la force supreme des mclaren

Mclaren Fined $100million.........

494 posts in this topic

Spot on, my simian friend.

Having a gun on a plane doesn't mean your intent is to hijack that plane. That person could be a security guard that likes to carry his gun or perhaps a very nervous woman afraid of rape. Nevertheless, I do see your point, AJ.

And what happens when Williams hires a chief aero guy from Renault. Isn't he bringing Renault's research with him? You can't stop that level of imitation. I will have to say that

I personally feel even security guards should be allowed guns on a plane or the nervous women.... if your a cop you still have some sort of immunity but for the nervous women she would on a express flight to eastern europe....

Only a certain percent of the research is being brought in, but if you pick up the whole development team from Reno then yes the research is going, and since ussually ppl quit at the end of their year so last years research goes none current....

Not so. I've seen how persons of one nation will stick together rather tightly. I believe Pedro and Alonso sharing the same nationality gave them a closer friendship than Alonso had with Hamilton. Add to that Pedro's bitterness at not getting Hamilton's seat and I come away with the picture that none of this was shared with Hamilton.

I agreee, people with same nationality will be a bit partial to one another, but see i don't think this was just limited to the 4 emplyees(No i don't have any proof on this) but i feel more people were involved and some of them would be british and supporters of Hamilton, so he would have got the infomation, and did a very good job of not disclosing it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it seems to me people are getting a little overdefensive about Alonso, I'm certainly not trying to make out he is the root of this...

I believe many are to blame all to different degrees, worst of all Coughlan and Stepney.

I am glad you see my point!

I don't see many people getting overdefensive about Alonso (except the usual) and I do see many people getting overdefensive about Dennis and McLaren.

This sounds like the typical situation where both can see part of the truth, and fail when we want to extrapolate the part we see to the part we don't. Pointing why I see that Alonso is not the villain (at least, not the worst or the only one) in this saga makes people believe I get overdefensive on him.

Perhaps some of you are trying to do the same about Dennis and I perceive it as getting overdefensive about him.

At least I can see your point. I only wish I could make my point as clear...but I am at disadvantage here, it is really hard for me sometimes to express myself in English, sorry.

The part in bold is so obvious I am amazed only you and a couple more can agree to that!

Edit: McRae died??? Now that is more terrible than any of this stupid saga! :( I used to love to see him race on that Impreza (IIRC)...with Carlos Sainz...ahh, those were the times...

Edited by Quiet One

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am glad you see my point!

I don't see many people getting overdefensive about Alonso (except the usual) and I do see many people getting overdefensive about Dennis and McLaren.

This sounds like the typical situation where both can see part of the truth, and fail when we want to extrapolate the part we see to the part we don't. Pointing why I see that Alonso is not the villain (at least, not the worst or the only one) in this saga makes people believe I get overdefensive on him.

Perhaps some of you are trying to do the same about Dennis and I perceive it as getting overdefensive about him.

At least I can see your point. I only wish I could make my point as clear...but I am at disadvantage here, it is really hard for me sometimes to express myself in English, sorry.

The part in bold is so obvious I am amazed only you and a couple more can agree to that!

To be honest, Andres, it not your problem with english, it's just because previously you were a Alonso fan and a reno fan, and then your defending Alonso....

It's kinda like if i try to say the decision is fair, no one will listen since i support Ferrari....

btw, i do agree with Alonso not being the only "bad guy" as i have said in my post; i beleive more than just 4 people in Mclaren; (But i have no proof of this)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am glad you see my point!

I don't see many people getting overdefensive about Alonso (except the usual) and I do see many people getting overdefensive about Dennis and McLaren.

This sounds like the typical situation where both can see part of the truth, and fail when we want to extrapolate the part we see to the part we don't. Pointing why I see that Alonso is not the villain (at least, not the worst or the only one) in this saga makes people believe I get overdefensive on him.

Perhaps some of you are trying to do the same about Dennis and I perceive it as getting overdefensive about him.

I think you are right here...

At least I can see your point. I only wish I could make my point as clear...but I am at disadvantage here, it is really hard for me sometimes to express myself in English, sorry.

Your english is exceptional, better than most people in this country.

The part in bold is so obvious I am amazed only you and a couple more can agree to that!

I suppose everybody has their own motives, some will attempt to solely vilify/blame Alonso or Ferrari or the FIA, and others will try to victimise Mclaren/Dennis - and of course neither is correct, doing so oversimplifies a story that is anything but. Then there are those like you and me (i think) who understand it for what it is, a total mess!

Edit: McRae died??? Now that is more terrible than any of this stupid saga! :( I used to love to see him race on that Impreza (IIRC)...with Carlos Sainz...ahh, those were the times...

It is indeed terrible :(

Edited by rainmaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you are right here...

Your english is exceptional, better than most people in this country.

I suppose everybody has their own motives, some will attempt to solely vilify/blame Alonso or Ferrari or the FIA, and others will try to victimise Mclaren/Dennis - and of course neither is correct, doing so oversimplifies a story that is anything but. Then there are those like you and me (i think) who understand it for what it is, a total mess!

It is indeed terrible :(

Well thank you for your kindness regarding my English skills, but it is still not easy to post in another language, skills or not :lol:

And yes, it is a total mess. FIA would be wise to take note of this and start working on how to improve transparency in F1 (which was never one of this sport's strong points, anyways)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a bit casual way of putting it, what is your source, because Autosport are saying his helicopter was in a fatal crash - but havn't got details yet...

