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YHR

2007 In Reflection

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Well I have been very vocal against the FIA this year as I think they are doing a horrible job of managing the rules that govern this sport.

However the one glaring ruling that I just can not accept, was the 5 spot grind penalty given out to Alonso for the pit box altercation between the Mclaren team. Regardless of what happens tomorrow this one ruling effectively leap frogged Hamilton ahead of Alonso in this very close battle. I know by the letter of the law and the way that rule is worded, that they had the right to do what they did. Please don't get into it with me over that.

In my opinion this stewards decison was far too harsh and has tainted this great championship run for me.

Of course then there is the Spy scandal. This was another overly harsh penalty handed out to Mclaren. All the rest of the BS has been just that, a bunch of useless crap this sport doesn't need.

The FIA needs to take discretion out of the rules. It opens up too much controvesy and suspicion in my opinion. Some programmer needs to come up with an Algorithm to hand out these penalities. You feed the data in and the ruling is spit out with no human influence, real or implied.

Really you just need to set an numurical value to each infraction, and then a number for the result of that infraction. A racing commision of professionals can debate and decide on these values. Once decided you run each infraction through the equation to spit out a fair penalty.

Gone is all this BS over bias rulings, which has really damged the sport this year.

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Well. Ferrari is taking Hamilton to task on his disruption of KR's fast lap, saying that it impeded the Finns lap time. I watched this happen and I thought it did as well. This is kind of a qualifying impedance that they Hit Alonso with the 5 grid positons for. And this was for not even affecting a timed lap, and has no impact on the other teams. You would think actually getting in the way of a competitior flying lap would warrant a stiffer penalty wouldn't you???

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You were a fool with you opinions on JV and you have returned a fool with your comments on Lewis.

Get over yourself and move on

<_<

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You were a fool with you opinions on JV and you have returned a fool with your comments on Lewis.

Get over yourself and move on

<_<

Thanks for your intelligent comments. One post and you are already name calling. The facts are coming to light.

One thing this fool has never done is call anyone names on this public board. I find it offensive and unbecoming, but hey that is just me.

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You were a fool with you opinions on JV and you have returned a fool with your comments on Lewis.

Get over yourself and move on

<_<

Let the race get over <_<

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Thanks for your intelligent comments. One post and you are already name calling. The facts are coming to light.

One thing this fool has never done is call anyone names on this public board. I find it offensive and unbecoming, but hey that is just me.

I'm sorry mate but you really get on my nerves with your constant negativity first against Michael and now against Lewis - Both are very talented drivers yet you always seem to find the negative where most see positive.

The performance of Lewis in 2007 has been nothing short of exceptional yet fools like you continue to harp on about Hungary or whatever - How negative is it for you to constantly want a driver sanctioned for all manner of things.

I note you are alone in this stupid thread. Carry on

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I'm sorry mate but you really get on my nerves with your constant negativity first against Michael and now against Lewis - Both are very talented drivers yet you always seem to find the negative where most see positive.

The performance of Lewis in 2007 has been nothing short of exceptional yet fools like you continue to harp on about Hungary or whatever - How negative is it for you to constantly want a driver sanctioned for all manner of things.

I note you are alone in this stupid thread. Carry on

MS is retired, JV is retired. Old news not worth talking about. I think this thread timing is perfect. Hamiliton impeded KR's flying lap. THe same rule needs to be looked up that penalized Alonso in Hungary. What is the ruling going to be.??????

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Well I have been very vocal against the FIA this year as I think they are doing a horrible job of managing the rules that govern this sport.

However the one glaring ruling that I just can not accept, was the 5 spot grind penalty given out to Alonso for the pit box altercation between the Mclaren team. Regardless of what happens tomorrow this one ruling effectively leap frogged Hamilton ahead of Alonso in this very close battle. I know by the letter of the law and the way that rule is worded, that they had the right to do what they did. Please don't get into it with me over that.

In my opinion this stewards decison was far too harsh and has tainted this great championship run for me.

Of course then there is the Spy scandal. This was another overly harsh penalty handed out to Mclaren. All the rest of the BS has been just that, a bunch of useless crap this sport doesn't need.

The FIA needs to take discretion out of the rules. It opens up too much controvesy and suspicion in my opinion. Some programmer needs to come up with an Algorithm to hand out these penalities. You feed the data in and the ruling is spit out with no human influence, real or implied.

