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stopkidding

Ferrari: Raikkonen At Schumacher's Level

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Kimi's first season with Ferarri is similar to Michael's first(which is how I think the comparison is meant)

But as an overall driver .... Definitely a little premature to compare Kimi to Michael.

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It has been my firm belief since 2003 that Kimi is in raw speed Michael's equal if not slightly better. He doesn't play the percentages/no.1 driver card/any lengths game that Michael did which costs him in the record book but wheel to wheel we've seen they're extremely well matched.

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It has been my firm belief since 2003 that Kimi is in raw speed Michael's equal if not slightly better. He doesn't play the percentages/no.1 driver card/any lengths game that Michael did which costs him in the record book but wheel to wheel we've seen they're extremely well matched.

I tend to agree, but then again, I can't claim to have watch Schumi's style closely during his title winning years. I guess it's just the impression that I get. Suzuka 05 anyone?

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I tend to agree, but then again, I can't claim to have watch Schumi's style closely during his title winning years. I guess it's just the impression that I get. Suzuka 05 anyone?

Schumi earned a lot of respect in his early years, and he always did the setting up, something at which he was really good, so I guess in the end he decided to ask for something he thought he deserved, a faithful N

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Suzuka 05 anyone?

What about it? Kimi had a superior car that day. We never really saw Kimi and Michael go wheel to wheel in equal cars. The times when it could be argued that they did (ie Spa '04) Kimi was spell binding, i have to concede. But then i will always remember with fondness and respect the move Michael made on him at Brazil last year. It felt like 'yep, i'm going, but here's a free lesson just before i go'.

I think it fair to say that Michael was more complete. Kimi has a way to go yet before he can deliver that sort of faultless and utterly dependable performance over a whole season. If Michael was off colour, it was a massive deal because it was so out of character. Kimi seems more suceptible to that sort of erratic form.

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Yup, Steve. As everyone knows, I personally doubt whether they have ever had cars sufficiently equal that we can reliably measure any difference in pure speed. That difference is less than 0.1s/lap imho. So in fact it wouldn't really make all that much difference. Schumi was a far greater team leader and had a far better work ethic for developing the car and finding every little advantage available. He was more consistent over a race distance too. Kimi's one advantage over the great man is how he copes with unusual pressure, like in a title decider. Not caring/thinking/bothering works wonders in those situations!

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Yup, you sum it up pretty well, Murray. Let's hope Kimi will achieve some of the Schumi's traits in his years to come in Ferrari. Just a little consistency and it will do him really good!

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Kimi's one advantage over the great man is how he copes with unusual pressure, like in a title decider. Not caring/thinking/bothering works wonders in those situations!

Hadn't thought of that before. I guess it's too easy to interpret Kimi's attitude as one of not caring less. Clearly he does, it's just that he's as excitable as a stoned tortoise.

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KR=MS? Do they hate MS at Ferrari more than I do?

So, he won a few races. Kudos for him. That makes him a Schumi?

He is so not like Schumi that you could see his tires completely worn. MS (that darned cheater, just in case you think I have any simpathy for him) would have raced this same race and ended with his tires in perfect condition.

Schumi was not just fast. Schumi was aware of every single part of his car and used it to his advantage. He used to change the race line not because he was clueless about what the hell is a racing line (like Massa) but because he was looking for the best patch of tarmac in every place to preserve his tires during changing weather conditions.

He knew when to preserve the engine, when he could push it to the limit. He was also a strategist. Would never made a mistake like Lewis did at the last race (granted, LH is a rookie, and MS learnt with time).

So, what did Kimi do to be considered like Schumi again?

Thank you that man!

Kimi was gifted the WDC by Ferrari with the aid of Massa - Massa's season was compromised on so many occasions to ensure Kimi could win the WDC and justify his huge retainer. For me, he has to prove that he is consistently faster than Massa before he can be judged anywhere near the great man.

