Alonso's Team Cheating Again

[cavallino 2]

I never know if you are joking or if you are being serious!

The conspiracy theory that the FIA favours Mclaren or Renault actually has more weight than saying they favour Ferrari. Neither is true of course, but they can be slightly inconsistent sometimes, like in the case of these wings. In the interest of fairness they should be banned, pronto.

[goferrarigo 0]

Wow! Replace "moRon" with "Brawn", "McLaren" with "Ferrari", "Hamiilton" with "Schumi" and "Bernie" with "Bernie" and you will have exactly the same complaint us anti-ferrarists used to have about the red team.

This is not a defense of McLaren, because I also have my doubts about that wing, I am honestly amazed at how similar are your feelings compared to us Alonso fans in the past. Maybe the FIA & Bernie are actually more equanimous than we think, if they can make both pro and anti Ferrari fans feel as bad

[cavallino 2]

[Player(1) 0]

How is that of an interest to this topic?

It regards car No.5 (hilarious how they pick out only MS's car ) and is concerned with laterial (sideways, as i said designed to lengthen which is beyond carbon fibres elastic properties) moment of the upper element in relation to the nose cone.

This topic?

Look at the front wing move rigidly and without distortion in a vertical manner because of high downforce loads after a long straight.

The point of a purposely designed flexing wing would be to reduce drag in some manner. How is the bridge reducing drag? the movement of the front wing means its under heavy downforce which is causing drag.

It's not flexing down and stalling the front wing is it? nose cone is in the way so thats impossible.

It's clearly not lengthening to push the endplates out and flatten the front wing is it? endplates dont twist at all so cant be.

If you dont like the aesthetics just say it, its the only solid thing that you can say negatively about it. Feel free to go into more depth then "its moving ban it!", reminds us of nonsensical witch hunts storys of Salem.

[cavallino 2]

How is that of an interest to this topic?

It regards car No.5 (hilarious how they pick out only MS's car ) and is concerned with laterial (sideways, as i said designed to lengthen which is beyond carbon fibres elastic properties) moment of the upper element in relation to the nose cone.

Are you a high school student, or are you just picking out words from a dictionary? The Ferrari front wing was moving laterally, and the Mclaren win, as moRon has admitted moves vertically. What on earth do you mean by "designed to lengthen beyond carbon fibre's elastic properties"? How can something be made to lengthen beyond it's elastic properties without breaking or permanently deforming it? This is high school physics.

Look at the front wing move rigidly

Move rigidly?

and without distortion

So it is moving rigidly, and changing shape without distorting? Seriously

because of high downforce loads after a long straight.

Which is precisely what the Ferrari wing was doing last year??

The point of a purposely designed flexing wing would be to reduce drag in some manner. How is the bridge reducing drag? the movement of the front wing means its under heavy downforce which is causing drag.

Remember BMW's rear wing last year, that was banned for less movement last year? It would close the gap and stall on the straight, reducing drag. Under heavy downforce? Downforce is generated by the wings due to airflow over them, it isn't some magical force that is applied on the wing itself.

The effect is irrelevant though, the floor controversy showed us that mere suspicion is enough.

It's not flexing down

It is. And moRon said it is.

It's clearly not lengthening to push the endplates out and flatten the front wing is it? endplates dont twist at all so cant be.

FFS The Ferrari wing wasn't lengthening, that kind of stress causes very little lengthening especially in a material like carbon fibre. It appears to be lengthening because of the little screw device that Ferrari installed, it's just flex.

[LabradoRacer 2]

Post Spanish gp ,Ron Dennis has said, " We are number 2 ,but we are cheating harder."

[DarkLord 0]

Post Spanish gp ,Ron Dennis has said, " We are number 2 ,but we are cheating harder."

[Player(1) 0]

Are you a high school student, or are you just picking out words from a dictionary? The Ferrari front wing was moving laterally, and the Mclaren win, as mcRon has admitted moves vertically. What on earth do you mean by "designed to lengthen beyond carbon fibre's elastic properties"? How can something be made to lengthen beyond it's elastic properties without breaking or permanently deforming it? This is high school physics.

Memory very short? Ferrari used a dowel to lengthen the distance from the nose cone to the end plate, if the upper plane was fixed to the nose cone the carbon fibre would be perminantly damaged or completely snap if it extended to the same degree therefore was giving the upper plane more length then the material would allow by itself.

Should really avoid the personal insults about intelligence if you cant understand that concept.

Move rigidly?

Stays the same mass but moves vector coordinates within space. Really its all basic stuff. Displaced is the correct term but it would cause more confusion with you if the dumbed down version is so hard to grasp, maybe its just the dumbed down version is just easier for you to twist the words.

So it is moving rigidly, and changing shape without distorting? Seriously

As above, if its changing shape its not massively visable to the human eye so is well within the elastic properties of the material not to distort.

