

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To be honest, i'm an out and out Raikkonen fan yet I do believe that Alonso is rather good at both overtaking and defensive driving, i'd say he uses his mental strengths quite well when it comes to being on the defensive. The lines and speed alterations he figures out and uses deserve respect. The thing is that Alonso can and will drive a whole race like that if he has too, he has the edge on Kimi though just by a bit. Equally Raikkonen just edges Alonso when it comes to offensive driving, his ability to push forward from any position deserves the same respect. I'm pretty sure if Kimi was in the Macca in Melbourne he would've probably have overtaken Hamilton at some point before the pit stop but still would've ended second, Alonso knew the second was the best position and used the pit stops to achieve his end result, though he probably could've overtaken Hamilton if he really really tried and needed to. Ron Dennis gave us his whole story about the Macca's being held up by BMW and challenging for the race win but really, I don't think Alonso would've have stayed behind Hamilton for so long nor Macca let him if he could've won.

So whiskee I agree with you to a certain extent, its not so much that Fernando cannot overtake but rather he bases his risks on long term results and therefore will only overtake(most of the time) when it serves to better his end result and Yes in that sense Kimi is the more exciting of the two. To be honest most of this is based on Alonso's Renault career thus far, I will only be fully convinced after watching the Spaniard in the Macca, with Kimi in a reliable car and the championship requiring those two to go head to head.

Oh with regards to the Idiocy required to overtake like he did at 130R, I think its a bit unfair to label it as such, that move was awesome, it will be legendary in a few years!! Sometimes you have to back yourself and be confident enough to overtake and FORCE your overtakee into lifting, kinda like saying "I'm coming through and i'm not lifting, you're gonna have to lift if you don't want to be involved in the mother and father of all accidents" and Micheal lifted accordingly. IMHO

Great way to put it and glad you are not an Alonso fan so you can't be accused of being as biased as any of us would be if we said anything like that :clap3:

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So whiskee I agree with you to a certain extent, its not so much that Fernando cannot overtake but rather he bases his risks on long term results and therefore will only overtake(most of the time) when it serves to better his end result and Yes in that sense Kimi is the more exciting of the two. To be honest most of this is based on Alonso's Renault career thus far, I will only be fully convinced after watching the Spaniard in the Macca, with Kimi in a reliable car and the championship requiring those two to go head to head.

Spot on.

As for being fully convinced, the same could be said about Kimi you know. In all his years in F1 he's gotten close to the championship but like a man with blue balls, he never quite comes clean with the goods.

I will only be fully convinced after watching the Finn in the bullet-proof Ferrari, with Alonso clearly pushing and falling short.

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Alonso does overtake more than most other drivers in F1. Actually I have always considered him as one of the most spectacular drivers, because he overtakes a lot. Are we speaking about Fernando Alonso and Formula 1, or do you mean some other Alonso?

He could mean Liverpool's Spainsh midfielder Xabi Alonso? :unsure:

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Do you agree there was an element of.....idiocy, yes, thats the word,...... regarding the Schumacher overtaking. Do you agree if Schumacher closed the door, or rather, braked later, and therefore shut Alonso out, the consequences would've been disastrous. It was up to Schumie to decide what to do. Alonso might have balls to overtake (as you put it), but a real thorough-bred racer will overtake and reduce the element of risk that puts the other driver in danger.....

Did Raikkonen in that same race put Fisi in danger???

It is rather their own lives.....thats where the art of real overtaking plays it part....

sorry...my bad.

That was Kimi that overtook Fisi in turn 1 at Suzuka.

Being able to overtake like that takes alot of courage not only in yourself, but the bloke you are pulling the crazy move on. I guess both Kimi & Alonso felt that their respective 'victims' were not going to do anything stupid.

imho

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Raikkonen's move was more of an "im gonna muscle my way past whether you like it or not" Alonso's was more trusting, because he knew there was a big chance of a crash. Both gutsy moves in their own right.

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