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Hamilton: "it Is Something I Have To Live With. I've Number Two On My Car And I Am The Number Two Driver"

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BTW, I really enjoy posts by Schumacher fans talking about team orders & number 2 drivers...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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i dont think anyone's claiming that Hamilton would've got past, but some people are just angry that we wasnt given the opportunity to at least try.

I disagree that Hamilton 'lost pole', he was compromised in qualifying by having a heavier tank of fuel, but instead of then going longer than Alonso in the race, he was called in only 1 lap later. This is why people have an issue.

Here's Jackie Stewart's thoughts:

Stewart backs McLaren on Hamilton

Sir Jackie Stewart says McLaren did nothing wrong in preventing Lewis Hamilton challenging team-mate Fernando Alonso for victory in Monaco.

Formula One rules say "team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited" and governing body the FIA has launched an investigation.

But former team owner Stewart said: "I saw nothing wrong with what occurred."

The triple world champion said asking drivers to back off to make sure of the GP win "was the wise thing to do".

Talking to BBC Radio Five Live, Stewart said "the right man won", although he added that Hamilton had also driven a "beautiful race".

The 66-year-old said Alonso was "on pole oposition, he made a very good start, he took a lead that allowed him to have a good clear bit of air behind him.

It's very difficult to start telling team owners that if you are running first and second that you should keep driving your drivers to the absolute limit of their ability

Stewart said Monaco could not be compared with Ferrari's infamous decision to ask Rubens Barrichello to move over and hand Michael Schumacher the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix.

That decision led to the current rule on team orders being added to F1's sporting regulations.

"The Schumacher-Barrichello case was blatant - he reduced his speed by maybe 30 or 40mph to have Schumacher pass him before the finishing line," Stewart said.

"It was a pretty blatant thing, it wasn't enjoyed by the crowd, it wasn't enjoyed by the media.

"But it's a very difficult thing to start telling team owners that if you are running first and second that you should keep driving your drivers to the absolute limit of their ability.

"I think it was a great result for Lewis Hamilton to finish second in the Monaco Grand Prix and get another podium finish.

"What if he had tried a little bit too hard in these last laps in Monaco and slid off the race track, hit a barrier and taken the Mclaren out of the race?

"Valuable world championship points would have been lost by McLaren."

Stewart added that he believed Hamilton would win races in his debut season.

"He is a remarkable young man and I think we are going to see him winning Grands Prix," he said.

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Anyone who has watched more than 3 races in their life and who watched this race would have seen Hamilton would not have beaten Alonso.

Alonso clearly had the measure of the young Brit all weekend & too be honest I think Mclaren did Hamilton a big favour with the call because honestly he was looking ragged trying to keep up with the Spaniard! He surely would have hit the wall sooner rather than later in the swimming pool section!

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how come no one seems to have taken notice of the fact that alonso was ALSO TOLD TO SLOW DOWN. hamilton seemed faster because he disobeyed orders and went as fast as he could while alonso went slower as he was told. people dont realize this and think that hamilton was a lot faster. that is not true, alonso showed he was just as fast as hamilton, if not faster, by setting the fastest lap. and u guys all make it seem like hamilton would have passed alonso if ron let them race. at most he was 1-2 tenths faster than alonso at certain stages, how do u think he could pass on monaco? even on a normal track it's near impossible to pass when u're only 1-2 tenths faster but this is monaco.

there was no way he could have passed alonso during the pitstops, even if he was 5 laps longer (more like 3 cuz alonso conserved 2 laps fuel), he was like 10 seconds behind alonso, so even if he was faster than alonso by 2 seconds a lap on the in laps (no point in the race was he 2 seconds a lap faster), he would not have passed alonso at the pitstops.

lewis was brilliant in this race but he lost pole and alonso at the very least, matched hamilton in the race so i dont see why everyone thinks alonso would have lost. i also dont see why they are investigating the team...alonso was leading, in austria barichello was leading and was forced to move over from the lead. this situation is different. mclaren lapped the whole field and was 69 secs ahead of massa, it's common sense that ron told them to take it easy, not only to avoid an accident but also to preserve the car since the engine has to go one more race. ferrari, and renault have done this before as well so i dont see whats the big deal. last year there was a race where it was reported that alonso was held from using his top 500rpm's because he was in the lead and wanted to preserve his engine. then at turkey, he was running low revs for all laps except during the 4 high speed turns. it's just smart driving to preserve the tyres and the car. ron and mclaren did nothing wrong hamilton is just mad he lost pole.

That about sums up my objections to the "team orders stole Lewis maiden win" theory.

