F1 Update: Indianapolis Gives Up On Usgp

[YHR 0]

Fingers crossed that this doesn't end up double-tapping ...

Please don't make the mistake of believing that King George speaks for all (or even a majority) of US racing fans.

I have never been a fan of Tony George, but I think it is clear the main stream American racing fans does not like what F1 has to offer. Obviously those of us on this forum are an interested in F1, but the critical mass of fan in the US does not exist to make F1 viable in the US.

There is the IRL, CART, NASCAR, all putting on a show with multiple races with a home town flavour.

The US does not need the F1 circus. It is one of the few countries(maybe the only one) that has so much racing activity within its own borders that can satisfy its own racing hunger. For that I envy you. You can tell BE to take a hike and carry on without missing a beat.

It is my opinion that the racing in F1 needs revamping, and the I don't give a rats a## what the viewing statistics say, the show stinks. So for once in my life I agree with Tony George and his position on this. America doesn't need it.

[DOF_power 0]

America wants nothing to do with F1. Pretty much has always been that way. The rest is just spin doctoring. But IMHO America has just said no to F1. Like I mentioned last year. The mindset is fortress America.

Yes I agree about fortress America (Ron Dennis called it an island) but also you have to also agree with "go where the money is" menthality of Ecclestone.

The fact the USA doesn't want in, doesn't make F1 non international/global sport for the simple reason that there is a world outside the USA who is interested in F1 (second only to football and I don't mean that ridiculous american rugby).

If americans belive America = the world, than it's their mistake.

Americans didn't invented the car, nor the race car, nor the sportcar, nor races/motor-sport, nor doesn it have a monopoly/God-given-right on them.

We can simply live in a world of motor-sport without America. Pure and simple, because the world doesn't give a rat's @$$ about America.

[shampion 0]

Yes I agree about fortress America (Ron Dennis called it an island) but also you have to also agree with "go where the money is" menthality of Ecclestone.

The fact the USA doesn't want in, doesn't make F1 non international/global sport for the simple reason that there is a world outside the USA who is interested in F1 (second only to football and I don't mean that ridiculous american rugby).

If americans belive America = the world, than it's their mistake.

Americans didn't invented the car, nor the race car, nor the sportcar, nor races/motor-sport, nor doesn it have a monopoly/God-given-right on them.

We can simply live in a world of motor-sport without America. Pure and simple, because the world doesn't give a rat's @$$ about America.

Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Com'on!

Don't hold back , how do you really feel about Americans (<------- sarcasim)

[Jem of the Shire 0]

f1 was fine throughout the 90's without USA so who cares. Crap circuit anyway

[YHR 0]

Yes I agree about fortress America (Ron Dennis called it an island) but also you have to also agree with "go where the money is" menthality of Ecclestone.

The fact the USA doesn't want in, doesn't make F1 non international/global sport for the simple reason that there is a world outside the USA who is interested in F1 (second only to football and I don't mean that ridiculous american rugby).

If americans belive America = the world, than it's their mistake.

Americans didn't invented the car, nor the race car, nor the sportcar, nor races/motor-sport, nor doesn it have a monopoly/God-given-right on them.

We can simply live in a world of motor-sport without America. Pure and simple, because the world doesn't give a rat's @$$ about America.

1. Don't know where that came from. Seems like you have an axe to grind that goes beyond racing

Yah I kind of had you pegged in that camp. Let us be perfectly clear, it is F1 that is not interesting to Americans. So don't blame America if they are not interested in it. They have major races every weekend with sponsors coming out of the ying yang, and billions of dollars being spent on racing entertainment. F1 is failing in America because the other forms of racing available offer better entertainment to them. That is hardly America's fault.

I guess because they have so many options they don't need to follow the F1 circus. They are perfectly content watching what does interest them, and it is a shame to see such anger directed to them becuase they do. I simply don't understand that mindset.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

F1 is failing in America because the other forms of racing available offer better entertainment to them. That is hardly America's fault.

Or is it because americans generally arent interested in stuff thats not from america? Americans only really seem to be interested in their own sports such as NBA, NFL, Nascar etc, all of which the majority of the world find either boring or just odd.

