Speeding

[dribbler 6]

Here in the U.K. we are becoming increasingly constrained on our roads by the appearance of speed cameras (sorry, 'safety cameras').

What infuriates me is the notion that speed kills. In my opinion, it is misuse of speed that kills; speed in inappropriate places and in adverse weather conditions. There is a down turn in police numbers on British roads which means that (apart from the visual deterrent missing) there are less police officers to educate road users on the dangers of bad driving. People cry that the speed limits are out of date and need re-assessing. I disagree. In the short term i think we need to educate our nation of drivers in order for them to be able to deal responsibly with any speed limit increase. The standard of driving on British roads is declining rapidly. I am interested to hear from you all what measures, if any, are deployed around the world to slow traffic down. Also, do you fell aggrieved by these measures? what would you like to see instead?

I'm not bitching because i have been caught by one of these cameras, by the way!

[Piotr 0]

Here in the U.K. we are becoming increasingly constrained on our roads by the appearance of speed cameras (sorry, 'safety cameras').

What infuriates me is the notion that speed kills. In my opinion, it is misuse of speed that kills; speed in inappropriate places and in adverse weather conditions. There is a down turn in police numbers on British roads which means that (apart from the visual deterrent missing) there are less police officers to educate road users on the dangers of bad driving. People cry that the speed limits are out of date and need re-assessing. I disagree. In the short term i think we need to educate our nation of drivers in order for them to be able to deal responsibly with any speed limit increase. The standard of driving on British roads is declining rapidly. I am interested to hear from you all what measures, if any, are deployed around the world to slow traffic down. Also, do you fell aggrieved by these measures? what would you like to see instead?

I'm not bitching because i have been caught by one of these cameras, by the way!

Right on! If speed kills, then we all should ride horse and buggies - we'll all be safer!

[rumblestrip 0]

Oh no... this is one subject I'm not getting into again. I have a bit of experience in this area due to my job, and it's a very sore subject around the office.

Let's just say that as far as speed cameras go in the US, I have yet to see one report about them increasing safety where the data has not been cherry-picked to support any result that allows local governments to keep raking in the cash from the cameras.

Our county promised that the cameras would only be in < 30mph school zones. But there's already one in the 40 zone in my town, where there is no school. Why? Because no one was speeding past the school, so the camera made $0. So they had to move it to where it would be able to pay for itself. Does it nab people? Not many, because now people hang a right before they get to it and zoom through my neighborhood. That sure makes things safer... NOT.

If ever a kid gets run down by a cut-through driver the sheet is going to hit the fan.

[David Adams 0]

I feel that I have a professional opinion on this matter, been a driving instructor.

The speed limits enforced are very much out dated, I feel I could easily manage 50 mph in my well maintained vehicle and be able to stop safely prior to any potential accident on any current 30 mph street. As mentioned in the original post however its all about determing factors, such as time, daylight, visibility etc.

There is no way of policing such things and unfortunately I see idiots (taxi's, van drivers etc) driving at excessively high speeds dozens of times a day, with little to no awareness and planning of things going on 20 metres down the road, nevermind 200 metres down the road. A few times a week I also see the odd senior citizen driving their vehicle at 20 mph causing more carnage then the ones doing 50 (this morning was my last view of this occurance as an old geezer nearly got run over by almost pulling underneath (yes, underneath) a truck directly next to him.

Speed cameras are just another tax on an already highly taxed society and like most taxes have their place, I personally would enjoy seeing every driver on the road re-tested annually to an advanced standard and GPS tracking systems that track speeds in use, followed up by an automated system shut down of a car driving at excessive speeds.

Unfortunately I don't make any decisions, I train drivers to the best of my ability, get them through a very outdated test unfit for purpose, then rinse/repeat...

Hmm, did I rant there? I reckon so....

EDIT: Coincidentally I just flicked through another tab I had open, which contained this report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7009923.stm

Something a speed camera would never be able to accomodate...

[tifosi too! 0]

Oh no... this is one subject I'm not getting into again. I have a bit of experience in this area due to my job, and it's a very sore subject around the office.

Let's just say that as far as speed cameras go in the US, I have yet to see one report about them increasing safety where the data has not been cherry-picked to support any result that allows local governments to keep raking in the cash from the cameras.

Our county promised that the cameras would only be in < 30mph school zones. But there's already one in the 40 zone in my town, where there is no school. Why? Because no one was speeding past the school, so the camera made $0. So they had to move it to where it would be able to pay for itself. Does it nab people? Not many, because now people hang a right before they get to it and zoom through my neighborhood. That sure makes things safer... NOT.

If ever a kid gets run down by a cut-through driver the sheet is going to hit the fan.

Well at least your country was honest enough to admit that the "safety cameras" are a trap and nothing more and at least tried not to rob people off. Everybody violates the speed limits especially in country roads and highways. Even the most law-abinding citizen will have to overtake and "speed" and of course fined. Here (Cyprus) the set cameras up in HIGHways were the limit is 100kph and of course they hide in the best hide-outs to set them.

