DOF_power

New F1 Regulation To Facilitate Overtaking

37 posts in this topic

The technical directors agreed to proposals which are as follows:

- Front wing width increased to 180 instead of 140 cm.

- Front wing height decreased to 7.5 instead of 15 cm.

[ this essentially reverses an almost 15 years old trend of killing overtaking by making the front wing too small and 2 high ]

- The middle section over a width of 40 cm has to be a standard part.

- The driver may adjust the front wing flaps from the c#ckpit twice a lap by an angle of a maximum 6 degrees.

[ kind of crazy without additional restrictions; either limit it to a smaller angle and restrict the speed of movement or, even better, give them control of both front and rear wings with unlimited use and unlimited aoa changes ]

- Rear wing width 75 instead of 100 cm

- Rear wing height 95 instead of 80 cm.

[ moving the rear wing lower was another stupid decision made ~12 years ago witch made it more sensitive to turbulence ]

- the diffusor then starts from the centre of the rear axle rather than from the front end of the rear wheels.

- it may raise to 17.5 instead of 12.5 cm.

[ yet another stupid decision reversed ]

- the bodywork has to be clean. That means no barge boards, no winglets, no chimneys, no flipups.

[ well duh ]

Windtunnel research has shown that with the new rules the overall downforce loss will be 50 percent compared to the 2006 aero. If you follow another car within half a car length you will only lose 25 instead of 46 percent of the downforce and the balance shift will be 1 percent to the front rather than 4 percent to the back as it is now...

[ no need for a 50% loss of downforce really, as downforce isn't the problem but how you produce it is ]

Formula One Season grand prix - official calendar - race driver - F1 circuit team shop tickets interview

To sum it all up, most of the dumb decisions done in the past 15 years will be reversed.

However it doesn't mention the return of slicks and/or active suspensions witch would have improved things even further, or the front and rear movable wings propossed for 2011.

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so really what the front wing aoa change does is reduce front down force on the strait. You change it once on the beginning and once at the end of the strait. the only problem is that the longest strait is most often the start finish strait. Now what you could do is set up the car so it needs an increase of down force at once specific corner. but I bet the speed gained by reducing it on the strait will help lap times more

Edited by F1 FANatic

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To sum it all up, most of the dumb decisions done in the past 15 years will be reversed.

However it doesn't mention the return of slicks and/or active suspensions witch would have improved things even further, or the front and rear movable wings propossed for 2011.

Thanks for the info...Hopefuly it gets passed..

I think slicks were announced allready for 2010??

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Slicks? I haven't seen or even heard of any announcement with any indication for removing the grooves.

Although I for one are bloody hopeful they will return, good old mechanical grip :)

Now for the FIA to see the options and change them all to be the reverse, overtaking is dangerous and can cause a reduction in fuel economy, best to leave the series without any...

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so really what the front wing aoa change does is reduce front down force on the strait. You change it once on the beginning and once at the end of the strait. the only problem is that the longest strait is most often the start finish strait. Now what you could do is set up the car so it needs an increase of down force at once specific corner. but I bet the speed gained by reducing it on the strait will help lap times more

A lever/switch on the steering wheel means the driver could/would adjust it as needed.

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To sum it all up, most of the dumb decisions done in the past 15 years will be reversed.

However it doesn't mention the return of slicks and/or active suspensions witch would have improved things even further, or the front and rear movable wings propossed for 2011.

One step at a time

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Most overtaking is done on slow to medium corners. In those situations, the car is going too slow to really depend on much downforce generated by the front wings. What you need is mechanical grip (slick tyres) to ensure you have the front-end 'bite' needed to overtake. These new regulations also don't help a car be any more stable for off-line overtaking like slicks would produce.

These regulations help reduce the disruption on the trailing car, which is half the problem, but don't address what happens after you've pulled out from behind the car ahead and are actually trying to overtake. The only aero solution that would work for this would be to lower the front wings...which I notice is not going to happen (unless the 'height' of the front wing referrs to the distance from the ground and not the actual height of the wing itself). Also, by knocking off the greeblies but not addressing the undertray, you are making a more unstable car. That might be fun to watch, but probably won't facilitate overtaking in and of itself.

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>

^ Mechanical grip isn't exactly cheap.

You it's relative.

Suspensions (these passive geometry stuff) need to modified/redesigned for every track. Witch in turns may require modifications for brakes. And ever since the of both wide tires and slicks teams build the cars around them. For example I was reading about the Lotus 72 as well watching a documentary (Lotus 1973) and this car was purposely build for the new wide/slicks tires. What this implied was moving the weight to the rear and also increasing the wheelbase.

On the tire side the best grip comes with sticky tires witch always a result of tire wars. And for the tire manufacturers these are not cheap.

