Alonso To Renault!!!

[maure 1]

What I am saying is that had it been a preposterous allegation Nando would have denied it emphatically - By stating that there is another side to the story infers only an inaccuracy in parts of the story not the whole story. As the 'whole' story is the alleged blackmail IMHO the detail is not really relevant

We can only guess, true, and speak in terms of "likelyhood".

My take is that Alonso didn't need to threat anybody after what happened in Hungary. At that point, simply begging for equality would have been an impossible. Further, RD had reason to lie about the incident as it conveniently made Alonso bear the weight of the espionage scandal while cowardly displacing his own responsibility.

[Quiet One 15]

I did think it was a strange post (I'm just learning to identify you from the rest)... there is irony, true, in that it would not have been at all out of place in this forum.

I am easy to identify from the rest. I am the bald one.

What I meant with my previous post was: if he is the monster everybody says he is, why are all the teams fighting over to get such a troublemaker? Maybe the official version of the fatcs wasn't so accurate? Maybe he is not such a monster after all? If the official version was true, I could understand Renault making their bid, they must think they could control him in the past and they will control him now. I could understand to a lesser extent Red Bull, perhaps they would be willing to accept every little demand from Nando just to have a 2 times WDC in their team. But that still would not explain why a Williams, a BMW, a Toyota or others with more experience and less needy would be so willing to get a pilot that will tear them apart like he suposedly did at McLaren. Unless they know he is not that bad and uncontrollable as we were told.

My english is barely good enough to participate in this forum. Regretfuly, I have a certain tendency to ramble too much and my posts are usually confusing, which doesn't help.

[maure 1]

Not my own thoughts, but I've always agreed with them..... I used to work for a race car designer that said drivers that are in demand at particular times in motorsport history, is to some degree matching their style of driving to how a car could work best within the current regulations.

It took me a while to figure this out (being a spotty apprentice at the time), but there are examples of this over F1's (relatively recent) past....

An example might be, in the early days of ground effects it was important to have a smooth driver, one that didn't have a natural style that changed the cars attitude at corner entry. So, for example, Jim Clark/Alain Prost styles.

Bringing this to todays drivers and regulations, the last few years have seen the regs change in such a way that creating good and consistent front tyre temperatures (and grip) has been one of the single most important aspects of car design. My opinion (and that's all it is!!) is that Alonso is an exceptional driver - but the one aspect of his style is that his technique naturally plays to generating front end grip.

So, we now have a driver that, if he can comunicate his style and how he wants the dynamics of the car to be, then you have a driver that lends (possibly) more direction to development and set-up. So why is Alonso (theoretically) hot property? He's at a massivley high level of driving skill in a different way to the some of the other drivers - the attraction being (purely as a driver!) that he should be able to help answer questions about why a car doesn't work too well and therefore provide direction to the team. Maybe this is why he could be preferred over some current drivers Mike.......

Next year sees some fairly major changes in regs and design, maybe this will shift emphasis to a slightly different style. As a thought, will Hamilton's style (slightly tail out before apex) be a good thing or not? Will no traction control (or less!!) help or hinder Alonso's style?

Hmm, all of this talk about a drivers 'style' or 'natural way of driving' - well they're meant to be able to change this aren't they? In theory yes, and most good ones do to a great extent - but each driver has a DNA when he starts out, a flair, a comfort zone, methods of driving that give them most pleasure - call it what you will, but that 'deep down' method a driver uses is hard to get rid of completely......... Try changing your heel and toe technique permanently!!!

Oh, and for the record, I don't think a driver can give 0.6 of a second to a car that was designed before he stepped in it either. He may as well have said he was .6 faster than Kimi, which is boollox

Interesting read.

Doesn't Kubica have a similar style to Alonso, though?

[maure 1]

I am easy to identify from the rest. I am the bald one.

What I meant with my previous post was: if he is the monster everybody says he is, why are all the teams fighting over to get such a troublemaker? Maybe the official version of the fatcs wasn't so accurate? Maybe he is not such a monster after all? If the official version was true, I could understand Renault making their bid, they must think they could control him in the past and they will control him now. I could understand to a lesser extent Red Bull, perhaps they would be willing to accept every little demand from Nando just to have a 2 times WDC in their team. But that still would not explain why a Williams, a BMW, a Toyota or others with more experience and less needy would be so willing to get a pilot that will tear them apart like he suposedly did at McLaren. Unless they know he is not that bad and uncontrollable as we were told.

