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Silas Talbot

Mclaren Stealing Ferrari Secrets?

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Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't seem like there's a recent thread on the Stepney/Coughlan debacle....

This is McLaren's chief designer for goodness sake. They apperantly found evidence in his house. Ron Dennis must be livid (that someone found out).

This is not the kind of press the team needs right now, esp bad for Lew Ham's legacy if he goes on to become the only rookie to ever win the championship. Ferrari is going to be strong, and I think they will be ahead or very close in points by the end of the year... this could end up being a major woking pain.

Thoughts? Will this be forgotten like Toyota's theft from Ferrari, or could it balloon into a season-changing scandal?

Maybe it is all a fraud, just another Maranello Machination =)

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Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't seem like there's a recent thread on the Stepney/Coughlan debacle....

This is McLaren's chief designer for goodness sake. They apperantly found evidence in his house. Ron Dennis must be livid (that someone found out).

This is not the kind of press the team needs right now, esp bad for Lew Ham's legacy if he goes on to become the only rookie to ever win the championship. Ferrari is going to be strong, and I think they will be ahead or very close in points by the end of the year... this could end up being a major woking pain.

Thoughts? Will this be forgotten like Toyota's theft from Ferrari, or could it balloon into a season-changing scandal?

Maybe it is all a fraud, just another Maranello Machination =)

I believe Jean Todt's house has much more tech info of the top teams than others. BTW, just kidding.

Since never trust Ferrari, I believe this is a ploy and trap by Ferrari to weaken their opponents.

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I believe Jean Todt's house has much more tech info of the top teams than others. BTW, just kidding.

Since never trust Ferrari, I believe this is a ploy and trap by Ferrari to weaken their opponents.

Well, if they find/manufacture/allude (choose one) enough evidence for a full-blown investigation, McLearen will never (read the next 2-3 years) clear it's name. And yes, Hamilton's accomplishments will be tarnished. However, if the press chooses to ignore it (say, to protect their favorite LH) or if there is not enough clear and straight forward evidence (so that an average person can understand in about 10 seconds the connections based on one short 3-paragraph article), this will dissapear into an obscurity.

So, toss the coin... <_<

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I think this article is great at summarizing the story so far:

It covers the white powder, the travel agency, Stepney being at Ferrari in 93 before JT, RB, MSC, the whole saga. McLaren's press statement today admitting some wrongdoing.

It's even been deemed "gate" worthy...

STEPNEYGATE!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60467

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I think this article is great at summarizing the story so far:

It covers the white powder, the travel agency, Stepney being at Ferrari in 93 before JT, RB, MSC, the whole saga. McLaren's press statement today admitting some wrongdoing.

It's even been deemed "gate" worthy...

STEPNEYGATE!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60467

Great article, thanks for posting.

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That explains how McLaren out of nowhere got rid of all the gremlins in their machinery in such a short period of time.

Ferrari were strong last year and carried the good form into this season. McLaren were utter crap in 2006 but lead the championship without faltering in 2007.

And the timing is so perfect... McLaren don't say anything all this while and all of a sudden once the investigation kicked off, they suspend an high ranking team member. Convenient don't you think?

Ferrari haters would be all over this if roles were reversed.

Scumbags.

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I believe Jean Todt's house has much more tech info of the top teams than others. BTW, just kidding.

Since never trust Ferrari, I believe this is a ploy and trap by Ferrari to weaken their opponents.

What the hell are you on? Get some proper perspective on the situation for god's sake, your ferrari hate is clouding your judgement!

*mumble* goodness gracious....

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I'm pretty sure this upcoming mess won't be 'just forgotten'. If they can link the stolen information and McLaren's performance, then according to my logic, it will have to show in their points. Of course it's always lame and unpleasant if things like these dedice the champions, so even as a Ferrari fan I kinda hope this case is a big exaggeration (but I doubt!) :naughty:

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>

^ Still rumors and speculations at this point.

Agree 100%. Until a clearer picture of the situation becomes available. All we have are some tidbits of information lost in an ocean of wild speculation from the f1 press which is hardly the most objective press around.

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^ Still rumors and speculations at this point.

I would'nt call it rumours and speculations when both senior members are suspended and Ferrari has taken legal action

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Yeah Ferrari do seem to be making serious allegations.

