foxtrot023

Alonso

61 posts in this topic

Alonso said all year long that the enemy was Ferrari, and that he should had the n1 role in Mclaren. Mclaren decided to support Hamilton, and we just saw the massive choke he had last 2 races (2pts in 2 races). Not only that but clearly Mclaren was not being objective in their support of Hamilton in detriment to Alonso (we were racing Alonso, not Raikkonen.......Ron take a bow).

One can

Edited by foxtrot023

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Ermmm....I never was fond of the whole Nr.1 status idea. I think it was stupid from Nando to ask that privilege, and I always thought that having a clear Nr.1 driver forces the team to race in a way that F1 is not conceived for. Team strategy is important in F1, but it is not your usual team sport. Team orders are forbidden, and the racers, in theory are allowed to race each other.

I like it that way. If anytime it changes to a true team sport, it would be interesting to watch, but for now there are no Nr.1 drivers in any team (in theory). Having Nando as a WDC at the cost of forcing Lewis to act as a mere sidekick would have been an empty victory.

Same goes for all those guys who, afetr bashing Nando for claiming a Nr.1 status, now ask for some mediocre driver to become Lewis partner at McLaren so Hammy can enjoy a Nr.1 status. That means being hypocrite.

I'd say let the drivers race each other. True, Ron's handling about the whole issue was subpar, but I still prefer all this mess than the whole Schumi king/Rubinho lackey stuff that Ferrari gave us in the past years.

Just my thoughts.

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VINDICATEDDDDD I AM SELFISH, I AM WROOONGG, I SWEAR I'M RIGHT, I SWEAR I KNEW IT ALL ALONG...

Oh wait what?

Fernando's more of a "Stronger" Kanye West guy for me.

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Ermmm....I never was fond of the whole Nr.1 status idea. I think it was stupid from Nando to ask that privilege, and I always thought that having a clear Nr.1 driver forces the team to race in a way that F1 is not conceived for. Team strategy is important in F1, but it is not your usual team sport. Team orders are forbidden, and the racers, in theory are allowed to race each other.

I like it that way. If anytime it changes to a true team sport, it would be interesting to watch, but for now there are no Nr.1 drivers in any team (in theory). Having Nando as a WDC at the cost of forcing Lewis to act as a mere sidekick would have been an empty victory.

Same goes for all those guys who, afetr bashing Nando for claiming a Nr.1 status, now ask for some mediocre driver to become Lewis partner at McLaren so Hammy can enjoy a Nr.1 status. That means being hypocrite.

I'd say let the drivers race each other. True, Ron's handling about the whole issue was subpar, but I still prefer all this mess than the whole Schumi king/Rubinho lackey stuff that Ferrari gave us in the past years.

Just my thoughts.

Yeah! This will make me look mad, but I actually admire Ron after this year. I wanted to give the guy a big manly hug to cheer him up after the race. He's so lovable when he gets all emotional, with that bald dome and with his language: "due to mal-optimised legalistic and inter-team communicatory practices, the team received a monetary admonishment from the FIA, which went entirely contrary to the established strategic path collectively envisioned by the mclaren team". The formal language and the intellectual, big-boss-guy-look make the almost teary-eyed moments all the more moving for me. Seriously.

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Alonso said all year long that the enemy was Ferrari, and that he should had the n1 role in Mclaren. Mclaren decided to support Hamilton, and we just saw the massive choke he had last 2 races (2pts in 2 races). Not only that but clearly Mclaren was not being objective in their support of Hamilton in detriment to Alonso (we were racing Alonso, not Raikkonen.......Ron take a bow).

One can

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I agree. Hindsight shows Ron gambled on the rookie and lost. Now what do they have for next year???? Alonso gone, and a very ordinary Hamilton(judgng by his final two races), on one of the most mismanaged teams on the grid.

There was no gamble involved, Lewis was simply faster of the 2. I accept that his inexperience cost him the WDC, but Nando needed to beat Lewis first before he could retain his WDC- The flip side to the argument could be that if Nando had supported Lewis, like felipe, then Mclaren would have a WDC in their ranks.

