FUschumi

Another Ridiculous Move By Fia In Favour Of Ferrari.

65 posts in this topic

I wonder why FIA is looking over McLaren, lets look at past history FUSchumi and Christiano.

1. Prost used to comment about how all the Honda mechanics and McLaren mechanics were around Senna's car, while Prost only had three to four people around his car.

2. Jerez 1997 with DC having to pull over to let Hakkinen through.

3. Melbourne 1998 with DC having to pull over for Hakkinen again.

Equality at McLaren? I think not.

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Putting all the fan-stuff and politics to one side for a mo - one of the things that occurred to me is how the scrutineer is actually going to make a judgment. e.g. it is not uncommon for teams to have team-mates on a different fuel/tyre strategy, to have different car setups or in the course of the race, to make decisions based upon the racing at that point in time.

Now unless the cars, fuel-loads and strategy are identical (which would be impossible in practice), there is inevitably going to be a difference between the cars which favour one or other of the drivers.

So how can the FIA make a judgment if Alonso has been treated fairly/equally in a situation, say where they go out on different compound tyres and for example one compound favours Hamilton? Would they judge this as unfair treatment? What measures do they use? Or are McLaren going to have use identical setups and strategies (within reason)? How does the FIA set a benchmark on what is fair? How can it be measured?

Again ignoring the tired old arguments about Alonso v. Hamilton, is it fair? etc my own feeling from a sporting perspective is that this is a dangerous precedent as it will inevitably force McLaren to play it safe (probably more so than they would normally) and this may put them at a competitive disadvantage to Ferrari/BMW who have free rein to adopt any strategies they wish (even if it means being unfair to their second driver). If I were one of the other teams, in fact I would put the drivers on vastly different strategies as this could give opportunities to take advantage of McLaren's necessary caution. The overall effect, whilst fair to both McLaren drivers could mean less competitive racing and more risk of FIA seizing on a perceived advantage to Hamilton which could screw up the end results. I am not particularly a fan of either driver or Ferrari, but just dismayed that the FIA are tinkering and this tinkering could have a negative effect.

Yeah good point, how will they make that judgment? Are they in the best position to know? Martin Brundle was questioning their knowledge when making decisions in wet races, how they had no actual drivers in the FIA, so had no experience of the conditions - so weren't in the best position to make a judgment.

It is similar here, I think.

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Yep, that article covers the facets of the issue quite well.

But can't a contract be mutually terminated??

Also if Alonso agrees to drive but every race purposely crashes the car, then what will Mclaren do???

Great news for thoses Ferrari haters, I guess that form now on they will wait before posting the first thought that come to their minds.

No they won't, have both ever thought of the dumbness both keep posting???

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But can't a contract be mutually terminated??

Also if Alonso agrees to drive but every race purposely crashes the car, then what will Mclaren do???

But will Mclaren agree to it?

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But will Mclaren agree to it?

Read the first part of my reply, he willingly goes and starts crashing the cars, mclaren will have a greater loss, and then the pressure from the FIA to insure they both get equal machinery

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It will be that same steward that penalized Alonso at Hungary and let Hamilton get away with it at Japan.

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Read the first part of my reply, he willingly goes and starts crashing the cars, mclaren will have a greater loss, and then the pressure from the FIA to insure they both get equal machinery

There's probably something in his contract that says Mclaren can bench him if he does that.

Edited by rainmaster

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There's probably something in his contract tha says Mclaren can bench him if he does that.

Actually could be treated as gross misconduct (malicious damage to company property) so he could probably get kicked out anyway if there was evidence he had willfully done something.

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There's probably something in his contract tha says Mclaren can bench him if he does that.

When framing a contract do you really think your partner is going to screw around with the company...

Actually could be treated as gross misconduct (malicious damage to company property) so he could probably get kicked out anyway if there was evidence he had willfully done something.

But that is exactly what he would want....

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But that is exactly what he would want....

True, but then he lost any advantage that he might have and McLaren hold the strings in terms of whether he stays or goes. At the moment, he may have a clause in his contract saying that if McLaren are caught cheating, he can quit, etc. If he crashed cars on purpose and they could prove misconduct, this would override that to a degree, although it would get him out it would be more on McLaren's terms. It would also open him to criminal charges and that would not be so good for him.

If I were RD I would sit him out of the driving seat for a year - keeps him out of of the way, he's not competition, puts him behind on new developments, etc.

I think the path forward depends more on how the sponsorship deals would be affected..... that is almost certainly the primary consideration for all concerned (Alonso would want to take sponsors with him, RD would want to keep them, the sponsors may be unsure as there are plusses and minuses both for staying and leaving).

...or RD could always make him a McLaren Goodwill Ambassador :):):)

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True, but then he lost any advantage that he might have and McLaren hold the strings in terms of whether he stays or goes. At the moment, he may have a clause in his contract saying that if McLaren are caught cheating, he can quit, etc. If he crashed cars on purpose and they could prove misconduct, this would override that to a degree, although it would get him out it would be more on McLaren's terms. It would also open him to criminal charges and that would not be so good for him.