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18 of the 20 fastest laps were Alonso's, but of course Hamilton was going to win without being told to cool down :lol: (Atleast thats what I saw elsewhere)

HAHAHAHAHA :clap3:

IIRC Alonso was some 12 seconds ahead before the last stop, and Hamilton came out like 3 second sbehind him... I wonder if alonso was cruising? :rolleyes:

Look at Alonso's 2 out laps... He was flying after the first stop almost Matching The falling god's times, After the second he was def cruising!

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Anyone who has watched more than 3 races in their life and who watched this race would have seen Hamilton would not have beaten Alonso.

Alonso clearly had the measure of the young Brit all weekend & too be honest I think Mclaren did Hamilton a big favour with the call because honestly he was looking ragged trying to keep up with the Spaniard! He surely would have hit the wall sooner rather than later in the swimming pool section!

you underestimate him, he didnt hit the wall and probably wouldnt have hit the wall if he'd carried on pushing.

Yes Alonso did have the measure of Lewis in the race but the issue is mclaren preventing them from racing, so stop ranting about how great Alonso is cos we dont care! You're missing the point!

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Stewart backs McLaren on Hamilton

Sir Jackie Stewart says McLaren did nothing wrong in preventing Lewis Hamilton challenging team-mate Fernando Alonso for victory in Monaco.

Formula One rules say "team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited" and governing body the FIA has launched an investigation.

But former team owner Stewart said: "I saw nothing wrong with what occurred."

The triple world champion said asking drivers to back off to make sure of the GP win "was the wise thing to do".

Talking to BBC Radio Five Live, Stewart said "the right man won", although he added that Hamilton had also driven a "beautiful race".

The 66-year-old said Alonso was "on pole oposition, he made a very good start, he took a lead that allowed him to have a good clear bit of air behind him.

It's very difficult to start telling team owners that if you are running first and second that you should keep driving your drivers to the absolute limit of their ability

Stewart said Monaco could not be compared with Ferrari's infamous decision to ask Rubens Barrichello to move over and hand Michael Schumacher the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix.

That decision led to the current rule on team orders being added to F1's sporting regulations.

"The Schumacher-Barrichello case was blatant - he reduced his speed by maybe 30 or 40mph to have Schumacher pass him before the finishing line," Stewart said.

"It was a pretty blatant thing, it wasn't enjoyed by the crowd, it wasn't enjoyed by the media.

"But it's a very difficult thing to start telling team owners that if you are running first and second that you should keep driving your drivers to the absolute limit of their ability.

"I think it was a great result for Lewis Hamilton to finish second in the Monaco Grand Prix and get another podium finish.

"What if he had tried a little bit too hard in these last laps in Monaco and slid off the race track, hit a barrier and taken the Mclaren out of the race?

"Valuable world championship points would have been lost by McLaren."

Stewart added that he believed Hamilton would win races in his debut season.

"He is a remarkable young man and I think we are going to see him winning Grands Prix," he said.

Stewart needs a kick up his a##! he's commentating too much Sh#t lately... :D

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i thought Hamilton was only 4 laps heavier?

5-6. And on a one stopper. What new information did moRon get in the race that he didn't have earlier that made him screw up Lewis' strategy?

Andres, none of that answers the questions I asked above, before we address why moRon needed to tell his drivers to hold position on lap 10, and then rig the pit stops to prevent chances of a pit stop pass, someone needs to explain those. From you I expect answers. Not from Wez.

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you underestimate him, he didnt hit the wall and probably wouldnt have hit the wall if he'd carried on pushing.

Yes Alonso did have the measure of Lewis in the race but the issue is mclaren preventing them from racing, so stop ranting about how great Alonso is cos we dont care! You're missing the point!

I think honestly im one of the few posters in this thread who has a point!

Gauranteed Hamilton would have hit the wall before Alonso... <_<

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you underestimate him, he didnt hit the wall and probably wouldnt have hit the wall if he'd carried on pushing.

He said he hit the wall a few times.

5-6. And on a one stopper. What new information did moRon get in the race that he didn't have earlier that made him screw up Lewis' strategy?

The super softs would really have worked well for him for the rest of the race... :rolleyes:

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I think honestly im one of the few posters in this thread who has a point!

Gauranteed Hamilton would have hit the wall before Alonso... <_<

Whether Hamilton would've hit the wall is besides the point. As is your comment about Alonso being so much better than Hamilton all weekend (which is an exaggeration in my opinion, but thats again besides the point).

