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Jem of the Shire

Greatest Of All Time?

who is the greatest  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. ?

    • Fangio
      1
    • Moss
      2
    • Brabham
      1
    • G Hill
      0
    • Clark
      2
    • Stewart
      0
    • Fittipaldi
      0
    • Lauda
      1
    • Piquet
      0
    • Prost
      0
    • Senna
      18
    • Mansell
      0
    • Schumacher
      16
    • Hakkinen
      2
    • Alonso
      3
    • Raikkonen
      1
    • Other (state)
      2


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Eh? How does that justify his inclusion, that some ignorant fool has voted for him?

thats not very nice. Just because someone has a very different opinion to you, doesnt make them an ignorant fool. Whoever voted Hakkinen has every right to do so and express their opinion

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The reason drivers are like Alonso and Hakkinen are included is partially because I wanted to reduce the risk of too many people voting 'other', but mostly because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I considered that there may be a slight chance that some people here may possibly see Alonso or Hakkinen as being the greatest ever. Not me, of course, not in a million years, but they're in there just in case. And its a good thing I did, because evidently someone does think Mika Hakkinen is the greatest driver F1 has seen.

You are of course entitled to create your own poll with your own perfect list, as mine is clearly heavily flawed in your eyes; however I dont expect you will do so as you appear to take much more enjoyment from bringing down this one and living up to your old title of 'argumentative indian'!!!

I was one the one who voted for Mika, not because I feel he is the greatest Champ, I dont really know how much I would have admired Senna, but I have not seen him race, I started watching F1 during 98 season. So I feel that voting for guys like Senna is simply like pretending as if I knew him from just reading about him. I have only read how great is Senna, but very few people speak about his antics, according to me, he had the same ego as Micheal and everyone bitches only when Micheal does something bad. And I think Mika-Micheal raivalry is simply the best I have seen, and I like Mika because he simply seemed to be the class among the pair, and the fact that he was driving such and unrelaible car.

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thats not very nice. Just because someone has a very different opinion to you, doesnt make them an ignorant fool. Whoever voted Hakkinen has every right to do so and express their opinion

And I have every right to call them an ignorant fool :P

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The reason drivers are like Alonso and Hakkinen are included is partially because I wanted to reduce the risk of too many people voting 'other', but mostly because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I considered that there may be a slight chance that some people here may possibly see Alonso or Hakkinen as being the greatest ever. Not me, of course, not in a million years, but they're in there just in case. And its a good thing I did, because evidently someone does think Mika Hakkinen is the greatest driver F1 has seen.

You are of course entitled to create your own poll with your own perfect list, as mine is clearly heavily flawed in your eyes; however I dont expect you will do so as you appear to take much more enjoyment from bringing down this one and living up to your old title of 'argumentative indian'!!!

Besides forgetting Giles, it's as good as it can be :thbup:

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Where's Nuvolari? Waht are Hakkinen, Alonso and Raikkonen doing up there? You should have put Button too, while you were at it. You had to sneak Mansell and Stewart in too? I mean really, come on. Fatsell, greatest driver in the world? haha

Don

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Uh huh ,Jem, Schumacher means Michael ,right?

yes its safe to assume Schumacher is the elder version

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Yes he did, Argento, but then many drivers from that era had a bit of class and sportsmanship about them. I don't know myself because I haven't seen enough of that era, but my Dad's opinion is that Moss just shaded it on his all round driving ability, driving in other classes of racing. Fangio is reputed to have said 'I cannot judge what my eyes cannot see' when referring to non open-wheel racing.

Fangio won many TC races at Argentina before to start his F1 career. Argentine TC those days was a kind of today Rally but with longer distances. Nevertheless he wasn

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Fangio won many TC races at Argentina before to start his F1 career. Argentine TC those days was a kind of today Rally but with longer distances. Nevertheless he wasn

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Yes, Alonso won the Mille Miglia too, didn't he?

Let me quote a famous TF1 member: "Irrelevant!" :P That's not even an argument! You can do better than that ;)

Different era, people drove races more than the championship.

