The One And Only Mclaren Contraversy Thread

[LBCracer 0]

My friend and I have been having an argument over the quali penalties last weekend.

We know that Mclaren had told Hamilton to let Alonso by in the beginning of Q3 because Alonso had the additional fuel for an extra quali lap. And Hamilton ignored these requests.

My friend claims Mclaren telling Hamilton to let Alonso pass is illegal team orders and Hamilton can't obey them because its illegal. I disagree, saying its their quali strategy that was set earlier in the weekend.

My question is: Is telling Hamilton to wave Alonso by, illegal team orders?

Is it illegal or not?

[Autumnpuma 0]

No. Even though qualifying can most often than not determine the race result, it's not actually the race. Team orders apply only to the race. That being said, the whole team orders rule is rubbish.

[Piotr 0]

No. Even though qualifying can most often than not determine the race result, it's not actually the race. Team orders apply only to the race. That being said, the whole team orders rule is rubbish.

I agree on all points. If I shell out millions of (insert any currency) to put a driver in the car, and hoping to win as a team so WE can pick up Millions in sponsorship, I definitely want the right to set up any strategy I want, up to and including MY drivers' order. And any driver who does not like it may find a different team.

But, as it was stated somewhere else, I don't own or run an F1 team. Personally, I think this is discrimination and DEMAND that I'll get one right away.. oh, wait, the wrong rant...

[Eric 0]

I agree on all points. If I shell out millions of (insert any currency) to put a driver in the car, and hoping to win as a team so WE can pick up Millions in sponsorship, I definitely want the right to set up any strategy I want, up to and including MY drivers' order. And any driver who does not like it may find a different team.

But, as it was stated somewhere else, I don't own or run an F1 team. Personally, I think this is discrimination and DEMAND that I'll get one right away.. oh, wait, the wrong rant...

But if you are McLaren, and you have two very talented drivers in Fernando and Lewis, isn't it best to just let the best man win? I mean, both of them can bring in millions of sponsorship money.

[David Adams 0]

Isn't that what they tried to do?!

It just didn't turn out as they had planned

[FUschumi 0]

But if you are McLaren, and you have two very talented drivers in Fernando and Lewis, isn't it best to just let the best man win? I mean, both of them can bring in millions of sponsorship money.

agree

[Kay 0]

My friend and I have been having an argument over the quali penalties last weekend.

We know that Mclaren had told Hamilton to let Alonso by in the beginning of Q3 because Alonso had the additional fuel for an extra quali lap. And Hamilton ignored these requests.

My friend claims Mclaren telling Hamilton to let Alonso pass is illegal team orders and Hamilton can't obey them because its illegal. I disagree, saying its their quali strategy that was set earlier in the weekend.

My question is: Is telling Hamilton to wave Alonso by, illegal team orders?

Is it illegal or not?

Regardless of the rules (even though it's been said it isn't true) Hamilton allowed Alonso through earlier on in the season, so he had already obeyed them once and so your friends argument holds no water.

[Blackmadonna 0]

As far as i know, MCM changed that every race- one time, Alsonso had to let Hamilton pass- which he did every time- next time, the other way round. Their "equality" policy.

In Nuerburgring, Hamilton had this accident so his turn was skipped. In Hungary, it was Alonsos turn, but Hamilton didn't accept that, so he didn't let him pass.

That can't be called "illegal", IMHO, its part of the team strategy.

[Fed up 0]

At the second race of the season, run in pouring rain in Brazil, Reutemann ignored a pre-arranged deal by winning at (Alan) Jones's expense. Jones said nothing, shook hands with Reutemann and immediately walked off the podium. In the final race, Jones humiliated Reutemann with a brilliant victory on a day when Reutemann had tried in vain to beat Brabham's Nelson Piquet to the championship.

Given that Hamilton was supposed to let Alonso through during qualifying, the only thing that surprised me about Alonso's delaying tactics in the pits was that he didn't pretend to stall the car. Then they couldn't have done a bloody thing to him. If he had stalled it, by the time they had got the starter attached and got him going again, it would have equated to the same amount of time lost. These guys are just not thinking quickly enough.'

'I think Alonso, quite rightly, thought he was going to go to McLaren and be the senior partner in the firm. Being a double world champion, he probably thought he should get a bit more attention than he feels he is getting. This young kid has come in and to all intents and purposes, blown him away - and Alonso doesn't like it. Fair enough. Neither would I.

The first guy you've got to beat in F1 is your team-mate. I'd be applying all sorts of tricks, psychological or otherwise. By doing what he did in the pit lane, Alonso might have taught Hamilton a bit of a lesson. Hamilton needs to remember that he is leading the championship and he might require Alonso's help later on. If I were Alonso, I'd go to Hamilton and say, "Right mate, all bets are off. Every man for himself. If you don't want to play the game, this is what we can do." Then I'd say: "Mate, you're leading the championship. If you'd like me to bugger that up for you a bit more, you keep going..."

Alan Jones

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story...rticle_continue

[Quiet One 15]

At the second race of the season, run in pouring rain in Brazil, Reutemann ignored a pre-arranged deal by winning at (Alan) Jones's expense. Jones said nothing, shook hands with Reutemann and immediately walked off the podium. In the final race, Jones humiliated Reutemann with a brilliant victory on a day when Reutemann had tried in vain to beat Brabham's Nelson Piquet to the championship.