Michael is the greatest ever F1 driver and will remain so in my lifetime I'm sure. Lewis, Nando & Kimi will not come near to his achievements by the time they retire.

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Kimi's one advantage over the great man is how he copes with unusual pressure, like in a title decider.

This year's WDC des not prove that Kimi handled the pressure as there was no pressure on him as he had nothing to lose coming from so far back. - Lewis and Nando had the pressure - Massa was handicaped into playing a support role while the macca guys pressed the self destruct button.

Lewis had similar pressure to that endured by Michael not Kimi.

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Yup, you sum it up pretty well, Murray. Let's hope Kimi will achieve some of the Schumi's traits in his years to come in Ferrari. Just a little consistency and it will do him really good!

Yeah. Kimi's maybe the most talented driver around, and certainly the cutest coolest, and it would be great to see him improve and only narrowly lose out to Lewis in the years to come. :P

Hadn't thought of that before. I guess it's too easy to interpret Kimi's attitude as one of not caring less. Clearly he does, it's just that he's as excitable as a stoned tortoise.

Yeah that's a fair and reasonable point. I'm in an angry mood (totally screwed at work) so I'll even go further and say that Kimi maybe cares as much but doesn't work as hard as people like MS. One of the most interesting things for me in the last week was hearing all 3 WDC contenders say whether they had memorised who would win in all the different finishing orders in Brazil. Lewis and Nando both said simply "yes", whereas Kimi said (I'm paraphrasing...) "for sure, no: I think so I'm just going to win the race and take a Sh#t see what happens but you have to ask the team for sure". It seems to me that that sums up their attitudes perfectly. If I'm right about their differences, Kimi's attitude is best when under huge pressure but not so good for the rest of the year.

(Here's the transcript but it's not worth reading unless you're bored...)

This year's WDC des not prove that Kimi handled the pressure as there was no pressure on him as he had nothing to lose coming from so far back. - Lewis and Nando had the pressure - Massa was handicaped into playing a support role while the macca guys pressed the self destruct button.

Lewis had similar pressure to that endured by Michael not Kimi.

Fair point again. Nothing here is provable (not even that MS was the greatest in recent years, though I believe it too), but I suspect that Kimi would handle the pressure better. Tbh I think even Lewis did better under pressure than Michael.

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Michael is the greatest ever F1 driver and will remain so in my lifetime I'm sure. Lewis, Nando & Kimi will not come near to his achievements by the time they retire.

Pah. Senna.

No, I joke of course, each to his own!

Michael was indeed a more complete and consistant driver than Kimi, Schumi's gift was to be able to stay on the limit for longer than others, well that was one of his many gifts anyway.

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If I'm right about their differences, Kimi's attitude is best when under huge pressure but not so good for the rest of the year.

I actually agree with this part of your post and have often argued that this is his coping mechanism - Throughout his career he always appears to be catching the leaders from a position of weakness - He is never leading the standing, he is always catching up -

My guess is that he doesn't handle the pressure of expectation very well and manages to engineer circumstances that place him as the under dog.

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Yeah. Kimi's maybe the most talented driver around, and certainly the cutest coolest, and it would be great to see him improve and only narrowly lose out to Lewis in the years to come. :P

Now, now, you needn't be jealous of the guy :P

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:o ssshhhhh - don't tell the others I'm not as cute as Kimi. :(:meh: Well, at least they know first hand exactly how cool I am... :coolio::goldeneye:

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I actually agree with this part of your post and have often argued that this is his coping mechanism - Throughout his career he always appears to be catching the leaders from a position of weakness - He is never leading the standing, he is always catching up -

My guess is that he doesn't handle the pressure of expectation very well and manages to engineer circumstances that place him as the under dog.

You are saying that he would intentionally "sabotage" (for lack of a better word, excuse me) himself just because he can't handle pressure? I don't know how clever is he, but I think no one would do that!