Including Mr. Can't beat a rookie fresh out of racing school in a poll like this is laughable.

That is just a dig at Alonso fans, not an argument, either. Mr. "Can' beat a rookie blah blah blah" beat Schumi, so I guess that makes Schumi's appearance in this list even more laughable...Shall we really continue this line of reasoning?

Geez, is it impossible to look without those thick Alonso goggles at anything? Stirling Moss was unlucky to not win a title, and F1 at that time was not the unique pinnacle of open wheel racing, there were fewer races and all drivers drove in other races. Alonso has had a sum total of two good years in F1 in his entire career.

My Alonso googles are thick? Are you sure it is not some distortion made by your Cavallino googles? :P Again, not an argument, unless I said without noticing anywhere that Alonso is the greatest of all time (in fact, I said he isn't) and that Moss sucked. We are discussing on what grounds should someone be included on that list. As there are no clear indication on what criteria was used, I still maintain that being a WDC is certainly the most obvious criteria to include someone in that list. Much more obvious than "X was a great driver but unlucky". If that is a criteria, then include Chris Amon there. Like I said, not an argument.

What's a pintoresque story and why is that relevant? I mentjoned Nuvolari becaues he was better than those two.

Rosenmeyer's story is not relevant, that was just a comment, sorry if it sounded like it has anything to do with all this. Nuvolari was better...based on what? Quantity of GPs won? Then we have yet another criteria. If, we consider it a valid criteria then you are right, Nuvolari should be there.

Look back to my last post - comparison aginst peers, I feel that every era has great drivers of high standards, therefore the ones that stand above their peers are the greatest. Alonso has a long way to go. Except in the eyes of his fans of course.

I give you this, Cav: your argumenting style is some kind of labyrinth where you flood people with secondary arguments and non sequiturs and then you smash them while they are entangled discussing some minor point, or biting their tails after you made circles around them. Certainly would not want to have you against me in a trial if you were a lawyer :lol:

"The ones that stand above their peers are the greatest"??? And how do you measure that? Wins? Driving aestethically better? Better looks? Outqualifying? Outracing?

You need the criteria AND the info. You agreed with me in your previous post, now you disagree. :wacko:

We got a new friend here who'd want to vote for Kubeetza. Doesn't mean he should be in the poll. Why is it so hard for people to defend their opinions, why does everything have to be personal?

This line...

Eh? How does that justify his inclusion, that some ignorant fool has voted for him?

...contradicts this one :lol:

Offtopic: This is a question I've always wanted to ask you. Do you get as mad as you sound when you post? Or is it just the limitations of written speech that give us that impression? I am asking this with no second intentions :D I wonder how my posts sound...

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Impossible to compare drivers over so many different era's like many of you have said, but if forced to put my two cents worth in I would go for Senna, he drove in the transition period between old school F1 and the modern era, and proved to have what it takes in both.

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Impossible to compare drivers over so many different era's like many of you have said, but if forced to put my two cents worth in I would go for Senna, he drove in the transition period between old school F1 and the modern era, and proved to have what it takes in both.

Yes, thats what I have been trying to convey to few ignorant fools. Fools who consider others as fools just because he/she voted for a driver who they may not find great.

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Michael Schumacher.

Alonso & Kimi have yet to complete their careers or yet to have achieve significant results to be included in the list.

Alonso has, since he is the youngest Winner, WDC and B2B WDC. Surely thats enough to get a spot in such a poll.

I think this whole thing is a bad idea though, how many of us ever saw half these driver's careers?

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uuugh, I hate choosing between Senna, Lauda, Fittipaldi, and Steward. I grew up in the 70's, and Niki Lauda and Emerson Fittipaldi were as worshipped then as Schumi is (was) nowadays. Steward was a legend, bigger than life. Tough choice. I think Lauda for being an absolute gentlemen on the track (the top 4 drivers of 2007 could learn a lot from him - keeping their mouth shut should be the first lesson, the arrogant brats).

I'll never forget horror of watching him burn during the evening news- his accident was THE highlight of the day everywhere

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