Utter rubbish!

:nono1:

Yeah. I don't see how it will affect his reputation.

What the hell are you on? Get some proper perspective on the situation for god's sake, your ferrari hate is clouding your judgement!

*mumble* goodness gracious....

:lol:

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Good analysis by autosport so far....

Analysis: the remarkable Stepneygate saga

By Adam Cooper Tuesday, July 3rd 2007, 23:03 GMT

'Stepneygate' has sent shock waves through Formula One in recent days, and Tuesday's news that a senior McLaren employee is involved in obtaining stolen documents belonging to Ferrari has added yet another dimension to the story.

Ferrari and McLaren have had a highly charged rivalry for three decades now, but this latest episode is perhaps the strangest yet.

The 'Dream Team' Disbanded

Nigel Stepney at the 2006 Japanese Grand PrixNigel Stepney began his motorsport career in the 1970s, when he worked for the Broadspeed touring car team, before moving through stints at Shadow and Lotus - where he worked with Ayrton Senna.

From 1988 to 1992 he was at Benetton as chief mechanic. He earned a reputation as a good organiser who paid attention to detail and kept the troops in line. That was just what Ferrari needed when he was head-hunted by former Benetton colleague John Barnard in 1993, shortly before Jean Todt joined the Italian team.

He knew Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne in his time at Benetton, so when they came to Maranello in 1996 and 1997, it was a reuniting of the old gang.

Through the Schumacher glory years, Stepney received a lot of the credit for getting the team on track, especially in terms of reliability and improved preparation. He also became better known after Schumacher ran him over during a pitstop in the 2000 Spanish Grand Prix; after that incident, he gave the lollipop job to someone else...

His job title changed from that of chief mechanic to that of race technical manager. He was clearly a key part of the 'Dream Team', and indeed on occasion he went on to the podium to represent Ferrari and pick up the constructors' trophy.

There was no reason to suspect he was anything but very happy at Ferrari until some time last year, when in conversation he casually mentioned that he was hoping to switch to a factory-based job in 2008.

Schumacher was about to announce his retirement, and Brawn was going on a sabbatical. Like them, Stepney used up a lot of energy through those championship-chasing years, and presumably he quite liked the idea of slowing down, thinking about new challenges.

But he also made it clear that with Schumacher not driving, and even more importantly with Brawn gone, the team would no longer be the same. In essence, he wasn't too happy about being involved in something that potentially was going to go downhill with a new regime in charge.

In fact, Stepney had quite a colourful way of expressing his feeling at the time, and his candour was quite surprising.

Then, during the winter, Stepney made his feeling publicly known in an interview with Autosport magazine, much to Ferrari's displeasure.

House Search at Casa Stepney

By the time Formula One arrived at Melbourne for the opening race of the season, there was no sign of Stepney, whose new factory role was head of team performance development.

This followed by rumours that Stepney was contemplating a move to Honda - entirely logical, considering he is a Briton who presumably always fancied moving back home (throughout his Ferrari years, Brawn always maintained a double life, with a house in the UK). With Brawn's name also linked to Honda, it seemed plausible that both men could end up there.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, came the bombshell news that Stepney was under criminal investigation in Italy, following action taken by Ferrari, and that he had 'disappeared' abroad.

All sorts of mixed messages came out in the days that followed. Key among them was talk of a white powder being found in or around the Ferrari F2007 fuel tank before the Monaco Grand Prix, and the suggestion therefore Stepney tried to sabotage the cars.

The police duly raided the Briton's house in Italy, and it was reported that they had taken away a canister, which we could only presume was related to the aforementioned white powder.

Things took a different turn on June 24, when the Sunday Times reported Stepney's view. Journalist Jane Nottage, who knows Stepney well and has written an officially sanctioned book about the inner workings of Ferrari, called him in the Philippines, where he was holidaying with his girlfriend and their child.

"I have confidence that I'll be cleared by the legal process that is now taking place," he told her. "It is just part of a dirty tricks campaign and everything is in the hands of my lawyer, so we'll wait and see what happens.

"I am on a planned holiday with Ash and our baby. Why would anyone say I am not contactable? I booked the flights through the Ferrari travel office. They know where I am."