My english is barely good enough to participate in this forum. Regretfuly, I have a certain tendency to ramble too much and my posts are usually confusing, which doesn't help.

First, your english is absolutely fine. Many should wish they had your level of fluency on any language (including their own mother tongue).

You are correct, the "official" version is a fraud and, in my opinion, it is designed by RD and lewisterics to cover their own behinds. That enough should be a clue.

The cool heads around here understand and tell without shame that drivers in F1 (Kimi, Alonso, Massa, even unproven ones such as Hamilton or Vettel) are formidably skilled.

Alonso's move is of interest precisesly because of this. In all likelyhood, he will land in a middle team and that is good for me, at least. Not only becuase it means that Kimi will have a 2nd WC in the bag but because Alonso will have to fight through the field. I am looking forward to that, very much.

The whole hysteria is not an issue for Business F1. It is McLaren the one in trouble. It is RD who has fcked up. Alonso doesn't have to prove anything, really. They do.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

why are all the teams fighting over to get such a troublemaker?

Money.

1) He is fast and has proven he can deliver therefore a good bet.

2) Any publicity even bad publicity gets front-page news and even though the sponsors may get uncomfortable at times, the more people talk about him the more coverage an airtime is given to the car, its sponsors, etc. You only have to read the press releases to see this in action: "...Vodafone McLaren Mercedes... says...." etc.

3) He has a massively loyal fan base worldwide, but particularly in the Iberian peninsular and in S.America - this being a key growth market for many companies.

[YHR 0]

He just wanted an early bath in Fuji then?

You'll note I said "Hardly". How many other offs has he had???, and that is answer is the reason IMO as to why he is sought after. Just remember, his "horrible" season, and "poor" driving ended him up equal in points with Hamiliton. You give Alonso the full support of a top team and he will still win championships.

As I stated before, Ron Dennis mismanaged this driver arrangement, and caused Mclaren a huge amount of pain. Fully supporting Alonso would have won the WDC and LH would would be remembered for his great rookie drive, not "how could he lose it with two races to go". Both drivers get screwed, Mclaren gets screwed, and who knows what their driver line up is going to look like for next year. All we know is they have a talented sophomore, and that is about it.

[5P33D3V1L 0]

If you thrash the pants off a car it's more likely to fail than if it's being dawdled around by a fat Columbian.

That line just made my day lol.

And yea I believe your right. Alonso wasn't at Mclaren for that long so I doubt he made that much of a difference.

I believe his best option is Renault. I hear lots of people saying he will join Red Bull but arent both their drivers under contract? And I seriously dont believe they can make a championship contending car....Yet.

Renault have the experience and he knows the team well. And I believe that Alonso and Renault were a good match. I mean he won 2 championships with them. So it to me him going to Mclaren was a strange decision.

I think the best option would be Renault and Red Bull.

Toyota would take to long to build into a race winning team. Also Williams doesnt have the Financial backing of a Manufacter team so I doubt he would be going to Williams. But Alonso and Rosberg would be a great driver pairing.

[Quiet One 15]

Money.

1) He is fast and has proven he can deliver therefore a good bet.

2) Any publicity even bad publicity gets front-page news and even though the sponsors may get uncomfortable at times, the more people talk about him the more coverage an airtime is given to the car, its sponsors, etc. You only have to read the press releases to see this in action: "...Vodafone McLaren Mercedes... says...." etc.

3) He has a massively loyal fan base worldwide, but particularly in the Iberian peninsular and in S.America - this being a key growth market for many companies.

Would you hire a guy that might blackmail you if you don't accept his Nr.1 status, or a guy that will go to the FIA, or a guy that will complaint about everything your team does, and that cannot even beat his rookie teammate just because he is fast, gets you publicity and will bring you some Spaniard and S.A. fans? (BTW, here in Southamerica, at least in Argentina, Ferrari is still the team with the biggest fan base followed by McLaren. People follows teams more than drivers. Alonso's fanbase wouldn't be big enough to fill a phone booth.)

[Fed up 0]

You'll note I said "Hardly". How many other offs has he had???, and that is answer is the reason IMO as to why he is sought after. Just remember, his "horrible" season, and "poor" driving ended him up equal in points with Hamiliton. You give Alonso the full support of a top team and he will still win championships.