Really you just need to set an numurical value to each infraction, and then a number for the result of that infraction. A racing commision of professionals can debate and decide on these values. Once decided you run each infraction through the equation to spit out a fair penalty.

Gone is all this BS over bias rulings, which has really damged the sport this year.

I want bad rulings gone too, just because that would mean no more bad threads. Is this '2007 in reflection'? If so, then how come no mention of any other drivers or teams? Where is the talk of Sutil, Kova, and some of their performances, or some team-mate comparisons, or mention of Honda's regression? The only thing this thread mentions is how Hamilton deserves a penalty. This isn't '2007 in Reflecion' - it's just one more pointless Hamilton bashing thread, to add to the already suffocating pile.

Alonso was given a penalty, boo-hoo, no matter how much everyone talks about it, it ain't gonna change. Lets move on, shall we?

A numerical system wouldn't be best, sometimes the marshals/FIA need to consider circumstances, and this affects the (decision to give/harshness) of the penalty.

Edited for clarity.

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I'm sorry mate but you really get on my nerves with your constant negativity first against Michael and now against Lewis - Both are very talented drivers yet you always seem to find the negative where most see positive.

The performance of Lewis in 2007 has been nothing short of exceptional yet fools like you continue to harp on about Hungary or whatever - How negative is it for you to constantly want a driver sanctioned for all manner of things.

I note you are alone in this stupid thread. Carry on

lrt the race get over! <_<

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I want bad rulings gone too, just because that would mean no more bad threads. Is this '2007 in reflection'? If so, then how come no mention of any other drivers or teams? Where is the talk of Sutil, Kova, and some of their performances, or some team-mate comparisons, or mention of Honda's regression? The only thing this thread mentions is how Hamilton deserves a penalty. This isn't '2007 in Reflecion' - it's just one more pointless Hamilton bashing thread, to add to the already suffocating pile.

Alonso was given a penalty, (3)boo-hoo, no matter how much everyone talks about it, it ain't gonna change. Lets move on, shall we?

(4)A numerical system wouldn't be best, sometimes the marshals/FIA need to consider circumstances, and this affects the (decision to give/harshness) of the penalty.

Edited for clarity.

Thank you for the intelligent reply.

First let me clarify the assumptions you made.

1. The orignal post did nothing to call for a penalty against Hamilton. It basically gave my opinion on the one single thing that has distracted from this years championship run. I think that is a fair thing to state. The application of the rules is the single biggest story this year and it has detracted from all of the things you mentioned. If the FIA was competent we would be discussing the very things you mentioned. Therefore the root cause of the racing things not being discussed is the FIA incompetence.

2. Because I want fair and just punishment for all, how does this make me a Hamiliton basher?. Because all of these rulings I am bitching about favor Hamiliton is just a coincidence , right? Therefore you are labeling me a Hamilton basher, and yet I have never once said anything bad about Hamilton, only the rules that are being applied around him. Hamilton is a great talent and deserves to win this title in a well run organization. I also think Alonso is a great talent. These guys should be able to compete on a level playing field.

(3) confrontational?? Not sure why. I guess you don't understand the points I am trying to make. The depth of my statements is getting lost. For many its is all a us against them thing. I just like fair racing.

(4) It is amazing what a good alogrithm can do. Fair without human weakness or any kind of favortism.

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Over the course of a 17 race season these things tend to even themselves out, so the driver who is at the top of the standings is, by all intents and purposes, the best driver of the year period!

If you were to look at the season in a balanced way, the FIA have done their level best to disrupt the Mclaren team throughout the season - The fact that the Ferrari drivers have not been able to take advantage of the obvious FIA bias is not LH or FA's fault - they have both performed inspite of the FIA's meddling.

Lewis has been cast as the villain of the peace in every conceivable instance;

- It is Lewis's fault that he managed to keep his engine running to take advantage of the crane incident

- It is his fault that his tyre shredded in Turkey when comfortably ahead of his team mate

- it is his fault that his team chose to delay his pitstop in China

- It is his fault that he managed 9 consecutive podiums in his first season in F1

- it is his fault that he has been as quick as nando

I could go on forever, but one thing he hasn't done is bitch about the past - he dusts himself down and looks forward to the next race with vigor and a smile. He has not once slated his team or disrespected his fellow drivers - He is not too big to admit that he has been wrong and will be the first to apologise.

Why people slate the guy baffles me - All I see in Lewis is a young man that has a God given talent to drive a car fast and he is a very well mannered individual -

Whoever wins the WDC will have deserved it, but for me, Lewis has been the best thing to happen to F1 since the retirement of Michael.

