la force supreme des mclaren

Mclaren Fined $100million.........

494 posts in this topic

A wise decision. But I don't think the FIA statement will tell us much, to be honest.

I think exclusion from 2007 was inevitable, but it does highlight the FIAs complete inability to be consistent.

I do wish the FIA statement would explain how the $100 will be used. Charity donations perhaps? Perhaps they'll use it a bit like a Lottery Fund, y'know, hand a bit to Silverstone to build some new bogs, maybe hand some over to Hungary so they can build a longer straight or two?

Egad! They might provide a new yacht in the Monaco harbour to help some of the council 'members' that can't see over the thronging crowds. Mr Frog is quite short :naughty:

Edited by medilloni

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Some random thoughts:

1: Can McLaren cheat in any other ways now? They have nothing to lose, and if drivers are immune, why not go hardcore to win the title?

2: If you're P2 in the constructors and have no shot at the WCC, but do have a shot at the WDC (see Ferrari 2007), why not cheat? You'll get closer to the WDC, and you'll lose the WCC as planned anyway.

3: McLaren is allowed to keep any illegal parts, if there are any, on their car for the last 4 races, further assisting them to having one of their drivers claim the WDC. Action was most likely not taken as it is very hard to prove what is and isn't illegal, but...

Now, please read this post and think to yourself: how is the FIA's ruling not corrupt? Thank you and have a nice day.

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I dont think there is much more to say on the events portrayed today.

I do have one question for you all though - will you watch the rest of this, and next, years championship in the same light? Whatever the evidence tommorrow the outcome is wrong. Either all mclaren should be banned, or nothing. Im a huge mclaren fan but if they openly cheated all should be banned.

I can say that I will most likely not be watching any more F1 after this travesty of justice, again.

The problem is we don't know what the evidence is. And if McLaren get to compete next year I'll watch wth the same delight as this one, cheating stories apart. And they didn't "openly" cheat, it was conceiled until it got out :P

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I dont think there is much more to say on the events portrayed today.

I do have one question for you all though - will you watch the rest of this, and next, years championship in the same light? Whatever the evidence tommorrow the outcome is wrong. Either all mclaren should be banned, or nothing. Im a huge mclaren fan but if they openly cheated all should be banned.

I can say that I will most likely not be watching any more F1 after this travesty of justice, again.

Well, I won't be watching F1 anymore, but for different reasons, as stated in my blog (but I'm still gunna post here...yeah, try to figure that out)

BUT...if I were to watch next year, I would watch it the same way as always...on my bed with my eyes closed :P

Seriously, I wouldn't change...everyone's past can be forgiven. However, I couldn't watch the last 4 races of this year the same way. The World Championship is meaningless once more.

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I dont think there is much more to say on the events portrayed today.

I do have one question for you all though - will you watch the rest of this, and next, years championship in the same light? Whatever the evidence tommorrow the outcome is wrong. Either all mclaren should be banned, or nothing. Im a huge mclaren fan but if they openly cheated all should be banned.

I can say that I will most likely not be watching any more F1 after this travesty of justice, again.

Yes I'll still watch..... and shout even louder at the TV.

The 'All or nothing' bit doesn't hit home for me, the history of the sport is riddled with events like this - the only differences now are that commerce and cash is more involved, the press are hungrier than ever, the sport has its highest profile for a long time.

All that's going to be left for us lot is our own personal belief, our own way of slotting into the 'what's fair, what's not' part of yer brain. That's one of the reasons why these threads exist - everyone with an opinion, some interesting, some poignant, some intelligent - and some, well, strange ones :blush:

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The problem is we don't know what the evidence is. And if McLaren get to compete next year I'll watch wth the same delight as this one, cheating stories apart. And they didn't "openly" cheat, it was conceiled until it got out :P

:lol::clap3:

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The punishment isn't enough and it doesn't make sense.

For example: BAR Honda 2005 were found guilty, yes I know - different sets of circumstances, but the drivers took the punishment. They were banned for three races, and a fine - even though it was not the drivers fault.

I am a supporter of both Alonso and Hamilton, and have liked the team since I was small. But McLaren have gotten away with cheating in my opinion. The drivers should have been punished too as the punishment does not make sense.

If one of them does win the WDC, its a shame. A real shame. It might be a WDC, but it wont mean much.

well... the punishment is really, really hard. I would like to know wich evidences have they found to punish McLaren in such a heavy way.

I agree as far as concerns the drivers. How can you punish only the team? If the car is illegal the racers are taking advantage of it and don't deserve to win the WDC (even when it's not their fault)

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>

^ I only hope McLaren will now pursue the illegal flexi floor issue so as to get back. It would be so cool if Ferrari would be punished like this also.

One down and hopefully on to go.

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well... the punishment is really, really hard. I would like to know wich evidences have they found to punish McLaren in such a heavy way.