In television, film & music would it be fair to say america doesnt take much notice of what goes on outside USA?

[YHR 0]

f1 was fine throughout the 90's without USA so who cares. Crap circuit anyway

F1 will carry on being F1, and America will be happy and thrilled doing it's own thing. No reason for any malice between the camps. Actually the racing scene in America during the 90's was excellent. Now that F1 is falling off the radar I look forward to the IRL and Champcar getting together. I think Honda, Toyota, and Ford would welcome the merger, and perhaps we could return to the heyday of the 90's that saw some great drivers and excellent competition.

There will be just little reason for us North American's to follow F1, when we have good competitive racing every weekend within our own borders. I am OK with that, but that is the very reason so many North American posters are no longer active on this forum. For that I am a little sad because this was a fun place to be when I had a passion to be involved.

I don't blame America for that though. I personally blame F1 for failing to get it's house in order, and offer an exciting brand of racing that would have captivated the North American Market. Instead we got runaway race winners, and then there was that tire fiasco that was allowed to happen. I find it hard to blame the America racing fan for any of that.

I guess the rest of the world is happy with the F1 show. Good , I am happy for them.

[YHR 0]

Or is it because americans generally arent interested in stuff thats not from america? Americans only really seem to be interested in their own sports such as NBA, NFL, Nascar etc, all of which the majority of the world find either boring or just odd.

In television, film & music would it be fair to say america doesnt take much notice of what goes on outside USA?

They embraced hockey, and basketball is a Canadian invention. I think it is fair to say the Americans are interested in getting a good show. Good music and arts performers, regardless of their nationalities are greatly appreciated. They have a high standard. Nothing wrong with that.

[monza gorilla 1]

Y'know this isn't quite a first but I agree with a lot of YHR's comments on this subject. The US doesn't need F1. At all. Compared to their home grown series F1 doesn't offer anything they can't already get, probably cheaper. I'd love to see F1 stay in the States but at a proper track such as Road America or Laguna Seca, or both. Thing is it would take a lot of money to get them up to the Ecclestone/FIA standard and that cash won't be forthcoming anytime soon. Shame. Bernie wants what's best for Bernie. End of.

[diamonddan 0]

Indy is bringing in the Moto GP. With a fee of 3 million, IMS actually has a chance to make some money on this.

Bernie only cares about his profits, he doesn't care whether anyone else makes money in F1 or not. It is too bad he is unwilling to work with promoters so both sides can make money on an F1 event. Bernie's up there in age, not sure what he will leave behind. F1 ends up with mostly third world countries on the schedule, with their governments paying the sanctioning fees, Bernie retires, governments fall apart, what happens??

BTW - I bet Indianapolis makes a ton of money off USGP gear, maybe on a par with NASCAR. with NASCAR, you can buy merchandise anywhere. With F1, the race maybe the only chance you have to buy F1 gear, other than the internet.

[Quiet One 15]

Indy is bringing in the Moto GP. With a fee of 3 million, IMS actually has a chance to make some money on this.

Bernie only cares about his profits, he doesn't care whether anyone else makes money in F1 or not. It is too bad he is unwilling to work with promoters so both sides can make money on an F1 event. Bernie's up there in age, not sure what he will leave behind. F1 ends up with mostly third world countries on the schedule, with their governments paying the sanctioning fees, Bernie retires, governments fall apart, what happens??

BTW - I bet Indianapolis makes a ton of money off USGP gear, maybe on a par with NASCAR. with NASCAR, you can buy merchandise anywhere. With F1, the race maybe the only chance you have to buy F1 gear, other than the internet.

Somebody said before: mostly Asian countries and the replied I posted tere is still valid: what's the problem with that? Feelings pro or against Indy aside, why look at the other countries in a derisive way? Let's see: Italy, France, UK, Turkey, China, Germany, Monaco, Australia, Thailand, Japan, Brazil...where are the third world countries? Maybe you are thinking about the incoming India or Singapur GPs? Again, none of them are third world countries but major powers (India is, and Singapur is too in terms of manufacturing)

Now, each country may have their doubts about the convenience or not of holding a GP there (see the thread about the Indian GP for details) but that does not mean that third world countries can't host a GP with at least as much success as the USA GP. In the beginning, there was Europe AND Latin America.