<_<

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Over the course of a 17 race season these things tend to even themselves out, so the driver who is at the top of the standings is, by all intents and purposes, the best driver of the year period!

If you were to look at the season in a balanced way, the FIA have done their level best to disrupt the Mclaren team throughout the season - The fact that the Ferrari drivers have not been able to take advantage of the obvious FIA bias is not LH or FA's fault - they have both performed inspite of the FIA's meddling.

Lewis has been cast as the villain of the peace in every conceivable instance;

- It is Lewis's fault that he managed to keep his engine running to take advantage of the crane incident

- It is his fault that his tyre shredded in Turkey when comfortably ahead of his team mate

- it is his fault that his team chose to delay his pitstop in China

- It is his fault that he managed 9 consecutive podiums in his first season in F1

- it is his fault that he has been as quick as nando

I could go on forever, but one thing he hasn't done is bitch about the past - he dusts himself down and looks forward to the next race with vigor and a smile. He has not once slated his team or disrespected his fellow drivers - He is not too big to admit that he has been wrong and will be the first to apologise.

Why people slate the guy baffles me - All I see in Lewis is a young man that has a God given talent to drive a car fast and he is a very well mannered individual -

Whoever wins the WDC will have deserved it, but for me, Lewis has been the best thing to happen to F1 since the retirement of Michael.

<_<

I agree, so why call me a fool because I think the FIA is making a mockery of this season. IS it just because these ruling have benefitted Hamilton???. I don't think you are being very fair. As a matter of fact you will not find me slagging Lewis Hamilton anywhere. These rulings could be going toward Alonso and it would make no difference to me. I would still be on about the inconsistency of the ruling and penalites.

I suggest you look at your own fanaticism about any particulair individual in this sport, before you go around labeling people fools. I think you may have let your emotions get ahead of your brain, and your own bias tilt your judgement on my issues with this sport.

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However the one glaring ruling that I just can not accept, was the 5 spot grind penalty given out to Alonso for the pit box altercation between the Mclaren team. Regardless of what happens tomorrow this one ruling effectively leap frogged Hamilton ahead of Alonso in this very close battle. I know by the letter of the law and the way that rule is worded, that they had the right to do what they did. Please don't get into it with me over that.

In my opinion this stewards decison was far too harsh and has tainted this great championship run for me.

I think when you have drivers parking on the track (or in the shared pits) to block a rival live on TV, it does bring the sport into disrepute and most people who watched live thought that at the time. My view on "cheating" is rather different to yours, but if you are going to punish people like Schumacher for blocking Alonso in Monaco, you have to penalise Alonso on Hamilton. The fact that he did it in his own pit box is irrelevant. The fact that he might have been in a strop because Hamilton pulled a fast one is irrelevant. The recent Hamilton-Kimi incident is very different and can't be compared, for example Hamilton didn't actually get in his direct way.

Of course then there is the Spy scandal. This was another overly harsh penalty handed out to Mclaren.

Yes. But only because everyone does very similar things.

The FIA needs to take discretion out of the rules. It opens up too much controvesy and suspicion in my opinion. Some programmer needs to come up with an Algorithm to hand out these penalities. You feed the data in and the ruling is spit out with no human influence, real or implied.

Really you just need to set an numurical value to each infraction, and then a number for the result of that infraction. A racing commision of professionals can debate and decide on these values. Once decided you run each infraction through the equation to spit out a fair penalty.

Gone is all this BS over bias rulings, which has really damged the sport this year.

I disagree. Discretion is important. When you penalise someone you have to take so many factors into account it's impossible to eliminate judgment. To argue otherwise is like saying we should forget about trial by judge and jury, and have trial by computer instead.

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For me.....

If someone asked what stood out the most this season, I'd have to say the FIA. Too bad to.

Alot of potential to have been the greatest season ever.

Here we are three pilots racing for the title (awesome): Kimi finally getting a real chance to win

Alonso going for his third,

and what can you say about LH

Yet for me it will all be eclipsed by the FIA's involvement.

Regardless of their decisions being right or wrong. The FIA has turned out to be the most predominant memory of 2007.

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Thank you for the intelligent reply.

First let me clarify the assumptions you made.

1. The original post did nothing to call for a penalty against Hamilton. It basically gave my opinion on the one single thing that has distracted from this years championship run. I think that is a fair thing to state. The application of the rules is the single biggest story this year and it has detracted from all of the things you mentioned. If the FIA was competent we would be discussing the very things you mentioned. Therefor the root cause of the racing things not being discussed is the FIA incompetence.