In a further twist, a Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com at Magny-Cours last weekend that this last statement was not true, and indeed, Stepney was not even on an official leave.

Meanwhile, the rumours continued to fly around, and bits of information come out in dribs and drabs. I've been told that the police officers who visited Casa Nigel didn't just recover that canister, but other items of interest, reportedly including a couple of steering wheels that should not have been there.

Sources have also suggested that Stepney was allegedly seen behaving suspiciously around the cars in the factory at a time when he thought he was alone, and/or that there is incriminating CCTV footage.

In addition to the white powder business, there were also rumours of some form of industrial espionage.

It seemed obvious to assume that any such behaviour might involve a potential future employer such as Honda, but there was a whisper last weekend that McLaren were the recipient.

Sabotaging the cars, helping McLaren by passing on secrets... The story got weirder and weirder. What was Stepney supposedly up to?

The only conclusion a casual observer could make was that some internal strife at Maranello, possibly involving Stepney not being allowed contractually to make his move to Honda, had caused him to extract some sort of revenge.

House Search at Fort Coughlan

Mike CoughlanHowever, the story took another serious turn on Tuesday morning when Ferrari revealed that Stepney had been sacked.

And, that afternoon brought the stunning news that McLaren were indeed in the loop a statement from the Woking outfit revealing "senior member of [McLaren's] technical organisation was subject of a Ferrari investigation regarding the receipt of technical information."

McLaren's statement further revealed that this senior staff member " had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April."

McLaren concluded by saying the individual has been suspended by the company, pending a full investigation.

Inevitably there was considerable interest in just who might be involved at Woking, and logic suggested it was someone at McLaren who has worked with Stepney in the past. There was certainly more than one high profile name that fitted that bill.

After that came a statement from Ferrari, which confirmed they have instigated legal proceedings against Stepney and a McLaren employee, in both Italy and England.

It didn't take long for it to emerge that the McLaren man under investigation was chief designer Mike Coughlan.

He worked with Stepney at Benetton and, from 1993 to 1998, at Ferrari - although Coughlan was mostly at John Barnard's Surrey base rather than in Maranello.

On Tuesday, Coughlan's house was visited by the UK police, and apparently Ferrari documents were found there.

Clearly the saga has caused some disruption at Ferrari, but the fact that this affair has now spread to McLaren as well must be big relief to the Maranello team, as some of the negative attention has been diverted.

If, as must now be considered possible, Coughlan does not return to work once the investigation is complete, he will leave a hole in McLaren's staff that has to be filled.

McLaren may have strength in depth, but losing the chief designer in the middle of a title campaign - and just as serious work gets going on the 2008 car - is not exactly ideal.

Inevitably, too, some would also be very happy for the fans to draw the conclusion that McLaren's turnaround in form after Spain was in some way related to the information that was passed on, although clearly there is no evidence that this is the case.

Indeed, it remains unknown if the alleged information was actually used by Coughlan in an attempt to benefit McLaren, or if indeed it was of any value to a team running a completely different car.

The other possibility is that the information pertained to something that Ferrari were doing that was of potential interest to McLaren - advanced wing design and flexing bodywork, for example.

The Gathering Storm

Ferrari interestingly made a point of ending their statement on Tuesday by saying the team "reserve the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws." (emphasis added)

The last time Ferrari made a similar threat was in 2003, after the FIA found the tread width of Michelin tyres to be outside the legal width - following a protest by Ferrari. Back then, Ferrari also "reserved the right" to challenge race results after the season was over, should they deem it necessary.

Ferrari never pursued legal action in 2003 - the team, after all, won both titles that season - but Maranello's suggestion that some teams may not have won fairly was made very clear.

This time around, McLaren were unequivocal in their Tuesday statement that 'Stepneygate' involves one individual inthe team, and not McLaren.

"Whilst McLaren has no involvement in the matter and condemns such actions, we will fully cooperate with any investigation," the team said, and there is no reason to question this. Ron Dennis may have his critics, but his integrity has never been at doubt.

Either way, though, this really is a sorry saga that will overshadow the British team's widely anticipated homecoming Grand Prix at Silverstone this weekend.

It's also unclear how all this affects Ross Brawn and any plans he has to return to Maranello.

The former technical director is very close to Stepney, but on the other hand he is a Ferrari man to the core, and if there has been any wrongdoing, one presumes he will side with the team.