Yes, government falls ("changes" would be more appropiate...since the USA decided not to fund and arm military governments they have very much faded away here) and policy towards local GPs may change accordingly, but I don't see what is the advantage a private company has in this matter. Private companies change their policies, too. Their boards fall, too.

In short, I don't give a rat's arse what you think about the Indy GP. Love it, or hate it. I just don't feel comfortable with the sly attacks on other countries. The inability of USA to maintain a GP is not something new. Almost every race in the calendar was jeopardized or removed at least once, no matter what country was it being held in. We are now deprived of a French GP which has more historical reasons to be in the calendar than the US GP.

[DOF_power 0]

The inability of USA to maintain a GP is not something new. Almost every race in the calendar was jeopardized or removed at least once, no matter what country was it being held in. We are now deprived of a French GP which has more historical reasons to be in the calendar than the US GP.

True.

I would also love the N

[Autumnpuma 0]

The

[Eric 0]

True.

I would also love the N

[DOF_power 0]

Do some research. The average NASCAR fan is college-educated and makes upwards of 70,000 USD/year in income. They spend enough on NASCAR races and merchandise to make NASCAR's revenues in the multiple billions of dollars per year. America is the richest nation on the planet with the highest number of millionairres. You underestimate America's spending power, but you are anti-American in your views, as we have seen in this thread, so I suppose it's understandable that you view America in this way.

You make me laugh. Only 1/5 have such an income.

An average fan has an income between 40k to 45k, and there are plenty who have less.

I do NOT underestimate America's spending power and I don't hate America. What I hate dumb-America, that USA that belives it is the world (USA=world).

As for Indy I couldn't care less about it. It's quite a poor track. Before I'll miss Indy I'll miss the N

[pumpdoc 2]

You make me laugh. Only 1/5 have such an income.

An average fan has an income between 40k to 45k, and there are plenty who have less.

I do NOT underestimate America's spending power and I don't hate America. What I hate dumb-America, that USA that belives it is the world (USA=world).

As for Indy I couldn't care less about it. It's quite a poor track. Before I'll miss Indy I'll miss the N

[LabradoRacer 2]

F1's been replaced by MotoGp for 2008.

[DOF_power 0]

You make me laugh reading your bloviations, you know so little of which you speak on this subject.

Please correct me where I was wrong and what I don't know.

[LabradoRacer 2]

I think MotoGp will be a success in USA,given that there are plenty of American racers.

[StoneIsland 0]

You make me laugh. Only 1/5 have such an income.

An average fan has an income between 40k to 45k, and there are plenty who have less.

I do NOT underestimate America's spending power and I don't hate America. What I hate dumb-America, that USA that belives it is the world (USA=world).

Source?

Now, take the following from Green Flag Marketing with a grain of salt (they're trying to sell you something and it's five years old):

Why should your company advertise with NASCAR?

o

NASCAR is one of the most attended and watched professional sports in the world.

o

NASCAR is a premier sport in the U.S. and competes with all other professional leagues, including the NFL, NBA and MLB.

o

NASCAR is the most popular motorsports series in the country.

o

2nd highest rated regular season televised sport in the U.S.*

o

3rd in licensed sales among all major U.S. sports.**

o

75 Million fans coast to coast.***

o

Participation by more Fortune 500 companies than any other sport in the U.S.

o

6.7 million fans attended NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series events in 2002

o

17 of the 20 highest attended sporting events in 2002 in the U.S. were NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series events.

o

A NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series event attracts larger crowds than the Super Bowl, a World Series game and the NBA Finals game combined.

o

The 10 month racing season is one of the longest of all U.S. major sports.

o

75 Million adults, 1/3 of the U.S. adult population are NASCAR fans.

o

NASCAR fans have attractive demographics and have discretionary income.