Well I disagree. I think you could of mentioned all of these things but chose not to, the title of this thread is misleading, you don't even give a summary of the season or anything and the reason you give for not doing so is poor (in my opinion), but I will forgive you this one time :P . I propose that a better title would of been, 'the FIA are incompetent' or something similar. If a newcomer (to the sport) read your opening post they would learn nothing of the season, so therefore this thread is, technically (due to the title) constantly off-topic, you get my drift?

BTW, you can't actually reflect on something until it has ended, so this thread should at least be called 'Most of 2007 in Reflection'. :P

2. Because I want fair and just punishment for all, how does this make me a Hamiliton basher?. Because all of this rulings I am bitching about favour Hamiliton is just a coincidence , right? Therefore you are labelling me a Hamilton basher, and yet I have never once said anything bad about Hamilton, only the rules that are being applied around him. Hamilton is a great talent and deserves to win this title in a well run organization. I also think Alonso is a great talent. These guys should be able to compete on a level playing field.

I just sense negativity in your posts, it is slightly strange to start a thread which basically infers that Alonso should/would be ahead, right before the final race of the season (where Hamilton may win the title) - you understand how that might be interpreted as negative towards Hamilton? There is subtle negativity in some of your statements. Yes, the battle is close, Alonso has made more mistakes however, and it has been costly. Not sure why you think one (quite minor) penalty taints a whole championship (again this devalues Hamilton's efforts if he does win).

(3) confrontational?? Not sure why. I guess you don't understand the points I am trying to make. The depth of my statements is getting lost. For many its is all a us against them thing. I just like fair racing.

No I wasn't being confrontational, unlike you with your opening line 'Thank you for the intelligent reply'. The 'boo-hoo' wasn't really a direct response to you anyway, more of a general thing. I suppose that's interpretation, and everybody's is different.

I was saying that I feel there is little point in discussing Alonso's penalty any further, it's old news now and no doubt it has already been debated. Also I don't like the idea that this penalty helped Hamilton win the title (or gain the upper hand), Alonso was responsible for his actions that Saturday afternoon and his actions were stupid (as were Hamilton's). I disagree with the penalty, although I can understand why Alonso got it, and why Hamilton didn't get one. One action was concealed within the team, another was very public (one was team rule, the other an actual regulation). Although no doubt some people believe this is an example of FIA favouritism, interpretation again.

'The depth of my statements is getting lost' - give me a break, your statements are about as deep as Honda's understanding of aerodynamics. Now that, was confrontational.

(4) It is amazing what a good algorithm can do. Fair without human weakness or any kind of favouritism.

A computer can only operate within set parameters, it cannot judge, in my opinion it would be a poor solution.

To conclude, yes I agree with you, the FIA are inconsistant & incompetent. This has affected this year's championship in a negative way. Let's discuss it some more and see if it changes anything :D .

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I felt sorry for YHR in the other thread and said I wouldn't get involved into one of these arguments, but this time I think it calls for a minor, yet vital correction.

Maybe YHR can explain himself better than I can, but from my point of view he wasn't being confrontational with his "Thank you for the inteligent reply".

He actually meant it, IMAO.

Of course, if it turns out that he didn't mean it that way, I will yoddel the Finn Anthem dressed like a nun as a punishment.

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Perhaps Andres, it is all in interpretation, I thought it was confrontational because I usually post a load of dumb Sh#t anyway.

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Perhaps Andres, it is all in interpretation, I thought it was confrontational because I usually post a load of dumb Sh#t anyway.

Me too. That's what forums are for, right? :unsure:

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I felt sorry for YHR in the other thread and said I wouldn't get involved into one of these arguments, but this time I think it calls for a minor, yet vital correction.

Maybe YHR can explain himself better than I can, but from my point of view he wasn't being confrontational with his "Thank you for the inteligent reply".

He actually meant it, IMAO.

Of course, if it turns out that he didn't mean it that way, I will yoddel the Finn Anthem dressed like a nun as a punishment.

I was being sincere. Oh well

Thanks for the vote of support.

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Well I disagree. I think you could of mentioned all of these things but chose not to, the title of this thread is misleading, you don't even give a summary of the season or anything and the reason you give for not doing so is poor (in my opinion), but I will forgive you this one time :P . I propose that a better title would of been, 'the FIA are incompetent' or something similar. If a newcomer (to the sport) read your opening post they would learn nothing of the season, so therefore this thread is, technically (due to the title) constantly off-topic, you get my drift?