<_<

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Yeah! This will make me look mad, but I actually admire Ron after this year. I wanted to give the guy a big manly hug to cheer him up after the race. He's so lovable when he gets all emotional, with that bald dome and with his language: "due to mal-optimised legalistic and inter-team communicatory practices, the team received a monetary admonishment from the FIA, which went entirely contrary to the established strategic path collectively envisioned by the mclaren team". The formal language and the intellectual, big-boss-guy-look make the almost teary-eyed moments all the more moving for me. Seriously.

It does make you look mad.

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Alonso said all year long that the enemy was Ferrari, and that he should had the n1 role in Mclaren. Mclaren decided to support Hamilton, and we just saw the massive choke he had last 2 races (2pts in 2 races). Not only that but clearly Mclaren was not being objective in their support of Hamilton in detriment to Alonso (we were racing Alonso, not Raikkonen.......Ron take a bow).

One can

Edited by Jez

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There was no gamble involved, Lewis was simply faster of the 2. I accept that his inexperience cost him the WDC, but Nando needed to beat Lewis first before he could retain his WDC- The flip side to the argument could be that if Nando had supported Lewis, like felipe, then Mclaren would have a WDC in their ranks.

<_<

Now, now. Lewis was not the faster of the 2 by a mile. Was not and is not. The season has demonstrated the opposite time and again. Alonso has raced with half the car, with no support, with the FIA/RD/McLaren favouring Hamilton at every turn, and Alonso still has managed to fight for the WC to the very end. Even if all the "help" that Hamilton has received, you want to consider it "luck" or "coincidence", Hamilton has enjoyed a much much much easier championship.

Anyway, the case and point is yesterday's race. Alonso's car was an absolute lemon, especially when compared to Hamilton's, and yet Alonso run passed Hamilton and Hamilton couldn't do anything else than dive for the grass.

And YES (to answer the original poster) Alonso has been vindicated, fully, but also by pure chance. Things could have turned out otherwise results-wise.

But, hey, RD single-minded obsession of defeating Alonso has worked out at the end, even if equal in points, Hamilton got just a nose advantage and stole 2nd. Good on you RD for totally fcking up McLaren and making it possible for Kimi to earn a _much deserved_ WC!!!!!!

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erm Maure, he still would have loved to have seen Fernando win the title considering that he was in the other Mclaren.

Oh well look, Fernando didn't have the car speed today, like last year.

BTW I think that Fate played its hands today and it smiled on Kimi. A well deserved world Title, Hamilton Drove brillantly i thought, dont know what Mclaren were thinking by putting him on a 3 stopper?

Considering he was bullied by the BIG 3 at the Senna S, and he has never turned a wheel at this track before,he drove well under the circumstances.

And for Fernando, well his Mclaren Relationship started at Brazil (in 05) and its seems as though it has finished in the same country 2 years on.

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erm Maure, he still would have loved to have seen Fernando win the title considering that he was in the other Mclaren.

Oh well look, Fernando didn't have the car speed today, like last year.

Last year Alonso could afford not having the fastest car. This year, it was _again_ RD's lack of faith in Hamilton that put Alonso at a disadvantage. RD's was afraid of Alonso and Alonso's car performance shows how afraid RD was.

Remember RD's words? His sole objective has been to defeat Alonso. My opinion is that RD simply didn't consider that Kimi had a chance and bet it all on Hamilton.

He lost... at the expense of McLaren. Take note of the fckup.

BTW I think that Fate played its hands today and it smiled on Kimi. A well deserved world Title,

No arguments here. I am thrill. Kimi is the man.

Hamilton Drove brillantly i thought, dont know what Mclaren were thinking by putting him on a 3 stopper?

Must disagree. Hamilton lost the WC to a guy he was leading by 7 points at the start of the race. There is no coming back from that.

Considering he was bullied by the BIG 3 at the Senna S, and he has never turned a wheel at this track before,he drove well under the circumstances.

