So I Guess Its Fair To Say That Michael And Ferrari Were Right All Along...

[Shooting Star 0]

F1 needs number one drivers says Symonds

''It is better to go all out behind one car''

30/10/07 10:03

Pat Symonds has suggested that he has changed his mind about whether Formula One teams should appoint number one drivers.

The veteran Briton, who is Renault's Executive Director of Engineering, has traditionally agreed with the McLaren-style policy of offering absolute equality to both drivers.

But his boss Flavio Briatore said recently that McLaren counterpart Ron Dennis had erred in signing Fernando Alonso for 2007 but not giving him an advantageous position alongside his rookie team-mate Lewis Hamilton.

"Today the roles need to be clearly defined as number one and number two, otherwise you risk destabilizing the team," Briatore, who would gladly reunite Renault with Alonso for 2008, said.

Symonds told the Renault podcast that the Enstone based team has always offered driver equality, even when Alonso won his titles alongside Giancarlo Fisichella in 2005 and 2006.

"Even when we had Fernando winning championships, there were occasions when we had only one wing, so we wouldn't take it to the race," said Symonds.

"We weren't going to favor one driver over the other and I have been very, very strong about that in the past.

"But I have to say I am changing my view," he added.

"Motor racing is a team sport and I think you have really got to do what is best for the team and I think these days it is better to go all out behind one car."

- source: F1-Live.com

Its funny to see F1 bosses chiming in with the obvious after the years of bashing Ferrari received for setting a No.1 status.

Lets see how many more top F1 teams carry on with the "Just let them race!" policy. I say bring team orders back. Its silly to "ban" team orders when you can easily manipulate the result without being blatant.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yes it's pretty obvious everyone will be rethinking this after watching McLaren implode this year. That is why I admire Ron now: he sacrificed his team's interests in favour of letting us watch a fair(-ish) fight. Most other people will be selfish and do what's best for the team.

[Quiet One 15]

I don't care what team members say. This is all just a big mind game, anyways.

I don't like drivers having a Nr.1 status. Didn't like it in Schumi's days, and I don't like it in Nando's.

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

I don't care what team members say. This is all just a big mind game, anyways.

I don't like drivers having a Nr.1 status. Didn't like it in Schumi's days, and I don't like it in Nando's.

The Quiet One speaks the truth on this matter. This bothers me actually: This is not the first time Mclaren have been burned by having two inspired drivers but they'll do it again, this is not the first time there's been a huge spy scandal or cheat scandal that has caused massive drama and controvercy, this is not the first time team mates have had a huge messy falling out where neither came out smelling of roses and it sure as hell isn't the most controversial season ever. Life goes on!

[elgo 1]

I'm against this idea,but I understand some teams are starting to think about it,cause after all if two teams are fighting for the championship and in one of them only one of the drivers wins whereas in the other one there are even results between the two drivers, the first team maximizes his options a lot.

[Rainmaster 7]

Number 1 status must be earned and not contracted, if one driver is (signicantly) better than the other then it makes sense to put your efforts behind that driver.

[dribbler 6]

So Mclaren apparently c#cked up not adopting a clear number one and Symonds has gone all wobbly about how it should be done?

Meantime, Ferrari have just proved it can be done both ways. It's how the situation is managed during a season that's important, not deciding from the outset, as Fernando seemed to want.

The reason Ferrari made it look easy is because Michael stamped his authority on a season very early, thus making the question of who to back very straight forward. Equally, this year Kimi and Fellip e didn't bitch about the situation, they just got their heads down and tried to exert their respective authorities on track. Logic then dictated the course of events. No petulance, no paranoia, no confusion.

Enstone and Woking, take note.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Number 1 status for a driver will greatly increase the chance of winning that driver the WDC. Even though it's been done for years, I feel it isn't in the proper spirit of the WDC. There are two championships going on at one time, the driver's and the constructor's....using a clear number one is sacrificing the purity of the driver's championship on the order of the a constructor and I don't like it. Drivers should be allowed to fight it out, man to man, clawing every point they can.

I don't like that Gilles played second fiddle to a slower and less talented Jody. Given a free hand in the races, without the team dicating orders, we would have the proper result of Gilles winning 1 WDC and Jody winning none.

Accepting team orders have been a part of auto racing since day 1 does not mean I like it.

[dribbler 6]

I don't like that Gilles played second fiddle to a slower and less talented Jody. Given a free hand in the races, without the team dicating orders, we would have the proper result of Gilles winning 1 WDC and Jody winning none.

So why did Ferrari back a driver who they knew to be inferior? That makes no sense to me. I ask sincerely, Mike because i'm not jemmed up on the history of '79.

[Autumnpuma 0]

It was Jody's turn and Gilles was a team-player.

[Fed up 0]

So why did Ferrari back a driver who they knew to be inferior? That makes no sense to me. I ask sincerely, Mike because i'm not jemmed up on the history of '79.

I'm with you on this one -

[DOF_power 0]

It was Jody's turn and Gilles was a team-player.

Yes but ... Gilles had the reputation of a young wild animal, while Jody was mature. Stecker was once, in his F1 youth , similar somwhat to Gilles, but he was by now transformed. Also in the second half of the 79 season Williams with their new ground effect FW07 car were the team to beat.