Which is precisely what the Ferrari wing was doing last year??

Everyones wings since the beginning of wing use in any motorsports does this, yes. Ferrari's was flexing in a mechanical way that was controlled, completely different, cant understand why you dont get this very simple concept.

They reached the limits of natural flexing within the material because it is allowed, if you see a wing self destruct under high load down a straight without previous external damage then you see the materials stress point has been passed.

Remember BMW's rear wing last year, that was banned for less movement last year? It would close the gap and stall on the straight, reducing drag. Under heavy downforce? Downforce is generated by the wings due to airflow over them, it isn't some magical force that is applied on the wing itself.

The effect is irrelevant though, the floor controversy showed us that mere suspicion is enough.

BMW's rear wing operated within the natural limits of the material, like I said the Mclaren wing wont achieve this in the slightest...it would have to flex down through the nose cone, beyond its natural limit and come in contact with the main plane.

You never know, McLaren might be using smoke and mirrors to conceal the fact that the bridge is doing that some leap forward if they found a way to pass matter through matter without damage.

It is. And mcRon said it is.

Everything does to a degree, you seemt he miss the point that carbon fibre has a habit of it and is a legal material to use. Like he said it is to a very small degree, most if not all the movement you see is the whole nose dipping under load though.

FFS The Ferrari wing wasn't lengthening, that kind of stress causes very little lengthening especially in a material like carbon fibre. It appears to be lengthening because of the little screw device that Ferrari installed, it's just flex.

Why argue this at the start? you clearly show you understand something when you want to, when it suits you to understand it.

If any team extended their upper planes in the same way and even made it twice as thick as McLarens you would still see the same result because the deflection of the whole front win under downforce will be much more visable with the bridge referanced against the nose cone.

[cavallino 2]

Memory very short? Ferrari used a dowel to lengthen the distance from the nose cone to the end plate, if the upper plane was fixed to the nose cone the carbon fibre would be perminantly damaged or completely snap if it extended to the same degree therefore was giving the upper plane more length then the material would allow by itself.

Ok, last psot for the day.

One end was completely fixed to the end plates, only the other end was sliding, go look at the videos again. And it didn't snap, because it flexed. Just like the Mclaren wing. It flexes. It doesn't displace, because the end points are fixed. It flexes. To see what flex is, sit on a hammock. That's flex.

As for fixing the upper plane to the nose cone, that is exactly what Ferrari did after that race.

Should really avoid the personal insults about intelligence if you cant understand that concept.

I never avoid personal insults with you, that would just be giving you the chance to get yours in first

Stays the same mass but moves vector coordinates within space.

No, it flexes. It changes shape. It does not move relative to the nose, it flexes. Like the hammock that I presum you just went and sat on.

Displaced is the correct term but it would cause more confusion with you if the dumbed down version is so hard to grasp

No, it's the wrong term. The wing is not displaced, it flexes.

As above, if its changing shape its not massively visable to the human eye so is well within the elastic properties of the material not to distort.

Massively visible? It is visible. BMW's wing last year was visible as a small slit between two elements that closed. This moves more.

Go download this and concentrate on the gap between the nose and the upper wing element. It's as massively visible as anything.

http://rs25.rapidshare.com/files/30809876/...nso_Onboard.rar

Everyones wings since the beginning of wing use in any motorsports does this, yes.

Exactly, it was a stupid controversy raked up by your favourite teams. Here's what a veteran engineer said:

Dernie baffled by Ferrari wing row

Veteran Formula One engineer Frank Dernie has said he is baffled by the fuss that has been created about flexi-wings in Formula One - especially because he doubts Ferrari gained any advantage from their front-wing configuration.

Although eight rival teams went as far as lodging an advance notice of protest about Ferrari's wings at the Malaysian Grand Prix, before the FIA stepped in to defuse the situation, Williams' Dernie has said he does not understand why some were so pre-occupied by the situation.

"This story about Ferrari's front wing is absurd," he told this week's Autosprint. "You know what the aerodynamic advantage of the flap bending backwards is? Zero. I'm surprised there are reputable technical directors around convinced of the opposite."

Autosprint also quotes an FIA source as keen to play down the drama over the Ferrari front-wing

[cavallino 2]

And to reiterate,

Renault flexi wing from last year, that wasn't banned for some odd reason.

[F1 FANatic 1]

ok, can we just look at the rule for a second.

-Must be Rigidly secured to the sprung part of the car

-Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car

that means that all aero devices can not more in relation to the body of the car. The wing is clearly moving up and down under load. Moving up and down is not immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car hence it should be banned under todays rules, sure we may not like it but if Ferrari and BMW were ruled against using the same rule then the FIA has set a precedent that Merc must be ruled against. But knowing Burnie's greed it wont happen. There is just too much money from Ron, Spain, LH, Merc, and Alonso coming into Bernie's pockets that he would allow Max of the FIA to ban the wing.