Bullied? Now, now. All drivers but him did what they were suppose to do. Regarding circumstances, well, he had one of the best cars in the field. What do you expect of him if not to zoom by most other drivers?

And for Fernando, well his Mclaren Relationship started at Brazil (in 05) and its seems as though it has finished in the same country 2 years on.

For sure. Alonso didn't realize what a mess he was getting himself into. In all truth, who could have know the mess that RD was going to make of a season that McLaren MUST HAVE danced its way through?

It applies to Hamilton too. RD's (mis)management has screwed him over big time. He needs to wake up and get rid of his handlers ASAP.

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Having Nando as a WDC at the cost of forcing Lewis to act as a mere sidekick would have been an empty victory.

At the end of the day Ferrari is the greates F1 team and Schumacher the greates F1 driver. You mean their victories are empty because Barrichello was #2? It is not what History will read.

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At the end of the day Ferrari is the greates F1 team and Schumacher the greates F1 driver. You mean their victories are empty because Barrichello was #2? It is not what History will read.

Isn't that what Schumacher/Ferrari haters have alleged for years?

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Isn't that what Schumacher/Ferrari haters have alleged for years?

I was never entirely convinced by Schumacher although I appreciated his mojo in bring Ferrari up to par.

That said, the treatment to Rubens was a disgrace and Schumacher won a couple of WC by simply driving a much superior car. Nonetheless, all things considered, I would not say Schumacher is the best ever but I will most certainly concede that he has been the best of late. Moreover, I will also concede that no present driver is _still_ the driver Schumacher was.

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I was never entirely convinced by Schumacher although I appreciated his mojo in bring Ferrari up to par.

That said, the treatment to Rubens was a disgrace and Schumacher won a couple of WC by simply driving a much superior car. Nonetheless, all things considered, I would not say Schumacher is the best ever but I will most certainly concede that he has been the best of late. Moreover, I will also concede that no present driver is _still_ the driver Schumacher was.

Well, the thing is, you can't have it all ways. Ferrari, if you listen to quite a lot of people, are the devil incarnate. A team of such a disposition would have no trouble, in my mind, of casting Schumi onto the heap if he did not deliver. I know Schumi had no. 1 status, but I believe he earnt it in many ways, not least his performance behind the wheel. I do not think for 1 minute that if any of the other drivers had even looked close to matching him, that Ferrari wouldn't have thought twice about letting them race each other until there was a favourite. I think this season is the blueprint for that and I believe that would have/could have happened the whole time Schumi was in the team.

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At the end of the day Ferrari is the greates F1 team and Schumacher the greates F1 driver. You mean their victories are empty because Barrichello was #2? It is not what History will read.

As I was not invited to write History, I can only speak for myself. The way Ferrari/Schumi used Rubinho as Nr.2 certainly detracted from Schumi's greatness. Many people feels comfortable with the thought of a driver being utterly dominant inside a team not by his skills, but by means of teams decisions. I don't.

If Nr.1 status were used this season freely, it would have been a borefest were Nando (or Hammy) and Kimi (or Massa) would have been winning while the other two's job would have been limited to a sweep across the field at the start to protect the Nr.1 guy. I say that's a waste of talent.

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Ermmm....I never was fond of the whole Nr.1 status idea. I think it was stupid from Nando to ask that privilege, and I always thought that having a clear Nr.1 driver forces the team to race in a way that F1 is not conceived for.[/b1] Team strategy is important in F1, but it is not your usual team sport. Team orders are forbidden, and the racers, in theory are allowed to race each other.

I like it that way. If anytime it changes to a true team sport, it would be interesting to watch, but for now there are no Nr.1 drivers in any team (in theory). Having Nando as a WDC at the cost of forcing Lewis to act as a mere sidekick would have been an empty victory.

Same goes for all those guys who, afetr bashing Nando for claiming a Nr.1 status, now ask for some mediocre driver to become Lewis partner at McLaren so Hammy can enjoy a Nr.1 status. That means being hypocrite.