*Regular season events **License! ***Ipos Reid, NASCAR Brand Review, 2001

Source: Nielsen Media Research

Gender

o 60% Male / 40% Female

Age

o 32% of NASCAR fans are between the ages of 18-34 (100 index vs. U.S. pop)

o 58% of NASCAR fans are between the ages of 18-44 (109 index vs. U.S. pop)

Income

o

42% of NASCAR fans earn $50,000+ per year (108 index vs. U.S. pop)

Children / Families

o 40% of NASCAR fans have children under the age of 18 (111 index vs. U.S. pop)

* NASCAR fans are three times as likely to try and purchase NASCAR sponsors’ products and services.

* NASCAR fans are 94% more likely to have positive feelings about NASCAR sponsors

Seasons: NFL (02-03) as of 12/1/02 NCS (2002), NBA (01-02), NBS (2002), MLB (2002), NHL (01-02), PGA (2002), IRL (2002), CART

A NASCAR team sponsorship has never been more valuable!

You might also find this solicitation to sponsor the NASCAR Dodge Weekly Series from Irwindale Speeday in 2004 interesting: ISdemo05.pdf.

But, I think what I said before stands: unless you have evidence, or a source, please STFU.

Oh, by the way, I saw an ad from AT&T on a telecast that was not motorsport related and wasn't on the Speed Channel that used the Williams car.

[StoneIsland 0]

From the Delaware NewsJournal (2004):

Income distribution: U.S. pop...........NASCAR fans

$30-50,000..........22%...........29%

$50-75,000..........18%...........22%

$75-100,000.........12%..........12%

$100,000+..........9%..........8%

INCOME DISTRIBUTION

NASCAR fans are middle class and just as affluent as the U.S. population

• 41% of NASCAR fans earn $50,000+ per year (100 index vs. U.S. population)
  
• 46% of NASCAR fans earn $30,000-$70,000 (107 index vs. U.S. population)
  
• 12% of NASCAR fans earn $70,000-$100,000 (100 index vs. U.S. population)
  

[AutoRacer5 0]

Yes but there comes a point where the charm goes and it just becomes bloody ridicolous on a circuit on that. I'd much rather see it on a circuit where there isn't a concrete walls inches away but where it is still fast. I reallly think they should improve the saftey features of 2 tracks right now, Montreal (Kubica's crash proved that) and America (huge crashes in the last year or so have proven that also)

I think i can say safety that people don't want to see huge crashes and drivers getting injured or worse.

I'm pretty suprised that we went back there again after the last 3 years huge crashes, and i know some of you will disagree with me greatly, but i am happy they are not going back there. It should strictly remain and Indycar and Nascar track, not an F1 danger ground.

That's my first rant here over with.

Indianapolis is the only F1 track with the SAFER barriers installed. Nice try for saying that Indianapolis isn't that safe.

[AutoRacer5 0]

Oh, One opinion that has been stated is that the USGP was never given a chance to truly succeed.

Look at the facts:

2000: biggest crowd ever.

2001: race held 2 weeks after 9/11, crowd cut in half.

2002: "the finish" between Ferrari

2005: We know what happened

Add to the fact that it was held in three different months in 8 years, its no wonder the USGP wasn't successful.

[DOF_power 0]

From the Delaware NewsJournal (2004):

INCOME DISTRIBUTION

Well thank you for proving my point.

You just mentioned some of my sources yourself.

NASCAR is one of the most attended and watched professional sports in the world.

Uhm that's relative. If you don't count America NASCAR doesn't have much of an audience.

[DOF_power 0]

Oh, One opinion that has been stated is that the USGP was never given a chance to truly succeed.

Look at the facts:

2000: biggest crowd ever.

2001: race held 2 weeks after 9/11, crowd cut in half.

2002: "the finish" between Ferrari

2005: We know what happened

Add to the fact that it was held in three different months in 8 years, its no wonder the USGP wasn't successful.

I agree but it's more than that.

America is an island, and even when there were american drivers (and even team) F1 wasn't much popular.

And that goes for other FIA series too. The FIA WRC, WTCC, MotoGP, none of them really popular in the USA.