You are right but I had to go, I was listening to the radio and they said that piece of news. Then I saw they repeated same thing on TV and they mentioned The Times as their source.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/mor...icle2461339.ece

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sh!t. I really hope this isn't true. I really hope this isn't true. Especially after Richard Burns. Makes this whole McLaren/ferrari business fade into insignificance. Perspective, guys, perspective. If confirmed, someone please start a thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fcuk. This has really rattled me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are right but I had to go, I was listening to the radio and they said that piece of news. Then I saw they repeated same thing on TV and they mentioned The Times as their source.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/mor...icle2461339.ece

No worries.

Sh!t. I really hope this isn't true. I really hope this isn't true. Especially after Richard Burns. Makes this whole McLaren/ferrari business fade into insignificance. Perspective, guys, perspective. If confirmed, someone please start a thread.

Perspective it certainly does bring, only The Times are confirming at the moment, but it does look more and more likely it's true...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noone is trying to excuse Alonso but the point is that it seems FA is the only one to blame here, more when there's so many questions pending to be answered...

I read Fernando's interview (it is only in Spanish). He was asked details about what he actually told RD in Hungary. He refused to answer specifically but did say that RD's "truth" about the matter was different than his and different than that of the FIA.

With all the lying (as exposed) by RD, who is to say he is telling the truth about being blackmailed by Alonso?

Alonso seems a good kid. He is fluent (perfect actually) in Italian and in interviews on TV he is quite a charmer in Italian.

Alonso is a great driver, in terms of talent he is probably with Raikkonen, the most talented.

I doubt very much he knew the details of the 780 pages but knew that PDLR had access to helpful data from someone at McLaren who had a mole inside Ferrari. This is a 25 or so year old guy with no more than a secondary school degree and no business experience. I doubt very much he thought of intellectual property rights, industrial espionage, etc. at the time. I used to race 2-stroke roadrace motorbikes, if someone could tell my mechanic what size mainjets the top rider was using, I would have happily used the info. (Most of the motorbikes racing were Yamaha TD-3s or TR-3s in the the two classes I raced, so the benefit was more direct as the motors were quite similar if not exactly the same, but the concept is the same.)

I suspect that after the scandal broke FA went to his attorney and was told that he had to disclose the communications to avoid serious consequences. He probably told Dennis that he was going to do so (no blackmail) and RD called his attorney and told him to beat Alonso to the punch.

Let's not forget that there are criminal investigations taking place in Italy and the UK. We will learn much more in the future, but it is entertaining to speculate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm afraid that would breach the technichal regulations about moving aerodynamical devices, the FIA would subsequently fine Mclaren a completely proportional and justified, as always, $250M.

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, i think this is interesting... Of course i don't mean this is the truth but Fernando's version has nothing to do with Ron's one. Someone's lying here... The source is www.as.com and for those who understand spanish this is the link...

http://www.as.com/articulo/motor/Alonso/re...asdaimot_1/Tes/

"Es cierto que Ron Dennis fue el hombre que avis

Edited by kiko01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link Kiko!

I suspect that we will never know the full truth about the case, and I am willing to bet all that what we have been

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fcuk. This has really rattled me.

Indeed. Very few were his equal. I feel much the same way now as I did a few years back when we lost Alboreto. I'm breaking out a bottle of Samichlaus Bier I've been saving for a year then moving on to a Madeira. Don't expect any posts until tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm done discussing the McLaren saga. Many of us have stated our points well but we're now just chewing on the bones. Time to move on.

Edited by Autumnpuma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very few were his equal. Time to move on.

Amen and amen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed. Very few were his equal. I feel much the same way now as I did a few years back when we lost Alboreto. I'm breaking out a bottle of Samichlaus Bier I've been saving for a year then moving on to a Madeira. Don't expect any posts until tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm done discussing the McLaren saga. Many of us have stated our points well but we're now just chewing on the bones. Time to move on.

But...but...we still have so much to discuss! Like which driver looks better doing push ups in a g-string, and some recent rumour saying that Flavio hit Ron before the hearings with a rubber chicken!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But...but...we still have so much to discuss! Like which driver looks better doing push ups in a g-string, and some recent rumour saying that Flavio hit Ron before the hearings with a rubber chicken!

Wurz would look lovely and it wasn't a chicken, it was Flav's new scrawny model girlfriend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wurz would look lovely and it wasn't a chicken, it was Flav's new scrawny model girlfriend.

:lol:

Ok, let's not limit it to the drivers. Just picture Jean Todt doing push ups in a G-string. Do it once before each meal. You will start losing weight fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol:

Ok, let's not limit it to the drivers. Just picture Jean Todt doing push ups in a G-string. Do it once before each meal. You will start losing weight fast.

If we are going to create sickening images, let's do it properly. How about a naked Todt and Haug spanking each other with a gurney flap? Or Patrick Head in a leather catsuit? Charlie Whiting in a scimpy pink nighty and fluffy slippers, anyone? What about Brawn in a bikini? Or Thiessen masturbating?

I'm done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:blink:

Ok...time to lock this thread, put it in a lead container and bury it at sea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we are going to create sickening images, let's do it properly. How about a naked Todt and Haug spanking each other with a gurney flap? Or Patrick Head in a leather catsuit? Charlie Whiting in a scimpy pink nighty and fluffy slippers, anyone? What about Brawn in a bikini? Or Thiessen masturbating?

I'm done.

Those are indeed some sickening images, but I still think Nick Fry's smile is repulsive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

with the evidence coming out of that Fernando and De La Rosa did indeed hide the information from Ron Dennis, and then Fernando try to blackmail Ron and Mclaren, which backfired by Ron going to Max and informing him off this I see no reason why Mclaren should be punished this way. Max's comments over this racing weekend just goes to show what an idiot he really is, could we rally up a sponsorship to hire a hitman on Max please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now