As I stated before, Ron Dennis mismanaged this driver arrangement, and caused Mclaren a huge amount of pain. Fully supporting Alonso would have won the WDC and LH would would be remembered for his great rookie drive, not "how could he lose it with two races to go". Both drivers get screwed, Mclaren gets screwed, and who knows what their driver line up is going to look like for next year. All we know is they have a talented sophomore, and that is about it.

Nando had quite a few offs in the season just gone -

I accept that Nando would have won the WDC easily had he been given preferential treatment - Lewis, however, is a very shrewd character and managed to out fox the emotional Nando -

The Ferrari drivers were just as evenly matched, but somehow you always knew that Kimi would emerge as the favoured driver. The Ferrari drivers never whinged or bitched all season. While Nando & Lewis were pressing the self destruct button the Ferrari drivers just got on with the task in hand. You could argue that Kimi/Massa had more to complain about, especially after the spygate saga managed to disqualify the team while leaving the Mclaren drivers free to drive.

[AleHop 0]

Alonso will stay with Mclaren.

Oximoron who?

[zdzisio 0]

Would you hire a guy that might blackmail you if you don't accept his Nr.1 status, or a guy that will go to the FIA,

making decisions, whether to hire a driver or not , based on an impression if the guy is decent and *surely* will not use blackmail,

would not make a person very good F1 Team Principal .

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Oximoron who?

read the articles, even Alonso himself expected to stay at Mclaren, such a suprise it was he got sacked. So who's the oxymoron?

[AleHop 0]

read the articles, even Alonso himself expected to stay at Mclaren, such a suprise it was he got sacked. So who's the oxymoron?

Maybe you?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63770

More?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63741

Even more?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63742

And...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63748

Oh, actually, Alonso wanted to leave

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Maybe you?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63770

More?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63741

Even more?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63742

And...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63748

Oh, actually, Alonso wanted to leave

so you agree HE WAS effectively fired, by mutual consent, because the relationships were too intolerant???

[KoolMonkey 0]

It's a bit hypocritical of RD to fire Alonso for disharmony. Lewis did blatantly ignore a team order in Hungary. He also due to not shutting his yapper, caused the Monaco situation to unfold. Then Lewis blabs on about how he's a team player and Alonso isn't. Sure Alonso created problems too, but had they treated him better a lot of the drama never would have occurred. Oh, and they didn't fire PDR either. So if Alonso was a part of the spy scandal, PDR was as well.

McLaren demonstrated maybe the worst management of a team and drivers I've seen in F1. No one believes the equality crap Ron kept preaching to anyone that would listen. DC himself said Ron always favored one driver over the other. Just look at how they treated Montoya. There's a pattern here.

[AleHop 0]

so you agree HE WAS effectively fired, by mutual consent, because the relationships were too intolerant???

No, Alonso did NOT want to stay and McLaren only wanted him to stay if he accepted their rules... But he knew their rules already, he knew the equality he would get one year more and did not want to work for them. Ron&Norbert did not want a war from race one so the most intelligent decission they could make was the one they made. Ron is not so stupid after all, and now he is expecting his boy to earn WDC.

Fernando Alonso is now extremely happy even though he knows he is leaving the best 2007 car. But for what he has said privately he was sure he would not be allowed to work freely and happily. It is all over for McLaren-Alonso relationship and you know they did NOT sack him because if they had sack him they would have have to pay him FULL contract.

You still can keep talking BULLSH

[BradSpeedMan 6]

No, Alonso did NOT want to stay and McLaren only wanted him to stay if he accepted their rules... But he knew their rules already, he knew the equality he would get one year more and did not want to work for them. Ron&Norbert did not want a war from race one so the most intelligent decission they could make was the one they made. Ron is not so stupid after all, and now he is expecting his boy to earn WDC.

Fernando Alonso is now extremely happy even though he knows he is leaving the best 2007 car. But for what he has said privately he was sure he would not be allowed to work freely and happily. It is all over for McLaren-Alonso relationship and you know they did NOT sack him because if they had sack him they would have have to pay him FULL contract.

You still can keep talking BULLSH

[Max Mosley 2]

I said more or less the same that Mike said on his post. Let me ellaborate it just a little bit more.