[ecapdeville 0]

Its funny how Cavallino uses the "Alonso

[ykickamoocow 0]

Is anyone else half expecting a protest from Ferrari within the next few hours?

[ecapdeville 0]

Is anyone else half expecting a protest from Ferrari within the next few hours?

If its really something to protest this is the time...if they dont...maybe we will see the same wing on the ferrari next time

[Player(1) 0]

And to reiterate,

Renault flexi wing from last year, that wasn't banned for some odd reason.

ok, can we just look at the rule for a second.

-Must be Rigidly secured to the sprung part of the car

-Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car

that means that all aero devices can not more in relation to the body of the car. The wing is clearly moving up and down under load. Moving up and down is not immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car hence it should be banned under todays rules, sure we may not like it but if Ferrari and BMW were ruled against using the same rule then the FIA has set a precedent that Merc must be ruled against. But knowing Burnie's greed it wont happen. There is just too much money from Ron, Spain, LH, Merc, and Alonso coming into Bernie's pockets that he would allow Max of the FIA to ban the wing.

If you want to take it so literally then all wings should be banned from all teams. Mirrors, radio antenna's, driver helmets, tyres, bargeboards, everything.

It's alot more complex then flexing = banned. Lucky your on a computer Cav, if you had to hand right all this youd never get anything done...youd just be eating the crayons.

[cavallino 2]

If you want to take it so literally then all wings should be banned from all teams. Mirrors, radio antenna's, driver helmets, tyres, bargeboards, everything.

Which part of 'aero device' is so confusing to you? Yes, when it comes to wings, it is as simple, and it is becaue your favourite team whined about it last year.

It's alot more complex then flexing = banned. Lucky your on a computer Cav, if you had to hand right all this youd never get anything done...youd just be eating the crayons.

There's only so much spell check can do.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers

striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the

Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the

Universe is winning."

[cavallino 2]

Is anyone else half expecting a protest from Ferrari within the next few hours?

Ferrari aren't that petty.

[cavallino 2]

Its funny how Cavallino uses the "Alonso

[ykickamoocow 0]

Ferrari aren't that petty.

All the teams are that petty. If a team thinks they can get a advantage over another team by taking them to court then they will every single time.

[cavallino 2]

Yes, but Mclaren are the only team who would do it just for the heck of it when they know that they'd just be wasting everyone's time. Look at Ron Dennis claiming that MS used traction control at Malaysia 99, that Bernoldi was not allowed to race DC at Monaco 2001, that Ferrari were using flexi wings to cheat (and then they got their own wings banned ) and now the flexi floor bulls##t.

[aussief1 4]

It's just the type of person Ron Dennis is. He will stop at nothing to protect his team, and whinge to the FIA if he suspects something that might give other teams an advantage regardless if its a top team or a struggling team. Every team is a threat to Ron, it's as simple as that really.

[ecapdeville 0]

It's funny how your sole contribution to the forum is attacking my posts

you are my heroe as yours is Alonso!

[Jez 0]

From Autosport.com-

[McLaren front wing given all-clear

By Jonathan NobleMonday, May 14th 2007, 08:30 GMT

McLaren's radical new 'bridge' front wing has been given a fresh all-clear by the FIA, autosport.com has learned, following concerns from some rival teams in Spain that it could be flexing at high speed.

On-board video footage from Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton's cars showed the front wing moving down on the straights when exposed to the forces experienced at high speed.

That movement led to questions from some of McLaren's rivals about the wing being a moveable aerodynamic device.

In the wake of those worries, however, it is understood that the FIA's technical department examined the wing's flexibility and its behaviour prior to the race and found there to be no issues with its design at all.

An FIA spokesman confirmed to autosport.com: "The matter has been investigated and no action is required."

McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh said his team never had any doubts that the wing was fully legal, and played down any movement that was visible from the on-board footage.

"Anyone who went out on the circuit or watched the slow speed photography saw the wing was very stable, and frankly we didn't think it was ever an issue," said Whitmarsh.

"It hasn't to my knowledge been mentioned to us at all. It is a very slender section, so it might be prone to movement. And perhaps others could be taking advantage of that, but there is no doubt that whoever watches it, knows it is legal."

McLaren's main championship rivals Ferrari also made it clear that they were not worried about the movement of the wing - despite themselves having been accused in the past of running flexi-wings.

Ferrari technical director Mario Almondo said: "At the moment, we think we do not have anything against McLaren. Full stop."]

Well I don't know what all the fuss was about..

[cavallino 2]

you are my heroe as yours is Alonso!

You are my favourite moderator as DC is my favourite driver.

[shampion 0]

You are my favourite moderator as DC is my favourite driver.