BTW, you can't actually reflect on something until it has ended, so this thread should at least be called 'Most of 2007 in Reflection'. :P

I just sense negativity in your posts, it is slightly strange to start a thread which basically infers that Alonso should/would be ahead, right before the final race of the season (where Hamilton may win the title) - you understand how that might be interpreted as negative towards Hamilton? There is subtle negativity in some of your statements. Yes, the battle is close, Alonso has made more mistakes however, and it has been costly. Not sure why you think one (quite minor) penalty taints a whole championship (again this devalues Hamilton's efforts if he does win).

No I wasn't being confrontational, unlike you with your opening line 'Thank you for the intelligent reply'. The 'boo-hoo' wasn't really a direct response to you anyway, more of a general thing. I suppose that's interpretation, and everybody's is different.

I was saying that I feel there is little point in discussing Alonso's penalty any further, it's old news now and no doubt it has already been debated. Also I don't like the idea that this penalty helped Hamilton win the title (or gain the upper hand), Alonso was responsible for his actions that Saturday afternoon and his actions were stupid (as were Hamilton's). I disagree with the penalty, although I can understand why Alonso got it, and why Hamilton didn't get one. One action was concealed within the team, another was very public (one was team rule, the other an actual regulation). Although no doubt some people believe this is an example of FIA favouritism, interpretation again.

'(1)The depth of my statements is getting lost' - give me a break, your statements are about as deep as Honda's understanding of aerodynamics. Now that, was confrontational.

A computer can only operate within set parameters, it cannot judge, in my opinion it would be a poor solution.

To conclude, yes I agree with you, the FIA are inconsistant & incompetent. This has affected this year's championship in a negative way. Let's discuss it some more and see if it changes anything :D .

:mf_tongue: Thanks. I wasn't including you in the depth of my message, but I guess perhaps I should have. :mf_tongue:

You ridicule my title, my opinion and subject matter. So sorry my title doesn't met your high standards. and all I was trying to do was be nice and civil.

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I was being sincere. Oh well

Thanks for the vote of support.

.

Really? Wow, I really didn't think you were, considering the following line 'First let me clarify the assumptions you made.' - that doesn't shout sincerity to me, maybe I can't hear very well? :eusa_think: Intelligence & assumptions usually don't go together, but what would I know. Nevermind, anyway that simple misunderstanding has no bearing on the rest of my brilliantly observed and composed post.

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:mf_tongue: Thanks. I wasn't including you in the depth of my message, but I guess perhaps I should have. :mf_tongue:

You ridicule my title, my opinion and subject matter. So sorry my title doesn't met your high standards. and all I was trying to do was be nice and civil.

Oh come on, don't play the victim card, I was only joking around. I still love you YHR.

EDIT: I don't think I ridiculed your opinion, I agree with you on your basic point about the FIA. I just disagree with some of the things you said.

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I think when you have drivers parking on the track (or in the shared pits) to block a rival live on TV, it does bring the sport into disrepute and most people who watched live thought that at the time. My view on "cheating" is rather different to yours, but if you are going to punish people like Schumacher for blocking Alonso in Monaco, you have to penalise Alonso on Hamilton. The fact that he did it in his own pit box is irrelevant. The fact that he might have been in a strop because Hamilton pulled a fast one is irrelevant. The recent Hamilton-Kimi incident is very different and can't be compared, for example Hamilton didn't actually get in his direct way.

Yes. But only because everyone does very similar things.

I disagree. Discretion is important. When you penalise someone you have to take so many factors into account it's impossible to eliminate judgment. To argue otherwise is like saying we should forget about trial by judge and jury, and have trial by computer instead.

Well Hamilton says he didn't do it on purpose so all is well.(Impeding KR's flying lap)

My only solace is that many racing professionals were perplexed by that ruling, and share my viewpoint. I can take comfort in that. I am not going to bother with it here any more. Too much hostility for my liking.

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Well Hamilton says he didn't do it on purpose so all is well.(Impeding KR's flying lap)

My only solace is that many racing professionals were perplexed by that ruling, and share my viewpoint. I can take comfort in that. I am not going to bother with it here any more. Too much hostility for my liking.

Until the next time no doubt - Here's to hoping that you will return with a more positive outlook

:rolleyes:

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