I agree as far as concerns the drivers. How can you punish only the team? If the car is illegal the racers are taking advantage of it and don't deserve to win the WDC (even when it's not their fault)

Maybe we shall find out why, when the FIA releases the statement tomorrow with the reasoning behind the penalty. Just a thought.

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>

^ I only hope McLaren will now pursue the illegal flexi floor issue so as to get back. It would be so cool if Ferrari would be punished like this also.

One down and hopefully on to go.

On that sort of reasoning, I think every team would be excluded from the WCC, I don't think any of them are saints.

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On that sort of reasoning, I think every team would be excluded from the WCC, I don't think any of them are saints.

Absolutelly...

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Don't expect that to happen... More on the contrary i'm sure the British press is going to do whatever it takes to help Lewis to become a WDC. Besides i have little doubt as well that Fernando is leaving McLaren (to be honest this is probably what he was waiting for, the punishment that releases him from the contract) so the thing is going to get "complicated" for FA. Wish i'm wrong but i think that the war between FA and LW hasn't started yet :naughty:

Where would Alonso go? Things are not that black and white. There are several spanish sponsors, who I am sure, will not view any shenanigans amused.

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Seems to be a lot of ranting on here - I guess we'll have to wait for Puma & Dribbler although Quiet one, Pabloh20 & Rainmaster are making a good go of it.

IMHO the verdict is nothing short of scandalous - Lewis & Nando should have been excluded as if either win the WDC it will forever tainted by this scandal - If the car is a ringer of the Ferrari surely Lewis & Nando have benefited - Peculiar!

This is my worse day in F1 for over 20 years and I may just switch off - Lewis is good but how do we know how good?

:unsure:

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Where would Alonso go? Things are not that black and white. There are several spanish sponsors, who I am sure, will not view any shenanigans amused.

I think Ferrari would be the only possibility since BMW has its drivers confirmed and i don't think FA is going back to Renault. I have to say though that i would like him to stay at McLaren... Anyhow if things are the way i'm saying (Fernando is leaving McLaren) and to be honest how could anyone blame the team if they would decide helping the racer who is staying? Of course they wouldn't do it blatanly but sure there's a lot of things they can do to favour Lewis over Fernando. If Fernando wants to be WDC for the third time he has to stay where he is.

Edited by kiko01

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I think Ferrari would be the only possibility since BMW has its drivers confirmed and i don't think FA is going back to Renault. I have to say though that i would like him to stay at McLaren... Anyhow if things are the way i'm saying (Fernando is leaving McLaren) and to be honest how could anyone blame the team if they would decide helping the racer who is staying? Of course they wouldn't do it blatanly but sure there's a lot of things they can do to favour Lewis over Fernando. If Fernando wants to be WDC for the third time he has to stay where he is.

The only way that I see for Fernando to stay is if Mercedes becomes the majority stakeholder

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well... the punishment is really, really hard. I would like to know wich evidences have they found to punish McLaren in such a heavy way.

I agree as far as concerns the drivers. How can you punish only the team? If the car is illegal the racers are taking advantage of it and don't deserve to win the WDC (even when it's not their fault)

Same thing happened in Brazil 1995, remember that?

I think its a fair verdict, but the drivers should have gotten a small slap on the wrist. I also think that the money collected should go to Spyker/Super Aguri so they can make F1 a better show.

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Dumb random question:

If Lewis or Nando wins the title, technically McLaren would be entitled to numbers 1 and 2? But due to DQ, wouldn't they run 22 and 23 or 24 and 25? So Ferrari would run 1 and 2, but because Massa/Kimi wouldn't be WDC, it'd be 0 and 2, and thus the return of 0 to the F1 grid? Or would McLaren get 1 and 2? (No, it really doesn't matter, other than the fact that the number 0 on an F1 car is pretty cool)

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There is no point on judging on the harshness of this sentence until the full truth comes out. Speculation is pointless. Either way, it is a bitter blow to the last remaining portion of Formula One that was still regarded as a sport. How Ferrari will take joy in their inheritance of the 2007 WCC, only they will know. They have lost sight of what they are involved in.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, as i'm sure it does for many. Only the staunchest and hard nosed tifosi will take joy in this outcome. To gloat is to totally lose sight of what we are all here for.

I cannot fathom how it has been deemed that Mclaren have made use of the Ferrari documents to good effect and to their own advantage. If that hasn't been proven today then the punishment is a farce.

The evidence had better be good or the FIA have got trouble on their hands. Damning the most professional outfit in F1 makes me feel uneasy. Indy '05 was nothing compared to this.

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They'd get 1 and 2, but the only thing to change would be garage spots changing.

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:mf_tongue:

A ridiculous verdict!

So, F. Alonso and L. Hamilton are allowed to race in an illegal car???

One of them might also become World Campion! Racing an illegal car???

Kings of stupidity!

I am eager to read the full hearing transcript... In case it will not be publicized in whole nobody will trust FIA or the WMSC (not that we do now)...