Why would any team want to hire a guy that, even if we admit he is consistent and brongs some sponsorship money and a lot of spanish fans, can cause the mess everybody seems to think he caused by himself at McLaren.

Would you hire a blackmailing, whinning arrogant cheater b#####d just for Telefonica's sponsorship money? Or just to get a bunch of Spaniards fan base? Is it worth it? Or maybe his attitude problems (I don't deny he has them) are not that bad as we were told?

Maybe the teams know something we don't know?

I suspect the teams in question are basically happy to give Nando what he wants - emotional support and preferential treatment from the team - and they know from his Renault days how well he works when he's given it. Toyota, Red Bull, Renault, Williams will all surely accede to his demands, given his status and quality (and sponsorship ). About the qualities in bold that you mention, being an arrogant cheater is a good thing in F1 - every team wants one! (Though he will have to learn not to get caught, like Lewis! ) Most of his attitude problems come from wanting to beat his team mate, which is no bad thing, and ordinarily wouldn't cause any problems (because he will). The blackmailing and whining will hopefully go away (if they really happened) when he's in a team he likes.

[Rainmaster 7]

I've been reading some people here saying that they think Alonso is valuable. Those people are not surprised that a slew of team are throwing money at him to land him. My question is this: If, as is widely believed, the driver isn't a great factor in producing a winning car...and a driver doesn't contribute more than keeping the rubber thingies on the asphalt, why is everybody trying to land Fernando?

What qualities make him more valuable than the teams' current drivers?

Because the driver does affect the car, but not by half a second, if a car is going to be quick it's going to be quick, then the driver refines it. Qualities where Alonso excells:

Racecraft - overtaking, defending, when to be aggressive, when not to be.

Speed & consistancy - in races and the whole championship.

Development skills - gives good feedback and has good feel for the car.

Pressure - can stand the heat, although not as well when from his own team-mate.

So basically he's a known quantity who can deliver a title.

Fernando can't go to Red Bull. He's too young to drink Red Bull...he's barely been weened off of Flavio's breast milk.

Thanks for that image , yuck.

I am easy to identify from the rest. I am the bald one.

What I meant with my previous post was: if he is the monster everybody says he is, why are all the teams fighting over to get such a troublemaker? Maybe the official version of the fatcs wasn't so accurate? Maybe he is not such a monster after all? If the official version was true, I could understand Renault making their bid, they must think they could control him in the past and they will control him now. I could understand to a lesser extent Red Bull, perhaps they would be willing to accept every little demand from Nando just to have a 2 times WDC in their team. But that still would not explain why a Williams, a BMW, a Toyota or others with more experience and less needy would be so willing to get a pilot that will tear them apart like he suposedly did at McLaren. Unless they know he is not that bad and uncontrollable as we were told.

My english is barely good enough to participate in this forum. Regretfuly, I have a certain tendency to ramble too much and my posts are usually confusing, which doesn't help.

No, Alonso isn't a monster like some believe, he was just a bit of a naughty boy this year due to his circumstances, chances are his circumstances will be much better in terms of equality (he will have No.1 status) next year, so he won't be complaining to the press - I imagine the teams have realised that and will have also realised by now that he is rather good as well. Then of course there is sponsorship, fans and a guy who can deliver a title. The teams don't hire on personality basically.

First, your english is absolutely fine. Many should wish they had your level of fluency on any language (including their own mother tongue).

You are correct, the "official" version is a fraud and, in my opinion, it is designed by RD and lewisterics to cover their own behinds. That enough should be a clue.

The cool heads around here understand and tell without shame that drivers in F1 (Kimi, Alonso, Massa, even unproven ones such as Hamilton or Vettel) are formidably skilled.

Alonso's move is of interest precisesly because of this. In all likelyhood, he will land in a middle team and that is good for me, at least. Not only becuase it means that Kimi will have a 2nd WC in the bag but because Alonso will have to fight through the field. I am looking forward to that, very much.

The whole hysteria is not an issue for Business F1. It is McLaren the one in trouble. It is RD who has fcked up. Alonso doesn't have to prove anything, really. They do.

It'll be nice to see Alonso racing some supposedly lesser drivers, let's see how he gets on. It'll also be nice to see kimi beating them all.