I'd say let the drivers race each other. True, Ron's handling about the whole issue was subpar, but I still prefer all this mess than the whole Schumi king/Rubinho lackey stuff that Ferrari gave us in the past years.

Just my thoughts.

F1 has always had team orders and #1 drivers...and it was only "outlawed" within the last 5-10 years.

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Ron Dennis did indeed gamble on a rookie driver who despite having supreme talent, was totally inexperienced, and who in the end suffered badly the pressure placed on him to win the driver's title. Basically, Lewis Hamilton choked. He was very nervous before the start of the last race. And his opening lap at Brazil demonstrated how inexperienced he was at dealing with the whole situation.

Lewis Hamilton with the aid of Ron Dennis basically put himself into a very dificult situation that was totally unnecessary. His ambition to win the 2007 driver's title was greater than his maturity. There will definitely be psychological scars to deal with. And Ron Dennis, despite his age, showed considerable lack of wisdom and maturity himself in his management of the drivers at Maclaren. His love affair with Lewis Hamilton cost Maclaren the title.

On the face of it, this should have been Alonso's year at Maclaren. Hamilton should have spent the year as the pupil to the master. He would have learned a lot more and he would have been better prepared to deal with all the psychological pressures placed on him. Throughout human history this has always been the case. For Ron Dennis to throw out the wisdom cultivated through thousands of years of human civilisation is just plain foolishness. Apprenticeships are there for a reason.

As Jackie Stewart once said so very long ago, when talking about his supremely talented teammate Francois Cevert, it takes about three years for a driver with considerable talent to mature into a world championship contender. His comments remain true even today. Cevert was the dutiful and loyal pupil while Stewart was the attentive and doting master. What Cevert learned from Stewart was gold. Lewis Hamiton could have learned so much from Fernando Alonso this year. His choice to compete against his teammate resulted in him receiving no help at all from Alonso who could have been a very valuable teacher to the rookie in so many areas of racecraft.

In the end, the blame for losing the 2007 driver's title lies with Ron Dennis. He is a very flawed human being who as headmaster has psychologically damaged the pupil and estranged the teacher.

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Ron Dennis did indeed gamble on a rookie driver who despite having supreme talent, was totally inexperienced, and who in the end suffered badly the pressure placed on him to win the driver's title. Basically, Lewis Hamilton choked. He was very nervous before the start of the last race. And his opening lap at Brazil demonstrated how inexperienced he was at dealing with the whole situation.

Lewis Hamilton with the aid of Ron Dennis basically put himself into a very dificult situation that was totally unnecessary. His ambition to win the 2007 driver's title was greater than his maturity. There will definitely be psychological scars to deal with. And Ron Dennis, despite his age, showed considerable lack of wisdom and maturity himself in his management of the drivers at Maclaren. His love affair with Lewis Hamilton cost Maclaren the title.

On the face of it, this should have been Alonso's year at Maclaren. Hamilton should have spent the year as the pupil to the master. He would have learned a lot more and he would have been better prepared to deal with all the psychological pressures placed on him. Throughout human history this has always been the case. For Ron Dennis to throw out the wisdom cultivated through thousands of years of human civilisation is just plain foolishness. Apprenticeships are there for a reason.

As Jackie Stewart once said so very long ago, when talking about his supremely talented teammate Francois Cevert, it takes about three years for a driver with considerable talent to mature into a world championship contender. His comments remain true even today. Cevert was the dutiful and loyal pupil while Stewart was the attentive and doting master. What Cevert learned from Stewart was gold. Lewis Hamiton could have learned so much from Fernando Alonso this year. His choice to compete against his teammate resulted in him receiving no help at all from Alonso who could have been a very valuable teacher to the rookie in so many areas of racecraft.

In the end, the blame for losing the 2007 driver's title lies with Ron Dennis. He is a very flawed human being who as headmaster has psychologically damaged the pupil and estranged the teacher.

Because the 'Master' was actually a Sith Lord?