:o ssshhhhh - don't tell the others I'm not as cute as Kimi. :(:meh: Well, at least they know first hand exactly how cool I am... :coolio::goldeneye:

Of course^^

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I actually agree with this part of your post and have often argued that this is his coping mechanism - Throughout his career he always appears to be catching the leaders from a position of weakness - He is never leading the standing, he is always catching up -

My guess is that he doesn't handle the pressure of expectation very well and manages to engineer circumstances that place him as the under dog.

and you are saying those positions were his fault and not his equipment???? He somehow engineered these circumstances??? What on earth are you talking about???? Were'nt Kimi consistently leading the 2003 championship in a developing car until the superior Ferrari and BMW's caught up.....

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and you are saying those positions were his fault and not his equipment???? He somehow engineered these circumstances??? What on earth are you talking about???? Were'nt Kimi consistently leading the 2003 championship in a developing car until the superior Ferrari and BMW's caught up.....
He lead the championship for a long time and didn't falter, yeah. To this day still look back on his mature approach to that year in an inferior, unreliable car and how close he came in his third season to taking one of the least likely WDCs ever and can't help but be seriously impressed. I do believe Mclaren's offerings held him back through the years which is a shame because I'm a huge Mclaren fangirl of the worst kind but I think Kimi deserves good fortune and however he finds it I'll be cheering for him.

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He lead the championship for a long time and didn't falter, yeah. To this day still look back on his mature approach to that year in an inferior, unreliable car and how close he came in his third season to taking one of the least likely WDCs ever and can't help but be seriously impressed. I do believe Mclaren's offerings held him back through the years which is a shame because I'm a huge Mclaren fangirl of the worst kind but I think Kimi deserves good fortune and however he finds it I'll be cheering for him.

ah, a lovely post as lovely as your name...

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Thank you that man!

Kimi was gifted the WDC by Ferrari with the aid of Massa - Massa's season was compromised on so many occasions to ensure Kimi could win the WDC and justify his huge retainer. For me, he has to prove that he is consistently faster than Massa before he can be judged anywhere near the great man.

Michael is the greatest ever F1 driver and will remain so in my lifetime I'm sure. Lewis, Nando & Kimi will not come near to his achievements by the time they retire.

Ferrari deliberately sabotages their own car in the middle of a campaign? while trailing seriously in not only the Drivers' but the Constructors' Championship aswell? That's a really special statement.

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:wtf:

Kimi at Schumi's level? :laughing::lmavfa:

I say, he is higher! Schumi used the rules and time and support to his advantage and, you must admit that Kimi literally had his hands tied while he was at Mclaren. He had to work like a robot. He has to talk when they saw "talk". he has to poo when they say "poo". At Ferrari, I think he is more free and he is quitely going and doing his job with no one's notice, which is a good thing. This is Kimi's first season with Ferrari, and he has blown away Massa and other drivers with the most silent bomb.

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Agreed.

Maybe Kimi is capable of reproducing Michael's 2004 season (yawn), but whether he is capable of Spain 94, Spa 95, Spain 96, Monaco 97, Hungary 98 (just to name a few) remains to be seen.

Kimi's fightback in China was outstanding, just like the races you have mentioned.

We shall see how much like Schumacher Kimi is next year, now that he's truly settled and there isnt the (valid) tyre excuse that him & Alonso were using.

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Kimi's fightback in China was outstanding, just like the races you have mentioned.

We shall see how much like Schumacher Kimi is next year, now that he's truly settled and there isnt the (valid) tyre excuse that him & Alonso were using.

There will always be the car excuse, because people seem to think the car that wins the championship to be the best one :lol:

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Yeah. Kimi's maybe the most talented driver around, and certainly the cutest coolest, and it would be great to see him improve and only narrowly lose out to Lewis in the years to come. :P

Button's the cutest F1 driver. You've got an awful taste. I don't want to imagine what kind of men you sleep with.

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