So when we're taking all into consideration, no, in no way is mechanical grip cheap. Because even if you have the tires without the proper adapted chassis things don't really work.

And if you want the ultimate mechanical grip you'd need to add to the slick also active suspensions and AWD (preferably with active torque distribution).

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Withthe engine freeze for 10 years, how much will this impact on cars that will be stuck with their crappy 2008 engine?

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>

^ Mechanical grip isn't exactly cheap.

You it's relative.

Suspensions (these passive geometry stuff) need to modified/redesigned for every track. Witch in turns may require modifications for brakes. And ever since the of both wide tires and slicks teams build the cars around them. For example I was reading about the Lotus 72 as well watching a documentary (Lotus 1973) and this car was purposely build for the new wide/slicks tires. What this implied was moving the weight to the rear and also increasing the wheelbase.

On the tire side the best grip comes with sticky tires witch always a result of tire wars. And for the tire manufacturers these are not cheap.

So when we're taking all into consideration, no, in no way is mechanical grip cheap. Because even if you have the tires without the proper adapted chassis things don't really work.

And if you want the ultimate mechanical grip you'd need to add to the slick also active suspensions and AWD (preferably with active torque distribution).

I'm not concerned with 'cheap'; spend what you need to spend to get us in the proper direction. If rules become stable after that, the teams will only have one, maybe two years of high-cost. As it is, just the proposed aero modifications will probably affect all the things you've listed, so I don't see where adding slicks into it would greatly affect the cost past where it will be now.

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A lever/switch on the steering wheel means the driver could/would adjust it as needed.

well if they are only allowed two changes per lap that means in affect they can increase or decrease DF once per lap. the first switch would add or subtract from front end DF and the second go back to the original. So the car would be set up for the race so that at one point it would need more or less aero to do the best times possible.

think of Fuji, what would you do, as soon as you come onto the strait you take away as much aero as possibe and at the end go back to what you had before. thats really what that does

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Interesting.

Is there an official release statement with all the details provided by the fia? Just for my curiosity.

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Most overtaking is done on slow to medium corners. In those situations, the car is going too slow to really depend on much downforce generated by the front wings. What you need is mechanical grip (slick tyres) to ensure you have the front-end 'bite' needed to overtake. These new regulations also don't help a car be any more stable for off-line overtaking like slicks would produce.

These regulations help reduce the disruption on the trailing car, which is half the problem, but don't address what happens after you've pulled out from behind the car ahead and are actually trying to overtake. The only aero solution that would work for this would be to lower the front wings...which I notice is not going to happen (unless the 'height' of the front wing referrs to the distance from the ground and not the actual height of the wing itself). Also, by knocking off the greeblies but not addressing the undertray, you are making a more unstable car. That might be fun to watch, but probably won't facilitate overtaking in and of itself.

1] From what I'm hearing slicks should come back later on.

2] Also mechanical grip advantage over aero means that if a tire burst things can get realy nasty like in the pre-wings/pre aero advantage days (Hamilton in Turkey would have had a horiffic accident).

If either mechanical grip or wing-winglets or underbody gets an overwhelming advantage in generating the grip than when this one-dominant-source witchever-it-may-be fails bad things happen.

Both tire bursts, wing failures, skirt/undertrays/underbody failures have caused injuries and/or deaths.

A balance is imperative

3] The underbody is somewhat adressed.

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Hope it improves the racing...one thing is for sure...the cars will look 100 times better without all the aero Sh#t.

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Hope it improves the racing...one thing is for sure...the cars will look 100 times better without all the aero Sh#t.

That's true, although we'll still see some crazy liveries like this year's Honda.

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tbh Crazy Liveries are much better than the overuse of white that happens on cars these days.

+1 agree. Wait...you are not including Renault are you? :eusa_think:

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tbh Crazy Liveries are much better than the overuse of white that happens on cars these days.

I don't care much for the livery as long as their doing well, Honda have a crap livery and a crap car, sucks to be them. I liked last year's Mclaren, this year's is a bit too strong. Paul Di Resta's DTM has a terrible livery, worse than Honda, least it's competitive though.

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+1 agree. Wait...you are not including Renault are you? :eusa_think:
Fair point, though that commits the worst sin of having a bizarre livery that features a whole load of white so it's sort of a 2 for 1 deal that makes the special colourscheme Honda ran, (was it China 06?) respectable

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i think the idea woulb be:

a) aerodinamic changes make cars can be closer in the fast curves

B) that makes they are closer in the next straight

c) finaly this closeness makes easier to overtake in the slow curve.

So even when the aerodinamical changes have no direct implication in overtaking can help a lot

am i wrong?

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