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Ron Dennis did indeed gamble on a rookie driver who despite having supreme talent, was totally inexperienced, and who in the end suffered badly the pressure placed on him to win the driver's title. Basically, Lewis Hamilton choked. He was very nervous before the start of the last race. And his opening lap at Brazil demonstrated how inexperienced he was at dealing with the whole situation.

Lewis Hamilton with the aid of Ron Dennis basically put himself into a very dificult situation that was totally unnecessary. His ambition to win the 2007 driver's title was greater than his maturity. There will definitely be psychological scars to deal with. And Ron Dennis, despite his age, showed considerable lack of wisdom and maturity himself in his management of the drivers at Maclaren. His love affair with Lewis Hamilton cost Maclaren the title.

On the face of it, this should have been Alonso's year at Maclaren. Hamilton should have spent the year as the pupil to the master. He would have learned a lot more and he would have been better prepared to deal with all the psychological pressures placed on him. Throughout human history this has always been the case. For Ron Dennis to throw out the wisdom cultivated through thousands of years of human civilisation is just plain foolishness. Apprenticeships are there for a reason.

As Jackie Stewart once said so very long ago, when talking about his supremely talented teammate Francois Cevert, it takes about three years for a driver with considerable talent to mature into a world championship contender. His comments remain true even today. Cevert was the dutiful and loyal pupil while Stewart was the attentive and doting master. What Cevert learned from Stewart was gold. Lewis Hamiton could have learned so much from Fernando Alonso this year. His choice to compete against his teammate resulted in him receiving no help at all from Alonso who could have been a very valuable teacher to the rookie in so many areas of racecraft.

In the end, the blame for losing the 2007 driver's title lies with Ron Dennis. He is a very flawed human being who as headmaster has psychologically damaged the pupil and estranged the teacher.

Indeed! You put in thr right way. In the worse case we would find the same Macca soapbox opera in 2008 but with a 2007 WDC!

Nevertheles both Alonso and Hami must won 0 points for the DC due to the stepneygate affair.

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I disagree with the apparent consensus that Lewis choked. He made a few mistakes for sure, but I think he was ultimately thwarted by luck. Could be wrong though.

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He got overexcited and fell off. And then his car broke. And that's all. No choking. No FIA conspiracy. No hidden agenda. Anyone who says otherwise should get out more.

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Ron Dennis did indeed gamble on a rookie driver who despite having supreme talent, was totally inexperienced, and who in the end suffered badly the pressure placed on him to win the driver's title. Basically, Lewis Hamilton choked. He was very nervous before the start of the last race. And his opening lap at Brazil demonstrated how inexperienced he was at dealing with the whole situation.

Lewis Hamilton with the aid of Ron Dennis basically put himself into a very dificult situation that was totally unnecessary. His ambition to win the 2007 driver's title was greater than his maturity. There will definitely be psychological scars to deal with. And Ron Dennis, despite his age, showed considerable lack of wisdom and maturity himself in his management of the drivers at Maclaren. His love affair with Lewis Hamilton cost Maclaren the title.

On the face of it, this should have been Alonso's year at Maclaren. Hamilton should have spent the year as the pupil to the master. He would have learned a lot more and he would have been better prepared to deal with all the psychological pressures placed on him. Throughout human history this has always been the case. For Ron Dennis to throw out the wisdom cultivated through thousands of years of human civilisation is just plain foolishness. Apprenticeships are there for a reason.

As Jackie Stewart once said so very long ago, when talking about his supremely talented teammate Francois Cevert, it takes about three years for a driver with considerable talent to mature into a world championship contender. His comments remain true even today. Cevert was the dutiful and loyal pupil while Stewart was the attentive and doting master. What Cevert learned from Stewart was gold. Lewis Hamiton could have learned so much from Fernando Alonso this year. His choice to compete against his teammate resulted in him receiving no help at all from Alonso who could have been a very valuable teacher to the rookie in so many areas of racecraft.

In the end, the blame for losing the 2007 driver's title lies with Ron Dennis. He is a very flawed human being who as headmaster has psychologically damaged the pupil and estranged the teacher.

Strange how Lewis finished 2nd in the WDC then?

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