[Jean Todt 4]

so you agree HE WAS effectively fired, by mutual consent, because the relationships were too intolerant???

That was harsh Brad!

[Quiet One 15]

George, MW, that is more or less what I believe (except for your support for cheating, Muzza )

As much as I would like to see Alonso back at Renault, it will be good to see him in any team. Yes, even Toyota. He already showed his skills at Renault, McLaren and even Minardi. JV was great at Williams Renault and sucked since (no matter the reasons, now). JPM had mixed success at Williams and McLaren. The more teams a driver goes to, the better we can assess his highs and lows.

Alonso has many attitude problems. Nobody (I think) denies it. I just emphasize the fact that he is being sought by so many teams to put his attitude problems in a better perspective.

[maure 1]

It's a bit hypocritical of RD to fire Alonso for disharmony. Lewis did blatantly ignore a team order in Hungary. He also due to not shutting his yapper, caused the Monaco situation to unfold. Then Lewis blabs on about how he's a team player and Alonso isn't. Sure Alonso created problems too, but had they treated him better a lot of the drama never would have occurred. Oh, and they didn't fire PDR either. So if Alonso was a part of the spy scandal, PDR was as well.

McLaren demonstrated maybe the worst management of a team and drivers I've seen in F1. No one believes the equality crap Ron kept preaching to anyone that would listen. DC himself said Ron always favored one driver over the other. Just look at how they treated Montoya. There's a pattern here.

In-frigging-deed.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

That was harsh Brad!

hey, thats what the dudes at Planetf1 reckons... aint no trusting them folks anymore

[elgo 1]

Surprisingly, I will be the one defending the B-man this time

Yes, he is a biased anti Nando guy. But he is OUR biased anti Nando guy. And, despite, being in opposite fields on F1, he is a nice person and we get along quite well.

Don't worry, we will still have the last laugh! And, if you like, we will not go to Southafrica and bring him his wine gummies (bear gummies, actually)

I'm not surprised at all that you defended him.

You're part of the "TF1 selected group",a nice group of friends that make us enjoy these forums and make them special,but on the other hand I feel that we can't "attack" those members' posts. People tends to attack new members more than "senior members",because if you do the second one,his friends will defend him no matter what he says,as it has happened to me.Oh,Andres,and don't feel offended,but as you're the only FA supporter in this group, I've sometimes felt that you're the one that ends up agreeing with what the rest says.

Also about the FA/Hamilton/McLaren/Ferrari topic.

I feel,as maure has said,that there's a sort of "creed" here.I feel there are some ideas(a lot of them generated by the English media in my opinion,but that's another story) that are only one side of the story,and if you don't agree on them you'll get a lot of negative replies,while there are a lot of irrational posts that are based on FA insulting that get a general acceptance,and if someone critizises them,the general crowd will shout at him.

Yep, there is a neurotic need for agreement in the forums and, yep, those that step outside of the accepted "creed" are often insulted.

I'm sorry if I offended someone,and I might regret to post this,but it's what I think.Just my views on the forums atm,and the blogs would be a more suitable place for it,but I don't have one and I'm going to click on the "add reply" button

[Rainmaster 7]

I'm not surprised at all that you defended him.

You're part of the "TF1 selected group",a nice group of friends that make us enjoy these forums and make them special,but on the other hand I feel that we can't "attack" those members' posts. People tends to attack new members more than "senior members",because if you do the second one,his friends will defend him no matter what he says,as it has happened to me.Oh,Andres,and don't feel offended,but as you're the only FA supporter in this group, I've sometimes felt that you're the one that ends up agreeing with what the rest says.

Also about the FA/Hamilton/McLaren/Ferrari topic.

I feel,as maure has said,that there's a sort of "creed" here.I feel there are some ideas(a lot of them generated by the English media in my opinion,but that's another story) that are only one side of the story,and if you don't agree on them you'll get a lot of negative replies,while there are a lot of irrational posts that are based on FA insulting that get a general acceptance,and if someone critizises them,the general crowd will shout at him.

I'm sorry if I offended someone,and I might regret to post this,but it's what I think.Just my views on the forums atm,and the blogs would be a more suitable place for it,but I don't have one and I'm going to click on the "add reply" button

Oh shut up elgo! I suppose I have to state I'm joking for some of our less perceptive members (I'm looking at you Eric).

You have a good point.