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turbolc2

Noob Senna Question......

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This may have been asked before but, I'm new to F1 and I wish it hadn't taken so long. I've been reading on past drivers and have been trying to understand the big deal about Aryton Senna. It seems as if there were other drivers before and after him that were better. He also seemed to complain a lot when the outcome didn't go his way *Alonso*.

Sorry if I step on any Senna fans toes because I know there are many. If someone could point me to some good reading on the man or give me a brief synopsis here would be cool. Thanks.... :clap3:

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If it is reading you seek, look no further than "The Life of Senna" by Tom Rubython. It's long, but it's good.

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He was a Legend. Legends are not necessarily the best of all times (seek Muzza's post on the subject in this forum about how hard is to determine who is actually "the best of all times")

However, a legend is built not only upon his skills, but also on some other traits (namely: charisma, success, media-hype, and, of course, a premature death)

I am a Senna fan, so I won't try to post too much because I will be too biased to be a trustworthy source for you to make your own opinion.

Will, however, just recommend you to watch Donnington '93. It is worth it, believe me.

Oh, and about the "Alonso whining about everything" bit. All drivers do that. Is up to you to choose who will you point your finger at and call a whiner and who will you chose as the quiet, "I'll show my skills on track" guy. You will more likely be wrong, though, because chances are that whoever you pick, that guy will whine a lot, too.

Prost (Senna's, nemesis at the moment) was supposed to be that guy at that moment. Truth is, he was a whiner just like Senna. But fans tend to ignore their own guy's whining and focus on the other guy. Try not to do that, accept your own favorite driver's flaws, like him because you think he is the best, despite the flaws, not because he has none. You will enjoy your F1 experience so much more. Trust me ;)

And welcome to the forums, btw :D

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Oh, and about the "Alonso whining about everything" bit. All drivers do that. Is up to you to choose who will you point your finger at and call a whiner and who will you chose as the quiet

Trust me, I know racers complain. Right now my favorites are Hamilton and Massa. In my opinion they are the example you gave of "shut up and let the driving speak."

I was not at all picking on Senna. I am just very interested in the history of the sport right now. I will definately get the book mentioned above.

I also have the book on the 2002 Ferrari F1 car. Excellent book. I'm finding myself being drawn to the "Turbo Era" cars. Is there an equal book explaining the build and performance of the turbo cars???

How about an affordable book on Fangio?? I looked on Amazon and there were books for $200USD. That's silly

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Here's a smattering of past posts from this forum (search for 'senna vs prost' and you'll find the thread) that talk about Senna:

The point of my post was not to highlight Senna as my favourite but to explain why some could see Gilles as their no 1 and in explaining that stating Gilles isn't the best in my opinion.

As for Senna v Prost, whilst I have the utmost respect for Prost, I always thought Senna had that extra something to give always. Whilst Prost was rightly known as the professor for his calculating ways, Senna could just do things noone else could without thinking about it. Take qualifying at Monaco in '88 or '89 when he just went faster and faster and faster and was over a second faster than Prost.

Then there were drivers such as Suzuka '88, Donington '93 to name but two. The way he hauled the '93 McLaren to 5 wins and a shot at the title and the '94 Williams to 2 poles when neither car was befitting of such achievements is something I don't believe Prost could have done.

Take also Senna's brilliant qualifying abilities, hisbrilliance in the wet compared to Prost who for some reason couldn't get his head around the conditions in account and he comes out ahead of Prost.

Finally, there was Ayrton's attitude to the sport which totally revolutionised it. He was the first to focus heavily on fitness and fitness regimes, he was always the last to exit debriefs as he was so gifted in terms of the technical aspects of the car.

I have other reasons which I have mentioned when this debate occured on this forum a while back and I cannot be bothered searching for them, but that's just a tidbit to explain my view.

Don't get me wrong, I feel both are great, but Senna was greater.

The thing people don't always come across about senna is that he had this skill to pull the absolute out of his machinery and extract every last ounce of speed out of it, and he had the ability to achieve very good results in technically inferior machinery. This is what i feel set him apart from any other F1 driver.
Thanks!

(speaking about onboards) You'd ride with Ayrton, and it was a wild, balls-to-the-wall, trip around the track. He'd roar into the turn, car squirming under the heavy braking, banging down through the gears, lots of steering input. Then, coming out of the turn the tires would be on fire, with lots of little corrections with the wheel to keep the rear end in line. Every lap seemed like it had to be a new lap record. It was very exciting and inspiring to watch.

But for me there is a place beyond statistics where the sheer awe of a driver's skill almost brings tears to your eyes. Magical drives that burn themselves into the brain and leave you thinking you'd seen the impossible.

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Trust me, I know racers complain. Right now my favorites are Hamilton and Massa. In my opinion they are the example you gave of "shut up and let the driving speak."

I was not at all picking on Senna. I am just very interested in the history of the sport right now. I will definately get the book mentioned above.

I also have the book on the 2002 Ferrari F1 car. Excellent book. I'm finding myself being drawn to the "Turbo Era" cars. Is there an equal book explaining the build and performance of the turbo cars???

How about an affordable book on Fangio?? I looked on Amazon and there were books for $200USD. That's silly

Please tell me that pic is a sick joke, a ricer wing on a V-6 Mustang. What's next a 'fart' can?

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Please tell me that pic is a sick joke, a ricer wing on a V-6 Mustang. What's next a 'fart' can?

