Bernie's Cavalier Attitude Towards Us G. P

[Eric 0]

Fine, fine, you win. I is a-reckonin i are a stupid ameriken i rekin now if youll scuse a-me is gots to go rassle with some ally-gators an drink me some budwiser now ya'll keep up yer gud spellin and get yerself one o them there diplomas ya here?

Yeah. Brain fart. Hygiene. Heh.

-Eric

[Eric 0]

I certainly thought that he huge "Vodafone" banner above start/finish at Indy was ironic & telling of the intended audience.

Now, being a stupid American and all, I'm sure I misinterpreted this, but...Vodafone has more money than say, Earl Lee's Car Repair, because Vodafone is international, Earl Lee's is not. The intended audience is the television viewers, as they outnumber the Americans and the people at the track. Vodafone could've advertised as Verizon Wireless, which they own 44.4% of, but they did not, since Verizon is not international. Sure, Budweiser is an American company with an international prescense, but hey, if you want a USGP, the TG fund can take all the money it can get.

-Eric

[StoneIsland 0]

Vegas with a nice new track a la Turkey would be nice.

Watkins Glen ?!

In Indy F1 always be in the shadow, and quite frankly that's a shame since the 500 and Indy car is basically dead.

Watkins Glen? I suppose you could fly into Buffalo and then drive over. New York city is only 4 or 5 hours away. Of course, where would the people stay? Ithaca, Ny? From my experience at Indy, I don't have the impression that Europeans are much interested in camping out.

[DOF_power 0]

The crowds are nice, but television audiences is what matters.

The days of huge crowds in GP are gone.

In the 1930s you'd get up to 350 000 people, more than Indy or Le Mans, now you'd be lucky with 1/3 of that.

[StoneIsland 0]

Vegas with a nice new track a la Turkey would be nice.

Watkins Glen ?!

In Indy F1 always be in the shadow, and quite frankly that's a shame since the 500 and Indy car is basically dead.

Watkins Glen? I suppose you could fly into Buffalo and then drive over. New York city is only 4 or 5 hours away. Of course, where would the people stay? Ithaca, Ny? From my experience at Indy, I don't have the impression that Europeans are much interested in camping out.

By the way, what does "basically dead" mean? 267,925 people in the stands on race day can't be wrong, can they?

[StoneIsland 0]

The crowds are nice, but television audiences is what matters.

The days of huge crowds in GP are gone.

In the 1930s you'd get up to 350 000 people, more than Indy or Le Mans, now you'd be lucky with 1/3 of that.

350,000 people? Sure you would. Indianapolis was notorious for exagerating the numbers of those in attendance. Used to be that you'd hear that there were 400,000 or 500,000 in the stands on race day. That is, until someone counted the number of seats and estimated the number of people who could stand in the infield.

Now, unless you have some good data, I would think it safe to assume that your 350,000 is an exageration, a bit of rhetoric meant to make the event special in the eyes of the media. No harm intended, of course.

[DOF_power 0]

>

^ Freedom, inovation, flair, international appeal.

Now you only get spec car racing.

[DOF_power 0]

350,000 people? Sure you would. Indianapolis was notorious for exagerating the numbers of those in attendance. Used to be that you'd hear that there were 400,000 or 500,000 in the stands on race day. That is, until someone counted the number of seats and estimated the number of people who could stand in the infield.

Now, unless you have some good data, I would think it safe to assume that your 350,000 is an exageration, a bit of rhetoric meant to make the event special in the eyes of the media. No harm intended, of course.

When Caracciola, Rosemeyer and Nuvolari were to battle it out, the crowds were enourmous. The 1936 German GP was such an event.

That's why it was called the golden era of GP racing.

It was a time of immense technical progress and development. It was a time of some of the most spectacular cars and magnificent races ever seen.It was a time of some of the greatest drivers ever: Nuvolari, Rosemeyer, Caracciola, Varzi, Wimille, Chiron...

Cars of up to 646 hp driving to speed of up to 380 Km/h on the AVUS, and over 400 Km/h on the autobahns. The mighty Sliver Arrow titans.

Indy and/or Le Mans were consolation prices.

On the Avus the cars reached 380 Km/h, and the lap average speed of 1937 is the fastest ever in GP racing.

[Buckheadschleife 0]

Now, being a stupid American and all, I'm sure I misinterpreted this, but...Vodafone has more money than say, Earl Lee's Car Repair, because Vodafone is international, Earl Lee's is not. The intended audience is the television viewers, as they outnumber the Americans and the people at the track. Vodafone could've advertised as Verizon Wireless, which they own 44.4% of, but they did not, since Verizon is not international. Sure, Budweiser is an American company with an international prescense, but hey, if you want a USGP, the TG fund can take all the money it can get.

-Eric

Sorry - guess I should have clarified.

Earlier in the post we were speaking of the importance of the television audience rather than the local spectators at the track. We were also talking about the American business interests in F1 being so prominent... so I was saying that it was ironic that the prominent American companies didn't have a lot of signage at the american track. Anyways - interesting about vodafone owning such a large stake in Verizon.