They even set them up on almost deserted roads at 3-4 in the morning, just to catch a "speeding criminal"!! Safety is not their primary concern and I 'm pretty sure of that, the heavy fines are

I see many idiots on the road each day though, so I support law and order while driving because I prefer to get home safe every day!!

I disagree with the methods though ...

[rumblestrip 0]

The speed limits enforced are very much out dated, I feel I could easily manage 50 mph in my well maintained vehicle and be able to stop safely prior to any potential accident on any current 30 mph street.

That's by design. We grow up driving on roads where we're encouraged to believe that the speed limit can be "bent". So at any given time, around 85-90% of all drivers are over the posted limit by some amount. So, whenever a local government needs cash, it's just a matter of putting a radar gun anywhere and pick people off. I'm not talking about the crazy 60mph in a 25 zone people, mind you. They need to be caught. But we're at a point where there's no distinction between them and the people who are driving safely, other than the dollar amount of the fine.

And when you get caught, they'll say, "You broke the law, now quit whining" when in fact the point of the law was to generate as many violators as possible.

Ugh, I said I wasn't going to get into this, and here I go.

[rumblestrip 0]

Well at least your country was honest enough to admit that the "safety cameras" are a trap and nothing more and at least tried not to rob people off.

Actually, the whole "school zone" thing was just to get the pubic to accept the cameras without much protest. After all, how could anyone not care about the safety of the children? But once they were approved, the floodgates were open, and since they're mounted in vans, they can be set up anywhere, and they now are.

Here (Cyprus) the set cameras up in HIGHways were the limit is 100kph and of course they hide in the best hide-outs to set them.

I always ask, "If they want people to slow down, then why do they hide the cameras/police car?"

The answer typically being, "Because if people saw them, then they'd slow down"

Gotta love the logic behind that answer.

[Eric 0]

Yay super happy fun speeding!

I go 75 mph in a 65 mph zone, and that should be too fast...yet I still get passed by a million people.

As a racecar driver, speed DOES kill. But I don't see anything wrong with the current US laws, and hell, I can't change them. It's really all about knowing your limit and all that. You need to be in control at all times and you'll be alright, but sometimes I think people misjudge that.

The man in me makes me like fast cars. The practical geek in me makes me wonder why cars are designed to go over 65 mph. If they really cared, they'd do the latter. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I'm alright with 10 mph over, but nothing more, and always drive the speed limit in residential areas because of blind corners and kids and stuff. But really, I think drunk driving and riding in blind spots and people speeding on motorcycles and txting/talking on cell phones while driving and road rage is more of an issue than going a couple mph over.

[Rainmaster 7]

Well some (most?) people will always abuse the rules, it isn't necessarily speeding but bad driving in general - you know people not indicating, or not being aware of others on the road that creates the most problems.

I suppose, like with anything, some people are good at driving and some are not - some will be aware & alert, obey the rules, learn their limits and others won't bother.

Even if the standard of education improved dramatically, some people simply cannot change or will just do what they want anyway, despite knowing the risks - sort of like smoking.

About speed cameras making the government money, not so sure about that to be honest, it really isn't that much - it was covered on Top Gear and they said it was

[David Adams 0]

I believe it was closer to 60 million in profit? The rest goes to the division that runs that particular area, so their wages and expenses etc.

Create 10 small areas that make 60 million and thats over half a billion. The Labour government has seen the power of these small fines and taxes, which when added together give them a very large additional cash stockpile.

What happens to that stockpile, I guess we will never know, I would assume its how they pay for new Jaguars to ride around in and to fund those secret weekend breaks with rooms full of naked humping lesbians.

...On that note, im off to bed

[Rainmaster 7]

I believe it was closer to 60 million in profit? The rest goes to the division that runs that particular area, so their wages and expenses etc.

Create 10 small areas that make 60 million and thats over half a billion. The Labour government has seen the power of these small fines and taxes, which when added together give them a very large additional cash stockpile.

What happens to that stockpile, I guess we will never know, I would assume its how they pay for new Jaguars to ride around in and to fund those secret weekend breaks with rooms full of naked humping lesbians.

...On that note, im off to bed

I don't think so, I just read something which says

[Piotr 0]

Yay super happy fun speeding!

I go 75 mph in a 65 mph zone, and that should be too fast...yet I still get passed by a million people.

As a racecar driver, speed DOES kill. But I don't see anything wrong with the current US laws, and hell, I can't change them. It's really all about knowing your limit and all that. You need to be in control at all times and you'll be alright, but sometimes I think people misjudge that.

The man in me makes me like fast cars. The practical geek in me makes me wonder why cars are designed to go over 65 mph. If they really cared, they'd do the latter. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I'm alright with 10 mph over, but nothing more, and always drive the speed limit in residential areas because of blind corners and kids and stuff. But really, I think drunk driving and riding in blind spots and people speeding on motorcycles and txting/talking on cell phones while driving and road rage is more of an issue than going a couple mph over.

U R forgetting driving 10 mph BELOW the limit in the left lane and preventing anybody who tries to pass you. Or speeding up to make merging impossible.

[Eric 0]

Yay super happy fun self-appointed speed limit enforcers!!

You're right, Piotr, I forgot all about them.