I wonder what the so-called 'proofs' are (if any)...

And how do Stepney and Coughlan get away with this??? They were the main cause of the whole thing!!! How do they remain unpunished???

And if McLaren gets such a penalty on behalf of one of their personel, why don't punish Ferrari as well? After all, it was Stepney who started it all...

Ah, yes! That was Ferrari's best set-up ever!!!

Congratulations, you champions! Well done! Bravo! A fair and well-deserved glory! You prancing donkeys!...

Championship a la Italiano!

I will come back later... I'm too furious to go on right now...

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I will come back later... I'm too furious to go on right now...

Wow another furious 1 post member!

Welcome to the forum.

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Dumb random question:

If Lewis or Nando wins the title, technically McLaren would be entitled to numbers 1 and 2? But due to DQ, wouldn't they run 22 and 23 or 24 and 25? So Ferrari would run 1 and 2, but because Massa/Kimi wouldn't be WDC, it'd be 0 and 2, and thus the return of 0 to the F1 grid? Or would McLaren get 1 and 2? (No, it really doesn't matter, other than the fact that the number 0 on an F1 car is pretty cool)

Ayrton Senna would disagree...

=========================================

From Autosport, sorry if already posted...

McLaren defer decision over appeal

By Steve CooperThursday, September 13th 2007, 18:56 GMT

McLaren will decide over the weekend if to appeal the World Motor Sport Council decision today to strip the team of their constructors standing and fine them with $100 million USD.

Speaking at a team press conference following the announcement of the WMSC decision, McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh stated they will first study the reasoning behind the heavy penalty before making a decision on a possible appeal.

The FIA said it will publish the WMSC's full decision tomorrow.

"We believe we've got the grounds for an appeal," Whitmarsh said. "But of course we're going to wait for the findings of the FIA, which we believe are going to be published tomorrow, and we'll consider those carefully before we make that decision."

Prior to that, McLaren chief Ron Dennis gave his statement to the press, emphasizing again his that his team did not use confidential information from Ferrari.

"The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season," Dennis said. "This means that the drivers can continue to compete for the (drivers) world championship.

"However, having been at the hearing today, I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputations damaged in this way.

Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.

"Much has been made in the press and in the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers.

"The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that they have not passed any confidential data to the team.

"The entire engineering team, in excess of 140 people, provided statements to the FIA confirming that they had never received or used Ferrari information.

"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees, in his home. The issue is, was this information used by McLaren?

"This is not the case and has not been proven today."

Dennis reiterated that ex-Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney and former McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan - the two men at the heart of this spying saga - acted for selfish reasons and not with the intention of assisting McLaren.

"We are also continually asked if McLaren didn't use the information, what was the reason for Stepney and Coughlan collecting all this data about Ferrari?" Dennis commented.

"We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today's hearing, but we do know that they were both seeking employment with other teams, as already confirmed by both Honda and Toyota."

Dennis also referred to the WMSC's decision to defer any decision on possible sanctions in 2008 after reviewing the team's car for next year.

"There will be no issue for the 2008 season, as we have not at any stage used any intellectual property of any other team," Dennis stated.

"We have got the best drivers and we have the best car, and we intend to win the world championship."

space.gif

Personally I hope Mclaren don't appeal as I want this thing over with - it's terrible for F1 and my mental health.

Also, even if they did appeal FIA would probably be too embarrassed to reverse/lessen penalty.

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:mf_tongue:

A ridiculous verdict!

So, F. Alonso and L. Hamilton are allowed to race in an illegal car???

One of them might also become World Campion! Racing an illegal car???

Kings of stupidity!

I am eager to read the full hearing transcript... In case it will not be publicized in whole nobody will trust FIA or the WMSC (not that we do now)...

I wonder what the so-called 'proofs' are (if any)...

And how do Stepney and Coughlan get away with this??? They were the main cause of the whole thing!!! How do they remain unpunished???

And if McLaren gets such a penalty on behalf of one of their personel, why don't punish Ferrari as well? After all, it was Stepney who started it all...

Ah, yes! That was Ferrari's best set-up ever!!!

Congratulations, you champions! Well done! Bravo! A fair and well-deserved glory! You prancing donkeys!...

Championship a la Italiano!

I will come back later... I'm too furious to go on right now...

I wonder how all you proclaimed "experts" comment with such ease!FIA is not a court of law and you better await for the criminal prosecutions to find out when the trial will be held in public. You are (plural) so much over your head, you can't even realise Mclaren are the cheaters and got PUNISHED. Does anyone question the fact they had the documents?Did they use them?Well FIA sure appears to think so.Therefore they cheated Ferrari and their own fans.

Have you ever been remotely close to a procedure of this nature?You think FIA used the internet to gather evidence like you and the others here do?

If you really think so, I believe you should start dealing with simpler things or go to the "kittens" thread or something.

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