[StoneIsland 0]

Sorry - guess I should have clarified.

Earlier in the post we were speaking of the importance of the television audience rather than the local spectators at the track. We were also talking about the American business interests in F1 being so prominent... so I was saying that it was ironic that the prominent American companies didn't have a lot of signage at the american track. Anyways - interesting about vodafone owning such a large stake in Verizon.

Who retains the rights to sell said signage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't one company (a European company btw) own the rights to all the signage at all the tracks, a right bought from FOM?

In any event, would the T.V. numbers from America in particular be better or worse with or without Indianapolis?

[Eric 0]

In any event, would the T.V. numbers from America in particular be better or worse with or without Indianapolis?

Probably the same. F1 is a niche sport here, I don't think any fans would stop watching if there was no race. The ratings at Indy were a 1.0 in the US, Canada had a 1.1. The SPEED numbers aren't available. TV numbers are about the same as last year on CBS, a little worse, which is a shame since the SPEED numbers were up 50% last year. Of course, the TV numbers could be down from CBS because Montreal and Indianapolis are events many American fans attend. To make a long deal short, I think TV numbers will stay the same, even if fans feel alienated by Bernard.

As to Buckheadschliefe, most of the American companies spend their money on the NFL, MLB, and NASCAR. However, it is a bit strange that you do have AT&T, ExxonMobil, FedEx, Intel, etc involved in F1, so you are right. Similarly, though not American companies, the car manufactures in F1 SHOULD be putting money into the USGP since they all say they want to come here. Yet they don't. So, I'll say it again. Until the car manufactures get off their lazy asses, not much is gunna happen. Also, I'm a bit disappointed that companies like Red Bull and Monster don't get involved with the big energy drink fad in the States. Also, McDonald's is involved with ChampCar and have claimed to have intentions of doing something similar to the Red Bull Driver Search before, but never did it. A few months ago, F1 Racing said they began advertising at F1 websites, which is interesting. I recall McDonald's Happy Meals coming with F1 toys in '99 or '00, actually.

-Eric

[Shane2 0]

Why should the car companies pay for it? They don't fund any other races, so why should they do favours to a circuit in one of the richest countries in the world.

[Eric 0]

Why should the car companies pay for it? They don't fund any other races, so why should they do favours to a circuit in one of the richest countries in the world.

I'm not saying they have to, I'm just saying that since the manufactures are supportive of the USGP and don't want Bernie to pull out, but if they don't put any money into it, than them talking means nothing.

As for the American companies, how much does it cost to get a sign at a race? I'd be interested to know. It's probably a lot since the ads are obnoxiously large and you see them every lap. I'd assume that's why AT&T doesn't advertise at Indy. They're deal with Williams is, as strange as it sounds, only $10,000,000 (RBS is $25mil and Lenovo is $10-15mil), so they aren't putting that much money into F1. AMD is only some helmet decals and a rear wing decal on Ferrari, but I believe they are associated with the FIA. Still, they don't spend a lot on F1. Budweiser, though not in F1 anymore, was also a small deal with Williams and spend so much money on other ads there's no way they'd do F1. Intel has no excuse. Phillip Morris does have the money, but they can't advertise as Marlboro in the USA, and their other brands aren't international (for example, Oreo, which is in the USA by Nabisco which is Phillip Morris, but is distributed by Kristie elsewhere).

-Eric

[DOF_power 0]

>

^ Even if in the US F1 had Nascar ratings, it would still not be enough.

You'd need something between American Idol and the Olympics.

[StoneIsland 0]

When Caracciola, Rosemeyer and Nuvolari were to battle it out, the crowds were enourmous. The 1936 German GP was such an event.

Indy and/or Le Mans were consolation prices.

A paean to Germany in the late 30's? Odd. In any case, without data, your historical reminiscence is largely useless for comparative purposes because, as I

[Jean Todt 4]

When Caracciola, Rosemeyer and Nuvolari were to battle it out, the crowds were enourmous. The 1936 German GP was such an event.

That's why it was called the golden era of GP racing.

It was a time of immense technical progress and development. It was a time of some of the most spectacular cars and magnificent races ever seen.It was a time of some of the greatest drivers ever: Nuvolari, Rosemeyer, Caracciola, Varzi, Wimille, Chiron...

Cars of up to 646 hp driving to speed of up to 380 Km/h on the AVUS, and over 400 Km/h on the autobahns. The mighty Sliver Arrow titans.

Indy and/or Le Mans were consolation prices.

On the Avus the cars reached 380 Km/h, and the lap average speed of 1937 is the fastest ever in GP racing.

Nice to know about the speeds the cars reached. It can shame a Veyron actually considering the resources we enjoy for developing the fastest cars.

Where can I find more information on The mighty Sliver Arrow titans?

[Autumnpuma 0]

Bernie is full of crap. The US pulls in a good amount of TV audience (something like 40 million per race, I think) but that's not the relevant part of all this. The manufacturers sell far more cars in the US than they ever will to the Indians. There will continue to be a USGP, the only question is: Will it be at Indianapolis? I hope not. I've got my fingers crossed for a west coast venue...Long Beach or Laguna Seca.

