"making One's Car Wide..."

[Eric 0]

Because it is much more complex, then other racing categories. Much more compex than any other sporting competition.

To win you have to excel in so many fields of activity on so many levels...

Think 'Triathlon' as another example of very complex sport, except, of course, the fact it is not a team sport. To win there you have to not only be good at running , driving and swimming, but also at changing clothes an shoes between races.

There are a lot of people watching baseball, I don't understand why either. so?

There are plenty of racing categories where "it's just racing"

it would make F1 better racing in expense of loosing everything that makes it special

I think I'm watching the wrong sport. Thank god NFL season is starting.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I think I'm watching the wrong sport. Thank god NFL season is starting.

I think this may be the problem with F1 these days. The teams and FIA (and indeed most fans) seem to want a sterilized 'sport' much like football and cricket. The problem is semantic in nature. Football, NFL, cricket, etc are games. Auto racing is a sport...or rather, should be a sport. I suppose you can call it what you like, but auto racing should never be compared to any other form on recreation. It's mighty men driving cars really fast. It's danger and blood and flames and glory. It's courage and it's combat. It's petrol and rubber and arrogance and temper. It isn't rules and it isn't teamwork and it certainly isn't football, no matter how much the FIA want to make it such.

[Yoda McFly 1]

I think this may be the problem with F1 these days. The teams and FIA (and indeed most fans) seem to want a sterilized 'sport' much like football and cricket. The problem is semantic in nature. Football, NFL, cricket, etc are games. Auto racing is a sport...or rather, should be a sport. I suppose you can call it what you like, but auto racing should never be compared to any other form on recreation. It's mighty men driving cars really fast. It's danger and blood and flames and glory. It's courage and it's combat. It's petrol and rubber and arrogance and temper. It isn't rules and it isn't teamwork and it certainly isn't football, no matter how much the FIA want to make it such.

It's not even a sport, any longer. It's a business, plain and simple.

[Eric 0]

I think this may be the problem with F1 these days. The teams and FIA (and indeed most fans) seem to want a sterilized 'sport' much like football and cricket. The problem is semantic in nature. Football, NFL, cricket, etc are games. Auto racing is a sport...or rather, should be a sport. I suppose you can call it what you like, but auto racing should never be compared to any other form on recreation. It's mighty men driving cars really fast. It's danger and blood and flames and glory. It's courage and it's combat. It's petrol and rubber and arrogance and temper. It isn't rules and it isn't teamwork and it certainly isn't football, no matter how much the FIA want to make it such.

I don't know. I agree to a point, but I really have to ask myself a question. What would be more entertaining? A sport that requires much thought and is really entertaining because of the drama surrounding the events and not the events themselves, or a series with a lot of good racing but no technical side? I'd honestly go with the latter. Maybe that's why it just works to watch both F1 and Champ Car and get the best of both worlds.

[Eric 0]

It's not even a sport, any longer. It's a business, plain and simple.

Agreed.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I don't know. I agree to a point, but I really have to ask myself a question. What would be more entertaining? A sport that requires much thought and is really entertaining because of the drama surrounding the events and not the events themselves, or a series with a lot of good racing but no technical side? I'd honestly go with the latter. Maybe that's why it just works to watch both F1 and Champ Car and get the best of both worlds.

Good point. My comment wasn't really in response to you, Eric, it just was triggered by your post.

[DOF_power 0]

I think this may be the problem with F1 these days. The teams and FIA (and indeed most fans) seem to want a sterilized 'sport' much like football and cricket. The problem is semantic in nature. Football, NFL, cricket, etc are games. Auto racing is a sport...or rather, should be a sport. I suppose you can call it what you like, but auto racing should never be compared to any other form on recreation. It's mighty men driving cars really fast. It's danger and blood and flames and glory. It's courage and it's combat. It's petrol and rubber and arrogance and temper. It isn't rules and it isn't teamwork and it certainly isn't football, no matter how much the FIA want to make it such.

They are sport games and buisness and glamour in the same time.