The issue is that Hamilton was not allowed to race his team-mate, and whether McLaren broke the rules by making such an order. The issue is also whether McLaren deliberately called Hamilton for his first pit stop early, thereby wrecking his strategy (he had more fuel than Alonso) and giving Hamilton pretty much zero chance of beating Alonso.

Alonso got my driver of the day but the mclaren drivers were very close in terms of performance and sadly we dont really have any way of knowing whether Lewis was indeed called in early just to ensure that Alonso was protected.

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Whether Hamilton would've hit the wall is besides the point. As is your comment about Alonso being so much better than Hamilton all weekend (which is an exaggeration in my opinion, but thats again besides the point).

The issue is that Hamilton was not allowed to race his team-mate, and whether McLaren broke the rules by making such an order. The issue is also whether McLaren deliberately called Hamilton for his first pit stop early, thereby wrecking his strategy (he had more fuel than Alonso) and giving Hamilton pretty much zero chance of beating Alonso.

Alonso got my driver of the day but the mclaren drivers were very close in terms of performance and sadly we dont really have any way of knowing whether Lewis was indeed called in early just to ensure that Alonso was protected.

They weren't close at all. Apparently the non British media hasn't had much to say on the subject, and have been busy talking about a great win by McLaren... I wonder why.

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They weren't close at all. Apparently the non British media hasn't had much to say on the subject, and have been busy talking about a great win by McLaren... I wonder why.

I havent read any British press on the race to be honest, but I do know FIA have launched an investigation, so surely that means something

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I think honestly im one of the few posters in this thread who has a point!

Yes, for sure, quite honestly :rolleyes:

The super softs would really have worked well for him for the rest of the race... :rolleyes:

Which is obivously something that moRon realised during the race, and not say on Friday or Saturday when Lewis was doing endurance runs?

Whether Hamilton would've hit the wall is besides the point. As is your comment about Alonso being so much better than Hamilton all weekend (which is an exaggeration in my opinion, but thats again besides the point).

It's not an exaggeration, it is plain false, borne out of ignorance, or more likely stupidity accompanied by selective blindness to facts.

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5-6. And on a one stopper. What new information did moRon get in the race that he didn't have earlier that made him screw up Lewis' strategy?

Andres, none of that answers the questions I asked above, before we address why moRon needed to tell his drivers to hold position on lap 10, and then rig the pit stops to prevent chances of a pit stop pass, someone needs to explain those. From you I expect answers. Not from Wez.

You sound too polite...that scares me! :lol:

I am sorry but I have no answers to give you. Situation seems too confusing and I am lost with lots of contradictory and incomplete information. Anything I can tell you can be easily dismissed as wild guesses. I am an Alonso fan thus my position is that he could have won the race even against an unrestricted Lewis. If you dislike Alonso, you will tend to think that Hamilton could have won with those seconds he lost due to the bogus strategy. It will be just a discussion on a hypotethicall situation, and then our different bias will play a major part.

All I can say is this:

1) I think there were team orders, Ron admitted them (and that alone calls for a penalization, just for being so stupid as to say what he said). I don't think they influenced the result of the race. LH pushed like a demon and Alonso faced the challenge accordingly. Passing Alonso on track was out of the question, LH seemed closer to an accident than Alonso, who drove as fast or faster than Lewis without needing to touch every wall in the circuit. Both drivers didn't seem to have sticked to a srcipt, they seem to battle until the last 10-5 laps, same would have happened if it was Massa instead of Alonso in 1st place. Telling your drivers to "take it easy" is not a blatant manipulation. It is, nonetheless, illegal, if you admit it, of course. :P

2) The pitstop strategy seems to have been really bogus according to what you all say. If that is the case, either it was a bad race for Lewis strategists (would not be the first time a fron driver is hindered by an awful strategy. Barrichello, Schumi, Alonso, Raikkonen...they all suffered at some point from a race they could have easily won if it weren't fro stupid strategies).

It could also be a gross manipulation from the pit (and Dennis comments seem to point that way). In that case it would be really unfair...but not illegal. Anyways, I still don't think the fuel issue and change of strategy enough to give Alonso a clear advantage over Lewis. Again, entering hypotethical grounds here but my guess was that if Lewis had stuck to a one stop strategy, Alonso would have pushed harder and still kept enough air to remain on front.