[Piotr 0]

Yay super happy fun self-appointed speed limit enforcers!!

You're right, Piotr, I forgot all about them.

BTW, I was passing Dover Downs this Sunday watching the crowds off DE Rt. 1, while a wild cheer erupted. I believe it was that 7 car pile up. I had plenty of time to watch, because EVERYBODY slowed down- aka "gapers delay" followed by a "sunglare delay", followed by "possibility of showers (i.e. gotta be ready IF it rains) delay."

[Eric 0]

BTW, I was passing Dover Downs this Sunday watching the crowds off DE Rt. 1, while a wild cheer erupted. I believe it was that 7 car pile up. I had plenty of time to watch, because EVERYBODY slowed down- aka "gapers delay" followed by a "sunglare delay", followed by "possibility of showers (i.e. gotta be ready IF it rains) delay."

Yeah I can imagine! I didn't see the 7-car pileup...I was watching during commercials of the Pats game, but after Rusty said "You know something boys, with this COT you need to switch lanes to pass"...right...as apposed to the old car where you could stay in the same lane and just drive over or under the guy in front of you... ...I decided it was best to not watch.

BUT I did get my Pocono ticket renewal in the mail today...so off to see Scotty and Dario and Labonte and Montoya...and maybe even my friend Santos (doubt it)...and maybe JV. Should be fun!

[goferrarigo 0]

Advantage of India: No speed Cameras....

We even have a timer system on traffic lights to know when to start your engines and how long the bloddy signal(traffic light) will last for....(<<<In Bombay, not sure of all over India)

[Eric 0]

I always wanted to go to India just to be in the chaos that is Indian traffic. It looks fun. It must prepare guys like Narain and Karun to be good drivers...easily avoid obstacles (i.e. the Spykers)...

I've already applied to be on Amazing Race (American reality TV show, bascially 12 teams of 2 travel around the world, loser gets eliminated each week, winner gets $1,000,000...and usually it goes to India...but my team was rejected by big bad CBS)

[goferrarigo 0]

I always wanted to go to India just to be in the chaos that is Indian traffic. It looks fun. It must prepare guys like Narain and Karun to be good drivers...easily avoid obstacles (i.e. the Spykers)...

I've already applied to be on Amazing Race (American reality TV show, bascially 12 teams of 2 travel around the world, loser gets eliminated each week, winner gets $1,000,000...and usually it goes to India...but my team was rejected by big bad CBS)

Damn CBS, if you got it, i would think it would be good fun...

In India you get very good driver training.... As a taxi guy(or anyone for that matter) sees a L plate on your car he will purposly try to cut infront of your car irrespective of how much traffic there is...

[dribbler 6]

Advantage of India: No speed Cameras....

Diadvantage of India; the worst road accident death toll in the world.

[monza gorilla 1]

Good topic Steve.

Speed doesn't kill. Bad driving does. There is a difference. Unfortunately, the police and bean counters aren't bright enough to make that distinction.

[Jean Todt 4]

Advantage of India: No speed Cameras....

We even have a timer system on traffic lights to know when to start your engines and how long the bloddy signal(traffic light) will last for....(<<<In Bombay, not sure of all over India)

Yeah, there are good roads here, from Chennai to Banglore, I easily clocked 235 in a BMW until a cow p**sing right in the middle of the road spoiled my fun!

[Jean Todt 4]

I always wanted to go to India just to be in the chaos that is Indian traffic. It looks fun. It must prepare guys like Narain and Karun to be good drivers...easily avoid obstacles (i.e. the Spykers)...

I've already applied to be on Amazing Race (American reality TV show, bascially 12 teams of 2 travel around the world, loser gets eliminated each week, winner gets $1,000,000...and usually it goes to India...but my team was rejected by big bad CBS)

Congrants ERIC! You need some training from the Guru!

ME!

[dribbler 6]

Speed doesn't kill. Bad driving does. There is a difference. Unfortunately, the police and bean counters aren't bright enough to make that distinction.

I think they know damned well the distinction. They just know it's too big a job to get all drivers to drive correctly so they discriminate the majority, that's the infuriating part. If every single person could comprehend the sense of driving to the conditions presented to them we wouldn't even need speed limits. But then i guess that is true for law in general. If everyone lived by a decent moral conduct we wouldn't need any laws atall and there would be not much trouble in the world. Is it really that difficult? Seemingly, yes. I am not of greater than average intelligence and yet i see the virtues of this kind of living. Ah, here i go again.....just finished a hard days welding....Stella in glass....putting the world to rights.

[Jean Todt 4]

Diadvantage of India; the worst road accident death toll in the world.

STEVE GOT CAUGHT FOR SPEEDING!

I have lost several friends though!

[goferrarigo 0]

Diadvantage of India; the worst road accident death toll in the world.

I'm not saying India is very good on road safety but i really doubt we are the worst....

But in China Road accidents kill 300 A DAY And i would'nt think India has more....

Only offical stats i found in my 2min research on this is the world bank http://www.worldbank.org/transport/roads/safety.htm the first point and then the excel file which shows in 1900-1994 Rwanda had a very high road kill accidents...