Grand Prix/F1 racing was and is a multidimesional challenge; and for every Nuvolari, Rosemeyer, Clark, Prost and Senna there was a Vittorio Jano, Ferdinand Porche, Colin Chapman and Gordon Murray.

GP/Formula 1 has always been a team sport (more so than every other form of motorsport).

The Sunday race is the glossy front end that everyone sees (as in "mighty men driving cars really fast; danger and blood and flames and glory"). But it is just one dimension/level/layer and some people, blinded by this facade, have the problem in beliving or accepting that this is NOT the only one. Not by a long shot.

The real work is always done by the teams. Hundreds and thousands of people work long hours and use real intelligence and ingenuity to make the race effort possible. If everyone works for themselves the team can never equal or exceed the sum of its parts. And drivers are part of the team. And several of the real greats multiple WDCs have been very hard working men. This list includes Brabham, Sutees, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher and now Alonso.

[Autumnpuma 0]

You almost sounded good until the line 'the real work is always done by the teams'.

[Silas Talbot 0]

How, precisely, is "you're allowed one move in reaction to the guy behind you" any less arbitrary than "you're not allowed any moves in reaction to the guy behind you"?

Yoda, I'm concerned that the rule will be inconsistently applied. What constitutes a blocking move? If a person behind you is on the outside line, and you run to the outside of the track, are you blocking him, or was that just a natural part of your turn?

I feel like there would be a lot of spite and resentment if good races, and good championships, constantly have the FIA coming in saying 'five grid-spot penalty for you,' 'no points this race for you'...

Who decides? is it a committee by vote? Can you appeal? What if you feel you were blocked by a slower car, but the FIA doesn't penalize that driver? Should all blocks be penalized equally, or is it a matter of degree?

There would be a lot of bitterness and resentment built up becase eventually everyone is going to feel like their team is getting shafted.

I agree with your overall point that the sport would be better-off with increased overtaking, I like your other suggestions, but not this rule about rolling over and letting someone pass you for position as if you were being blue-flagged.

[Silas Talbot 0]

As for the other thread of conversation going on here...

The only thing F1 needs is for the midget to finally shuffle off this mortal coil.... after that, everything else will just take care of itself.

Go watch another series if you want stock-car open-wheel racing, Eric. There are pleanty out there, with fine talent.

This is, as another poster said somewhere on page one, a 'total war.' in the press, in the garage, and yes, even down at the local FedEx-Kinkos where you copy your illegal documents... every edge possible, so long as it conforms to the FORMULA... is fair game.

[DOF_power 0]

You almost sounded good until the line 'the real work is always done by the teams'.

But the extra/decisive stuff comes from the driver/package. And as I said the driver/package is part of the team.

[DOF_power 0]

As for the other thread of conversation going on here...

The only thing F1 needs is for the midget to finally shuffle off this mortal coil.... after that, everything else will just take care of itself.

Go watch another series if you want stock-car open-wheel racing, Eric. There are pleanty out there, with fine talent.

This is, as another poster said somewhere on page one, a 'total war.' in the press, in the garage, and yes, even down at the local FedEx-Kinkos where you copy your illegal documents... every edge possible, so long as it conforms to the FORMULA... is fair game.

No matter how much clean-ness you'll try to put, banding & breaking regulations, team orders and industrial espionage have ALWAYS been a part of GP/F1 racing.

There was a good article about it in ReD Bulletin, describing cases of such (Stepney Gate) as long as 90-100 years ago.

So nothing new really.

[Silas Talbot 0]

No matter how much clean-ness you'll try to put, banding & breaking regulations, team orders and industrial espionage have ALWAYS been a part of GP/F1 racing.

There was a good article about it in ReD Bulletin, describing cases of such (Stepney Gate) as long as 90-100 years ago.

So nothing new really.

I'm not sure what you are saying here DOF...

My post is saying that cheating is a part of F1, they find every edge possible, it is total war on all levels...

Are you arguing just for the sake of it? I have noticed you do that from time to time..

[DOF_power 0]

>

^ Sorry I misunderstood then.