Guess these won't satisfy anybody, but those are my opinions whether you like them or not :lol:

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how come no one seems to have taken notice of the fact that alonso was ALSO TOLD TO SLOW DOWN. hamilton seemed faster because he disobeyed orders and went as fast as he could while alonso went slower as he was told. people dont realize this and think that hamilton was a lot faster. that is not true, alonso showed he was just as fast as hamilton, if not faster, by setting the fastest lap. and u guys all make it seem like hamilton would have passed alonso if ron let them race. at most he was 1-2 tenths faster than alonso at certain stages, how do u think he could pass on monaco? even on a normal track it's near impossible to pass when u're only 1-2 tenths faster but this is monaco.

there was no way he could have passed alonso during the pitstops, even if he was 5 laps longer (more like 3 cuz alonso conserved 2 laps fuel), he was like 10 seconds behind alonso, so even if he was faster than alonso by 2 seconds a lap on the in laps (no point in the race was he 2 seconds a lap faster), he would not have passed alonso at the pitstops.

lewis was brilliant in this race but he lost pole and alonso at the very least, matched hamilton in the race so i dont see why everyone thinks alonso would have lost. i also dont see why they are investigating the team...alonso was leading, in austria barichello was leading and was forced to move over from the lead. this situation is different. mclaren lapped the whole field and was 69 secs ahead of massa, it's common sense that ron told them to take it easy, not only to avoid an accident but also to preserve the car since the engine has to go one more race. ferrari, and renault have done this before as well so i dont see whats the big deal. last year there was a race where it was reported that alonso was held from using his top 500rpm's because he was in the lead and wanted to preserve his engine. then at turkey, he was running low revs for all laps except during the 4 high speed turns. it's just smart driving to preserve the tyres and the car. ron and mclaren did nothing wrong hamilton is just mad he lost pole.

If Lewis had qualified with the same fuel as Fernando, fuel adjusted, he would have had pole. On the same fuel Lewis would have been quicker and he would have won.

Lewis has every right to be mad if he didn't get pole because his strategy was compromised.

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If Lewis had qualified with the same fuel as Fernando, fuel adjusted, he would have had pole. On the same fuel Lewis would have been quicker and he would have won.

Lewis has every right to be mad if he didn't get pole because his strategy was compromised.

just cuz he has less fuel doesnt mean he would have had pole. it gives the car the potential to go faster, doesnt necessarily mean he will. with that logic i can easily say that kimi would have won the 2003 championship if he didnt crash on the grid from the race where he qualified in the back. or kimi would have won 2005 if he didnt have so many engine troubles or that he would beat alonso in 2006 at monaco (he was clearly faster than alonso). but thats all theory, the fact that it didnt happen is fact. u cant simply say hamilton would have been automatically faster. his strategy got compromised by 2-3 laps, however he was 10 seconds behind. even if as u claim, alonso was slower, do u seriously think hamilton could pull back 10 seconds in 3 laps? u're in delusion if u think that. plus if u look at the first stint, alonso pulled out many seconds, hamilton was heavier on fuel but if he were as fast as alonso he wouldnt have been 8 seconds behind after 10 laps. he was barely going faster than massa until massa hit traffic. and on the same fuel lewis was not faster this is proven by the fact that alonso had the fastest lap so stop with ur lies.

and his qualification strategy was never compromised. he qualified on the fuel he decided to use. he said he had 5 laps more fuel but he could easily have only put 2 laps more and qualified on that instead. then he might have gone even faster and grabbed pole. he didnt do it that's his fault. he couldnt keep up with alonso in the first stint, thats also his fault. after the 1st stint alonso had no reason to go faster any more so he just drove around until the end. hamilton lost the race cuz he wasnt fast enough not cuz ron told him to slow down. ron never told him to slow down in qualifying and since that is where he lost the race, it makes no difference what ron told both drivers in the car. ron was just trying to bring the cars home.

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Personally I think the whole discussion of Lewis being quicker than Alonso is mute. I think, yes, he may have been a bit quicker than Alonso.... but not quick enough to pass him. period!.

That being said...I can't wait to see the Canadian GP when there will be quite a few opportunities to pass. Bring it on !

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If Lewis had qualified with the same fuel as Fernando, fuel adjusted, he would have had pole. On the same fuel Lewis would have been quicker and he would have won.

Lewis has every right to be mad if he didn't get pole because his strategy was compromised.

Regarding team orders I agree with Quiet One's explanation above

Too many ifs dribbler... Let's see some facts:

My understanding is that right now, at McLaren, who ever is fastest on Q2 gets to choose which one of the two strategies designed by the team he wants for Q3. The other pilot has to cope with with the second strategy (I am not 100% sure so if someone knows better please let us know).

At least this has been the case in this first 5 races of the championship. FA has been faster than LH on Q2 in all the races up unitol now including Monaco, except at Bahrein and in all those races, he got the lower fuel strategy in order to be able to fight for the pole. LH did so at Bahrein.