Sorry, I'm new here so y'all will have to get used to my eccentric sense of humor. I was in traffic and just so happened to have my camera with me when this car pulled in front of me. I thought it was funny.... :clap3:

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Please don't let my quoted post from Puma's post above mislead you into thinking I'm a huge Senna fan. The quote was part of a larger post. ;)

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Trust me, I know racers complain. Right now my favorites are Hamilton and Massa. In my opinion they are the example you gave of "shut up and let the driving speak."

I think neither Massa nor Hamilton can be considered in the group of shut up and let the driving speak guys. Among the best drivers I think the only one you could consider in that group would be Raikkonen.

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This may have been asked before but, I'm new to F1 and I wish it hadn't taken so long. I've been reading on past drivers and have been trying to understand the big deal about Aryton Senna. It seems as if there were other drivers before and after him that were better. He also seemed to complain a lot when the outcome didn't go his way *Alonso*.

Sorry if I step on any Senna fans toes because I know there are many. If someone could point me to some good reading on the man or give me a brief synopsis here would be cool. Thanks.... :clap3:

He plain and simply was the BEST...

Do yourself a favour and watch some videos on him, you will undoubtedly be impressed.

He won grand prix's in cars that shouldn't have been in the top 6! His victories at Donington Park & Adelade in 1993 are two of the best performances of all time!

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Regarding Donington and Senna, have a look at this article on Pitpass, called Exploding the Myth:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_fea...es_art_id=32415

It gives an interesting take on what is a great drive, and what is the myth of a great drive.

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Regarding Donington and Senna, have a look at this article on Pitpass, called Exploding the Myth:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_fea...es_art_id=32415

It gives an interesting take on what is a great drive, and what is the myth of a great drive.

Ok, Point taken... Actually though after having watched the 1985 season review recently, I too would agree Senna's debut victory in Estoril was even more impressive.

But the 1993 season as a whole showed the genius that was Ayrton Senna.

He was in a Mclaren, which was at the time the 3rd best team behind the untouchable Williams of Prost & Hill & the Benetton team led by Shumacher. Unlike the Benetton team though with their "works" engines the Mclaren were using the year old underpowered V8 engines.

Senna's team mates Hakkinen & Michael Andretti were no where on pace all season, ending the season with 1 podium between them whereas Senna managed to challenge Prost for the title until the 4th or 3rd last race of the season. He had some absolutely superb drives along the way!

I attended the South African GP that season (which to this day had the 2nd least amount of cars to ever finish a race at 5/26). Senna finished 2nd on that occasion in the wet on dry tires and was unbelievable in my opinion!

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Regarding Donington and Senna, have a look at this article on Pitpass, called Exploding the Myth:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_fea...es_art_id=32415

It gives an interesting take on what is a great drive, and what is the myth of a great drive.

THAT'S what I'm talking about. Thank you sir for a good read..... :clap3:

I bought the book recommended about Senna. Waiting on Amazon now.....

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I think neither Massa nor Hamilton can be considered in the group of shut up and let the driving speak guys. Among the best drivers I think the only one you could consider in that group would be Raikkonen.

I have to agree there :thbup:

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I think neither Massa nor Hamilton can be considered in the group of shut up and let the driving speak guys. Among the best drivers I think the only one you could consider in that group would be Raikkonen.

Extremely true.

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Theres plenty of great drivers than lots of people will debate for and against as the Greatest. Senna wasn't just great however, he was a Genius. Theres very few of them.

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This sums up the greatest driver ever! it used to be my sig on here...

He streaked through the sport like a comet, an other-worldly superstar whose brilliance as a driver was matched by a dazzling intellect and coruscating charisma that illuminated Formula One racing as never before. No one tried harder or pushed himself further, nor did anyone shed so much light on the extremes to which only the greatest drivers go. Intensely introspective and passionate in the extreme, Ayrton Senna endlessly sought to extend his limits, to go faster than himself, a quest that ultimately made him a martyr but did not diminish his mystique.

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Regarding Donington and Senna, have a look at this article on Pitpass, called Exploding the Myth:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_fea...es_art_id=32415

It gives an interesting take on what is a great drive, and what is the myth of a great drive.

What utter rubbish! I can't believe you posted such tripe! Civil war indeed!!

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Oops. Forgot that bit. May I say that the views of the author of the article may not necessarily represent the views of this correspondent. He was stretching it a bit, I must admit.

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Some drivers have something that is exceptionally difficult to explain, you need to watch and look at the detail - not just lap times, but HOW he drove.

Sorry to get all gooey, but Wez's post is spot on - a very rare number of drivers have had the ability of detaching themselves from what most perceive is normal/acceptable/do-able. Maybe it's unique combinations of passion, inate skill, determination, pride, controlled agression, fire in the belly type thing - I can't find the words. I really believe that when driving, they are in a whole different world.

Their hunger is greater maybe? When you saw him (and those of similar ilk), he had a hungry look, like the kind you get from not eating for a while. Anyway. See what I mean?

Maybe they aren't the fastest/best of their era (these 'special' ones), maybe we could say Prost was as good but in a different way? - It's just the way, the manner, the singlemindedness those like Senna have had, have captured peoples imagination.

Reminded me of Jim Clark, so he did.

We will always have opinions and compare - there were times when Mansell, Prost and others ran him bloody close, but for me it comes down to the relentless manner he had, the fact that being beaten was incomprendable, the measures he'd take and the risk to himself (and sometimes others, winning no friends!).

One thing's for sure, love them or hate them, like the Gilles's, Senna's, Clarks', the true motorpsort fans knew they were watching something really, really special.

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It's not Noob Senna, it's Ayrton Senna. <_<

:P Sorry, couldn't resist

:lol:

Here's another noobish question...how is "Ayrton" pronounced? I've heard "Air-ton," "Aye-air-ton," and "Aye-er-ton."

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