[DOF_power 0]

A paean to Germany in the late 30's? Odd. In any case, without data, your historical reminiscence is largely useless for comparative purposes because, as I've already demonstrated, organizers have an interest in exaggerating attendance. For twenty years Indianapolis claimed that slightly less than half a million people were at the track on race day. The Indianapolis Star actually had to go in and count seats and estimate how many people the infield could accommodate, which lead them to estimate that only 260,000 or so could actually physically attend an event (though over Speed Week the number of bodies through the turnstiles, assuming a fair number of repeat visitors, could be much, much higher).

In any case, it is besides the point in the modern context, as F1 doesn't get the money from ticket sales, those are recouped by the track against the fee paid to host the race. Theoretically, they could hold the races with no spectators, for television consumption only.

Leif Snellman, Hans Etzrodt, Felix Muelas, Holger Merten, Jeroen Bruintjes, Marcel Visbeen, Dennis Drenthe, Mattijs Diepraam, Atlas F1 board by Autosport, 8W Forix.

Figures of ~ 350 000 people were recorde in Germany GP 1936, Italy Monza and Chechslovakia Brno.

And there is nothing odd.

In the 20s and 30s Germany was no. 1 in science and technology in the world.

Now ofcourse this is very deep research from some people, particulary Snellman, Muelas and Etzrodt. (on witch I have more faith that you BTW)

You could say the chechzs were wrong, and the italians, but not the germans. The third reich meticolously documented the holocaust invloving millions of people, by comparison GP races would have been a snap.

Regardless, GP racing never reached such figures of spectator attendance ever again.

[DOF_power 0]

Nice to know about the speeds the cars reached. It can shame a Veyron actually considering the resources we enjoy for developing the fastest cars.

Where can I find more information on The mighty Sliver Arrow titans?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSMa9NF-_UU&NR=1

Search

on youtube and watch the videos 6 to 10 I belive.

Also http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/

http://www.forix.com/8w/index.html

and Atlas F1 and F1 db boards

[Quiet One 15]

Bernie is full of crap. The US pulls in a good amount of TV audience (something like 40 million per race, I think) but that's not the relevant part of all this. The manufacturers sell far more cars in the US than they ever will to the Indians. There will continue to be a USGP, the only question is: Will it be at Indianapolis? I hope not. I've got my fingers crossed for a west coast venue...Long Beach or Laguna Seca.

Actually, Laguna Seca would make a great F1 track.

[DOF_power 0]

Bernie is full of crap. The US pulls in a good amount of TV audience (something like 40 million per race, I think) but that's not the relevant part of all this. The manufacturers sell far more cars in the US than they ever will to the Indians. There will continue to be a USGP, the only question is: Will it be at Indianapolis? I hope not. I've got my fingers crossed for a west coast venue...Long Beach or Laguna Seca.

I's be sursprised if 4 million americans watch an F1 race.

[Eric 0]

I's be sursprised if 4 million americans watch an F1 race.

Yeah, I think that when it's on FOX its a little less than 1.5 million

I think that if the USGP does stay, though, it will stay at Indianapolis. Where else can you hold a GP in the States? None of the tracks have the money for a GP, most are in obscure locations (Road America, Miller Motorsports Park), bad locations (Road Atlanta), etc. Unless some city like New York or Vegas decides they want a street race, I doubt Bernie will leave Indy if he keeps a GP in the States.

-Eric

[StoneIsland 0]

And there is nothing odd.

In the 20s and 30s Germany was no. 1 in science and technology in the world.

Now ofcourse this is very deep research from some people, particulary Snellman, Muelas and Etzrodt. (on witch I have more faith that you BTW)

You could say the chechzs were wrong, and the italians, but not the germans. The third reich meticolously documented the holocaust invloving millions of people, by comparison GP races would have been a snap.

Regardless, GP racing never reached such figures of spectator attendance ever again.

What a horrific and fatuous comparison. Now, do you mean to say that the German Government counted those people, or, as is more likely, did the promoters of the event report the number of people in attendance?

Just to reemphasize, in the United States, which certainly has been in the top five for science and technology in the world over the course of the 20th century, it was reported as fact by major media outlets, who never bothered to do any independent research, year after year, that just shy of half a million people attended the Indianapolis 500. It was only after someone said,

[Jean Todt 4]

and Atlas F1 and F1 db boards

Hey, thanx man!

[Shane2 0]

Bernie is full of crap. The US pulls in a good amount of TV audience (something like 40 million per race, I think) but that's not the relevant part of all this. The manufacturers sell far more cars in the US than they ever will to the Indians. There will continue to be a USGP, the only question is: Will it be at Indianapolis? I hope not. I've got my fingers crossed for a west coast venue...Long Beach or Laguna Seca.

Actually, Laguna Seca would make a great F1 track.

+1

Laguna Seca is a great track, and would be a much bigger test of driving skill than the current Indy circuit which is, to say the least, uninspiring