If I were RD I would sit him out of the driving seat for a year - keeps him out of of the way, he's not competition, puts him behind on new developments, etc.

I think the path forward depends more on how the sponsorship deals would be affected..... that is almost certainly the primary consideration for all concerned (Alonso would want to take sponsors with him, RD would want to keep them, the sponsors may be unsure as there are plusses and minuses both for staying and leaving).

...or RD could always make him a McLaren Goodwill Ambassador :):):)

Criminal charges can only be put if he does it purposly, but you can always say the brakes failed, the car slipped, you can see, not saying he should but it is possible...

I would like to have him benched for sure, but not very likely as sponsers would threaten Mclaren to make him drive.... It would be in the best interests of both to let Alonso leave Mclaren...

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Read the first part of my reply, he willingly goes and starts crashing the cars, mclaren will have a greater loss, and then the pressure from the FIA to insure they both get equal machinery

I read it but if he purposely did that then there would be consequences with the FIA and Mclaren.

Criminal charges can only be put if he does it purposly, but you can always say the brakes failed, the car slipped, you can see, not saying he should but it is possible...

I would like to have him benched for sure, but not very likely as sponsers would threaten Mclaren to make him drive.... It would be in the best interests of both to let Alonso leave Mclaren...

With the advanced technology (telemetry) they have now, I don't think it would be difficult to prove it was intentional, Alonso couldn't gain from doing this - not with anyone.

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I read it but if he purposely did that then there would be consequences with the FIA and Mclaren.

With the advanced technology (telemetry) they have now, I don't think it would be difficult to prove it was intentional, Alonso couldn't gain from doing this - not with anyone.

Ok how about not going as fast as you can?? like Fisi...

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Ok how about not going as fast as you can?? like Fisi...

That explains Ralf as well.

Actually I think that would be a better idea, harder to punish.

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That explains Ralf as well.

Actually I think that would be a better idea, harder to punish.

Yup but would be very demoralizing and his reputation would go...(whatever bits he has)

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Yup but would be very demoralizing and his reputation would go...(whatever bits he has)

Yup, effective though, and less dangerous.

I take back my comment about Ralf, he is actually driving on his limit, he's just that slow.

Edited by rainmaster

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Yup, effective though, and less dangerous.

I take back my comment about Ralf, he is actually driving on his limit, he's just that slow.

Ralf did in the last race show his potiental i believe....

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Ralf did in the last race show his potiental i believe....

You are correct, but one good race, a racer does not make. Perhaps Ralfy should of driven like that before he got the sack, sorry, *left of his own choice*.

You can't contract on potential, especially with someone experienced.

Edited by rainmaster

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You are correct, but one good race, a racer does not make. Perhaps Ralfy should of driven like that before he got the sack, sorry, *left of his own choice*.

You can't contract on potential, especially with someone experienced.

Yeah you can't, he needed to prove his results some more, But i guess getting such a hefty paycheck for doing what you want would slacken you, and thus when he knew he is leaving Toyota decided to show how good he is...

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I think there would be many clauses in Alonso's contract that are unkown to the public, so it is a bit hard to say what will happen.

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Putting all the fan-stuff and politics to one side for a mo - one of the things that occurred to me is how the scrutineer is actually going to make a judgment. e.g. it is not uncommon for teams to have team-mates on a different fuel/tyre strategy, to have different car setups or in the course of the race, to make decisions based upon the racing at that point in time.

Now unless the cars, fuel-loads and strategy are identical (which would be impossible in practice), there is inevitably going to be a difference between the cars which favour one or other of the drivers.

So how can the FIA make a judgment if Alonso has been treated fairly/equally in a situation, say where they go out on different compound tyres and for example one compound favours Hamilton? Would they judge this as unfair treatment? What measures do they use? Or are McLaren going to have use identical setups and strategies (within reason)? How does the FIA set a benchmark on what is fair? How can it be measured?

Again ignoring the tired old arguments about Alonso v. Hamilton, is it fair? etc my own feeling from a sporting perspective is that this is a dangerous precedent as it will inevitably force McLaren to play it safe (probably more so than they would normally) and this may put them at a competitive disadvantage to Ferrari/BMW who have free rein to adopt any strategies they wish (even if it means being unfair to their second driver). If I were one of the other teams, in fact I would put the drivers on vastly different strategies as this could give opportunities to take advantage of McLaren's necessary caution. The overall effect, whilst fair to both McLaren drivers could mean less competitive racing and more risk of FIA seizing on a perceived advantage to Hamilton which could screw up the end results. I am not particularly a fan of either driver or Ferrari, but just dismayed that the FIA are tinkering and this tinkering could have a negative effect.

The most/only sensible reply without personal attack. Thanks for your sincerity. :thbup:

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The most/only sensible reply without personal attack. Thanks for your sincerity. :thbup:

until he/she gets used to your stupid postings!!!!

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Sensible suggestion/comments from past champions.

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller....p;news_id=28385

At least they see things from fairness perspective.

sensible??? comments from a certified halfwit (seems to be within YOUR catogory)... consider the full story, the why's and when, not some opioniated ramblings from an old man who looks something like the pink panther's Inspector Cloussou who's been years out of F1.

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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