Alan Jones

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story...rticle_continue

Yes, Reutemann was a bad bad boy who didn't fulfill a gentleman's agreement. Alonso is a bad bad boy that tries to make a gentleman's agreement when this sport is all about cheating to be the best. Do you see a pattern here? There isn't.

The pre-arranged agreement is Reutemann's case was never there, as he never accepted the order to become driver number 2. An order is not an agreement, mind you, and he oopenly said he wasn't accepting it. Very different from "I am a good boy I do what everybody tells me and love you all" Hamilton's approach.

"Jones said nothing, shook hands with Reutemann and immediately walked off the podium", who told you that? Alan Jones? Or do you mean that he didn't say anything while at the podium? If the latter, then that's exactly what Alonso did at Hungary, he didn't say anythingh at the podium. But later Alan Jones was outraged telling everybody that wanted to hear that he was the number one and that he should win and blah blah blah.

Last race in Vegas AJ "humiliated" CR because CR had lost fourth gear in the 2nd lap, yet he finished the race...something you won't see today when a driver leaves because "the brake pedal was touchig the car's floor". Also, because CR was never trully a WDC material, more due to his temperament than to lack of skills.

[YHR 0]

At the second race of the season, run in pouring rain in Brazil, Reutemann ignored a pre-arranged deal by winning at (Alan) Jones's expense. Jones said nothing, shook hands with Reutemann and immediately walked off the podium. In the final race, Jones humiliated Reutemann with a brilliant victory on a day when Reutemann had tried in vain to beat Brabham's Nelson Piquet to the championship.

Alan Jones

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story...rticle_continue

The Alan Jones article in its entirety is a good one. Another guy who finds it hard to believe the Stewards got involved.

I found this article with actual quotes from Ron Dennis very good as well.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=32356

Pretty clear unless you want to call Ron Dennis a liar out to discredit the very man he has groomed all these years, and that just doesn't make any sense. I like this article because there is no preconceived bais report of what Ron Dennis said or meant, just the actual quotes.

[Fed up 0]

The Alan Jones article in its entirety is a good one. Another guy who finds it hard to believe the Stewards got involved.

I found this article with actual quotes from Ron Dennis very good as well.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=32356

Pretty clear unless you want to call Ron Dennis a liar out to discredit the very man he has groomed all these years, and that just doesn't make any sense. I like this article because there is no preconceived bais report of what Ron Dennis said or meant, just the actual quotes.

The stewards called Ron a liar.

[YHR 0]

The stewards called Ron a liar.

Really???? They said that, I haven't seen that quoted anywhere. I have heard the term used on this forum by some, but never have I seen a direct quote from the stewards saying Ron Dennis is a liar?????????. Failing to provide enough information to win your case does not make you a liar, it only makes you unprepared. There is a big difference.

I personally tend to read articles and strip away what the author wants you to believe and only count on things actually said. A lot of journalist hacks will spit out inferred comments about what is being said attempting to sway the reader to some conclusion other then the truth. F1 Journalist are infamous for this, but at the same time very good at it.

The trouble I am having with this, is why would Ron Dennis say untrue things about his prodigy that he has invested years in????? It just doesn't add up does it really????? I can't imagine why Ron Dennis would lie to protect Alonso and hurt his own boy???

I think the very observant Alan James jumped to the conclusion of the events and then broadcast to millions of Hamilton fans, who then just passionately reacted to the story that saw their guy getting the shaft. The actual truth is much different.

Currently Hamilton's defense is left with Ron Dennis, The team manger that really knows what went on,who has groomed Hamilton since go carts, is lying to the press to deflect criticsm away from Alonso and on to the prodigal son. I am afraid that once I have broken down all this information, this defense is a hard one to accept. On the other hand, I don't think Alonso acted on his own, and in this regard is a team player and can hold his head high around the McLaren garage.

The interesting thing that will play out now is with the other drivers on the circuit. How do they feel about what Hamilton did with respect to team orders and fairness in the qualifying scheme that Mclaren worked out for the drivers. Will they hold him up just that litte bit extra, and make way for Alonso???? Interesting how this will all shake out. One thing is for sure. The drivers will all have their own opinions on who is honorable and who is not. I suspect we will may see some of this actually play out on the track. This combined with the podium performances, ie Placing hand on the small of the other drivers back and making way for them is going to be funny to watch on how they treat Hamilton out on the track.

But what do I know

[Argento Reloaded 1]

me too....

For the first time I would like Ferrari AND McLaren lost the constructor champ!

[Argento Reloaded 1]

At the second race of the season, run in pouring rain in Brazil, Reutemann ignored a pre-arranged deal by winning at (Alan) Jones's expense. Jones said nothing, shook hands with Reutemann and immediately walked off the podium. In the final race, Jones humiliated Reutemann with a brilliant victory on a day when Reutemann had tried in vain to beat Brabham's Nelson Piquet to the championship.

Alan Jones

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story...rticle_continue

Pure crap!!

There were not gentlemen agreement; only a contract specifying the following: if CR was less than 7 seconds ahead of AJ he MUST let Jones pass. The only problem in Brazil was the team never showed CR the difference between him and AJ in order to didn

[Juiceman05 0]

Why can't they all just get along =/

anyone see JPM get into it with that other driver this past weekend hahaha. haven't seen it yet but i heard its something worth tubing (can't tube @ work =/)

[Rainmaster 7]

what controvery, i havn't heard anything about this in the media, who's this hamilton guy?