So now we wait to find out not only what Stepney has to say when he returns to Europe, but also what happens at McLaren.

It remains to be seen what the FIA, too, will do - if at all - in this affair, and what are the legal implications for Stepney, Coughlan, Ferrari and McLaren.

Recently, two former Ferrari employees were found guilty of stealing Ferrari secrets and taking them to Toyota - although the Japanese outfit was not directly implicated in the case.

And, considering that that affair took four years to reach its court resolution, it's safe to say that 'Stepneygate' has only just begun.

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Very well explained, really...

I don't think there's much probability that McLaren have greatly benefitted from the leaked Ferrari information, but either way, it's no good having this unpleasant issues in mid-season. And with the little information there is so far, we cannot even speculate about the trut behind it all, because we would most probably judge it wrong. And even though it's nice to think that maybe McLaren were stealing Ferrari secrets, and that's why they had the upper hand, it's just delusions. If Ferrari do better(than McLaren and in general) from now on we could say that, but saying it now just means you want to believe it, because it's the perfect excuse.

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Even if McLaren have not used any information at all, the simple fact that documents were in their possession makes them criminals. Its like Robin Hood who stole to help the poor and never used the money for himself but remember he was always hunted down by the sheriffs.

The theory that if McLaren are using Ferrari information then howcome they are better is useless. Even Super Aguri are using Honda's last season car and are better than them thus far. There might be a department in which Mclaren is better off than Ferrari and therefore are better overall.

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I am sure this is not the only time they have stolen information, just the only time they have got caught.

And what is it that makes you so sure?

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Even if McLaren have not used any information at all, the simple fact that documents were in their possession makes them criminals.

Like Toyota? Everyone seems to have forgotten them.

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As much as i dislike McLaren I don't see the benifits of info pillphrage, the cars are so dissimaler(forgive my atrocious spelling today)

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Like Toyota? Everyone seems to have forgotten them.

Had Toyota been dragged to the court it would have been the same for them. Since Ferrari are on the receiving end its up to them to lodge complaints. Its like two people are speeding and only one is stopped. Its totally up to the cop and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

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McClaren should be excluded from the competition forever.

That's what I hope for.

F1 is not the playing field for McClaren or others, let Ferrari rules the competition.

:clap3::clap3::clap3:

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And what is it that makes you so sure?

Just think about the laws of probability... how easy it is to steal and how hard it is to notice that kind of action. Especially when there seems to be very near contacts between some key personnels of the teams.

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It is a good point that McLaren cant exactly strap Ferrari winglets onto their car.. and that's what they just said in another press release:

"Woking, United Kingdom, 4th July 2007: Following our statement of 3rd July 2007, McLaren has completed a thorough investigation and can confirm that no Ferrari intellectual property has been passed to any other members of the team or incorporated into its cars.

McLaren has in the meanwhile openly disclosed these matters to the FIA and Ferrari and sought to satisfy any concerns that have arisen from this matter. In order to address some of the speculation McLaren has invited the FIA to conduct a full review of its cars to satisfy itself that the team has not benefited from any intellectual property of another competitor."

But then, knowledge is power in sooo many different ways. It is simplistic to assume that there isn't other benefits from stealing information.. I'd imagine the specific information which was found could have a lot to do with the ramifcations.

They're probably going to claim that a disgruntled Stepney gave them the documents in order to try to secure a job next year, with no McLaren hand in thefts or sabotage...

Wow Ron Dennis must be on the warpath.

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Since McLaren could not deny the fact that document were actualy discovered at the residence of one of their senior employees they said that the employee had them for his own use and they were not used for any developments in McLaren. How can they be so foolish? The employee was under contract with them and they should have made sure that nothing of this sort happens. The employee represents the team and any wrong doing even on individual basis makes the team responsible.

The second foolish statement from Mclaren asks the FIA to analyse their car to see that there is no resemblance with the Ferraris. I agree that there might be no resemblance at all but the information about the Ferraris that had been available to them is the only thing required to counter and come up with a better part for their own car. We should also not forget the fact that teams have significant developments pre planned and up their sleeves to launch as the season progresses. Since nobody except the team has information about them, they could well be used by another team in advance to the launch date.

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