So to beat the Jones/Williams combination team discipline was needed, and Stecker was more mature and more experienced of the bunch.

[dribbler 6]

It was Jody's turn and Gilles was a team-player.

His turn? Is that seriously how they decided?

[DOF_power 0]

Villeneuve was supossed to win in 1980. But he only got the car in 1982, the year he died.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Yes but ... Gilles had the reputation of a young wild animal, while Jody was mature. Stecker was once, in his F1 youth , similar somwhat to Gilles, but he was by now transformed. Also in the second half of the 79 season Williams with their new ground effect FW07 car were the team to beat.

So to beat the Jones/Williams combination team discipline was needed, and Stecker was more mature and more experienced of the bunch.

Factually correct, but with a strange anti-Gilles skew. Gilles mentioned all through the '79 season that there were races that he could have easily passed Jody if not for the team orders (this is borne out by many observers at the time looking at practice/qualy and race laps times). Jody has acknowledged Gilles superior racecraft numerous times, especially in the wet. Jody, for all his talent, was never in Gilles league. That is not just my opinion, but one shared by a great many F1 fans, drivers, F1 press and observers and even Jody himself.

His turn? Is that seriously how they decided?

Yup. DOF expanded a bit on it, but that's exactly how they did it.

[dribbler 6]

Villeneuve was supossed to win in 1980. But he only got the car in 1982, the year he died.

I'm still confused.

[DOF_power 0]

Stecker was supposed to win in 1979, Villeneuve in 1980.

get it ?!

But, when his turn came, the Ferrari 312 T5 of 1980 was soundly beaten by Williams, Brabham, Ligier ground effects aerodynamics and Renault Turbo power+ground effects.

They, Ferrari, went from champs in 1979 to 10th team (just 8 points) in 1980.

Only in 1982 did they have a competitive car.

Gilles put up incredibely with the absolute Sh#tboxes Ferrari gave him 1980 and 1981.

The madness and technique he used to exctract every ounce of performance from those pieces of crap was unseen since Bernd Rosemeyer and Tazio Nuvolari wresled with mid engined Auto Union monsters in the 1930s.

[Max Mosley 2]

What a glorious sport it was back then! They took it in turns to win? Puts the scandals of today into perspective for me. (I gather that this alternating no. 1 status was a public arrangement though?)

[Autumnpuma 0]

That is why so much is made of Peroni ignoring team orders and passing Gilles in '82. Gilles figured Peroni was going to be as true to his word, and as much a team player, as he was. He figured wrong. It was Gilles turn in '82 and Peroni p!ssed all over that, passing Gilles not with superior speed (lap times showed Gilles was consistently faster) but rather with inferior ethics. After that, Gilles figured, rightly, that it was every man for himself at Ferrari and went to the next race with an almost superhuman determination to beat Peroni. That mindset, many believe, led to his death while trying to better Peroni's time.

[Autumnpuma 0]

What a glorious sport it was back then! They took it in turns to win? Puts the scandals of today into perspective for me. (I gather that this alternating no. 1 status was a public arrangement though?)

It was public and had always been public. Team orders really have been a normal part of team-based motor racing.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah thanks for the stories! The off season will be a good time for some of us to learn about the past masters.

[DOF_power 0]

What a glorious sport it was back then! They took it in turns to win? Puts the scandals of today into perspective for me. (I gather that this alternating no. 1 status was a public arrangement though?)

Wasn't the first time.

- In 1956 Fangio was fighting with Moss for the championship. Fangio was out at one point, but Ferrari team mate Peter Collins came to the pit and gave Fangio his car as was expected of a no.2 vs. the no.1 at a team and it was allowed by regulations. Fangio continued the race and took points, and it was enough to win his 4th WDC. Fangio remained a greatfull friend to Collins for that.

- 1964 Surtees/Ferrari vs. Clark/Lotus vs. Hill/BRM battle to the wire;

Clark drops due to problems, and Bandini, Surtees Ferrari team mates, takes out Hill and so Surtees wins the WDC.

[Max Mosley 2]

Cheers! I always defended the "cheating" that goes on today, and I'm glad to see my impressions of human nature are backed up by history!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Using team orders right from the start of the season is not sporting. Looking at F1 history, nearly all the champions won the title without using team orders until near the end when their team-mate had no mathematical chance. Only Schumacher was gifted positions mid-season.

McLaren were very unlucky not to win the drivers title this year, its never hurt them before, and thanks to Ron we were given a fantastic competitive rivalry between Hamilton & Alonso

[AutoRacer5 0]

That is why so much is made of Peroni ignoring team orders and passing Gilles in '82. Gilles figured Peroni was going to be as true to his word, and as much a team player, as he was. He figured wrong. It was Gilles turn in '82 and Peroni p!ssed all over that, passing Gilles not with superior speed (lap times showed Gilles was consistently faster) but rather with inferior ethics. After that, Gilles figured, rightly, that it was every man for himself at Ferrari and went to the next race with an almost superhuman determination to beat Peroni. That mindset, many believe, led to his death while trying to better Peroni's time.

Pironi.

L2 Spell