Out of the 10 best times of all drivers during the race, FA set 8 of them vs LH 2. This were the times and the lap on which they were set:

1 ALO 1:15.284 Lap 44

2 ALO 1:15.344 Lap 48

3 HAM 1:15.372 Lap 28

4 ALO 1:15.440 Lap 46

5 ALO 1:15.443 Lap 47

6 HAM 1:15.454 Lap 48

7 ALO 1:15.462 Lap 28

8 ALO 1:15.500 Lap 43

9 ALO 1:15.507 Lap 49

10 ALO 1:15.514 Lap 42

They clearly show who was the fastest of the two pilots. But they also show both of them clearly fighting for the win long into the second stint of the race.

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Because they're not robots. You would of thought every race was fixed back in the 90's, if thats the kind of thing you think proves it. If that radio call to settle down came before his pit stop, that would also explain why he came in early. Ron probably thought he'd bin it trying to win it, in frustration. In all fairness he did look close to doing it a few times, even at the end of the race when they weren't going that quick.

The kid has an ego, if he is going to blow up like that at his race engineer. What kind of idiot team would let their drivers fight the whole way around Monaco, when they just about lapped everyone else? It'd be a ridiculous move and everyone would be laughing at them had one or both of them crashed doing that.

So Alonso had Robots to fix his car in pits? :mf_tongue:

I know he has ego, but he has so little when compared to many drivers who haven't enjoyed even half the success he has. I am asking you the question. Hamilton had a clear pit strategy advantage, Hamilton could have jumped Alonso in the pits, and thats where he was held. I wish Ron shut his mouth. I never guessed there where team orders, otherwise it was a fantastic race yesterday.

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just cuz he has less fuel doesnt mean he would have had pole. it gives the car the potential to go faster, doesnt necessarily mean he will. with that logic i can easily say that kimi would have won the 2003 championship if he didnt crash on the grid from the race where he qualified in the back. or kimi would have won 2005 if he didnt have so many engine troubles or that he would beat alonso in 2006 at monaco (he was clearly faster than alonso). but thats all theory, the fact that it didnt happen is fact. u cant simply say hamilton would have been automatically faster. his strategy got compromised by 2-3 laps, however he was 10 seconds behind. even if as u claim, alonso was slower, do u seriously think hamilton could pull back 10 seconds in 3 laps? u're in delusion if u think that. plus if u look at the first stint, alonso pulled out many seconds, hamilton was heavier on fuel but if he were as fast as alonso he wouldnt have been 8 seconds behind after 10 laps. he was barely going faster than massa until massa hit traffic. and on the same fuel lewis was not faster this is proven by the fact that alonso had the fastest lap so stop with ur lies.

and his qualification strategy was never compromised. he qualified on the fuel he decided to use. he said he had 5 laps more fuel but he could easily have only put 2 laps more and qualified on that instead. then he might have gone even faster and grabbed pole. he didnt do it that's his fault. he couldnt keep up with alonso in the first stint, thats also his fault. after the 1st stint alonso had no reason to go faster any more so he just drove around until the end. hamilton lost the race cuz he wasnt fast enough not cuz ron told him to slow down. ron never told him to slow down in qualifying and since that is where he lost the race, it makes no difference what ron told both drivers in the car. ron was just trying to bring the cars home.

You are missing the point. I have said already many times that it doesn't make sense to compromise a teams potential to bring two cars home in first and second places. What i am saying is that Lewis's potential to win was decided before the race, not during.

Too many ifs dribbler...

Only one if. If Lewis had not been too heavy, that's all.

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18 of the 20 fastest laps were Alonso's, but of course Hamilton was going to win without being told to cool down :lol: (Atleast thats what I saw elsewhere)

IIRC Alonso was some 12 seconds ahead before the last stop, and Hamilton came out like 3 second sbehind him... I wonder if alonso was cruising? :rolleyes:

Yes he was, just the same way he's been cruising all this season.

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Yep too much nonsense from the Church Of Hamilton. Alonso would have won while Hamilton would have crashed on some sidewalls with a broken suspension had he continued like that.

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If Lewis had qualified with the same fuel as Fernando, fuel adjusted, he would have had pole. On the same fuel Lewis would have been quicker and he would have won.

Lewis has every right to be mad if he didn't get pole because his strategy was compromised.

Exactly. On pure pace Lewis is at least very close to Fernando already. He's probably made fewer and less important mistakes so far too.

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"It is something I have to live with. I've number two on my car and I am the number two driver."

Once you start down that dark road, forever will it dominate your destiny.

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