A New Renclarrir? Let The Games Begin.......

[hattivatti 0]

Humm yeah there seems to be a big difference with this new case and the McLaren-Ferrari saga...

Renault initiated the contact, even offered their computers to be studied by McLaren and they did not take the opportunity...Mr. Briatore seems to be pretty open about the whole affair, whereas with mclaren we first hear "NO NO it was only Coughlan"

[Quiet One 15]

Well, obviously Renault hasn't put to much use whatever they got from McLaren. If they were indeed floppy disks, they must've been from the McLaren Peugeot era, judging from the results Renault obtained this year.

Anyways, time for me to have some fun:

1) Renault is innocent. The only persons to blame are the 15 persons that saw the info, the computers and the floppy disk manufacturer.

2) Nobody can prove they use any information. So they are innocent.

3) Every team does it, so there is no news. Plus, as there are crimes everywhere, Renault can, if they want to, kill Mosley.

4) Should Alonso have refrained from whatever you want to blame him of, McLaren would have not been fined, and Ron would have not start pointing his finger at Renault, so this is ultimately Nando's fault.

Bah, I'm bored, sorry.

[KoolMonkey 0]

When was the last time any of you used a floppy disk? Cutting edge technology you know. A big fat 1.44mb, or maybe it was even one of those awesome 1.2mb 5.25" floppies. Millions spent on wind tunnels, designer pit crew clothes and craft trucks at the events, and their poor engineers have to use old 486 computers to get the job done.

[Jean Todt 4]

Well, obviously Renault hasn't put to much use whatever they got from McLaren. If they were indeed floppy disks, they must've been from the McLaren Peugeot era, judging from the results Renault obtained this year.

Anyways, time for me to have some fun:

1) Renault is innocent. The only persons to blame are the 15 persons that saw the info, the computers and the floppy disk manufacturer.

2) Nobody can prove they use any information. So they are innocent.

3) Every team does it, so there is no news. Plus, as there are crimes everywhere, Renault can, if they want to, kill Mosley.

4) Should Alonso have refrained from whatever you want to blame him of, McLaren would have not been fined, and Ron would have not start pointing his finger at Renault, so this is ultimately Nando's fault.

Bah, I'm bored, sorry.

Bah.... I am bored too.

If Mclaren can be found Guilty, just because some of their employees, so should Renault be found guilty. Guess Flavio is banging his head on the wall right now. After all the show he created by sending guys to Paris to find out what they discused in court. And the way he spoke of Ron's team accusing him of cheating. Guess he has to swallow a couple of Bullets. Heard, hair is growing back on Rons head.

[Schumikonen 2]

When was the last time any of you used a floppy disk? Cutting edge technology you know. A big fat 1.44mb, or maybe it was even one of those awesome 1.2mb 5.25" floppies. Millions spent on wind tunnels, designer pit crew clothes and craft trucks at the events, and their poor engineers have to use old 486 computers to get the job done.

That's weird, the best technology in the word and still using floppy disk.

I would like to know how much info can a driver take from one team to another, I mean in cases like Alonso, who everybody think he was the one who made Renault to get to the top places, then he switch to Mclaren, given that he is a technical driver, he knew a lot about the car he was driving, can he give any new idea to Mclaren, based on what he learned at Renault, adn now can he give the same kind of info to the new team that he will be with? are they allow to do that? how could that situation, if is possible to be monitored? I know that a driver like Schumi know a lot about Ferrari and he can easily take that knowledge to a new team, can someone tell something about this? can a driver be penalized for something like this?

[Schumikonen 2]

Bah.... I am bored too.

If Mclaren can be found Guilty, just because some of their employees, so should Renault be found guilty. Guess Flavio is banging his head on the wall right now. After all the show he created by sending guys to Paris to find out what they discused in court. And the way he spoke of Ron's team accusing him of cheating. Guess he has to swallow a couple of Bullets. Heard, hair is growing back on Rons head.

It would be very interesting to see Alonso and renault begginig next season on a negative score, that would be great for Ferrari but I feel like FIA will be softer in this case.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

[Quiet One 15]

Renault's floppies is cutting edge technology, when compared to McLaren's photocopies

Geez, what's next? Courier pidgeons?

[spitfire 0]

Clearly Renault have been caught with the hand in the cookie jar. However, Renault will not be penalised any where near as harshly as Mclaren were because Renault have not commited the utimate sin! ie: they are not beating Ferrari.

In F1 the first commandment is "thou shalt not go faster than Ferrari", you must not damage the frigile ego of the italian red car company. The FIA have spoken let us all bow our heads and kiss the Ferrari's nose.

[Max Mosley 2]

Indeed Andres!

Bah.... I am bored too.

Bah.... I am posting here too.

That's weird, the best technology in the word and still using floppy disk.

Of course, they don't really have the best technology in the world...

I would like to know how much info can a driver take from one team to another, I mean in cases like Alonso, who everybody think he was the one who made Renault to get to the top places, then he switch to Mclaren, given that he is a technical driver, he knew a lot about the car he was driving, can he give any new idea to Mclaren, based on what he learned at Renault, adn now can he give the same kind of info to the new team that he will be with? are they allow to do that? how could that situation, if is possible to be monitored? I know that a driver like Schumi know a lot about Ferrari and he can easily take that knowledge to a new team, can someone tell something about this? can a driver be penalized for something like this?

Yes, good questions. I imagine the drivers have to sign contracts that stop them revealing ideas from their teams when they leave, but in F1 these will surely mean very little. Having said that, most of the work going on at Ferrari will be far too complicated for even Schumi to understand. Poaching a designer would be much more effective if you want to copy another car.

[Jean Todt 4]

It would be very interesting to see Alonso and renault begginig next season on a negative score, that would be great for Ferrari but I feel like FIA will be softer in this case.

yep, as long as Flavio sleeps with Mosley, things are fine.

[Jean Todt 4]

Bah.... I am posting here too.

Trust me Muzza. I wouldnt come back to this forum if guys like you weren't there. TF1 must pay you.

[Max Mosley 2]

Good idea! Maybe you could PM admin for me? Obviously I would do it myself, but coming from me it might seem immodest.

[whiskee 0]

Here we go... the new saga will keep everyone on their toes until Xmas at least.

Renault are in a world of trouble. I'm starting to hope Heikki flees as soon as possibe.

[bani_f1 0]

Here we go... the new saga will keep everyone on their toes until Xmas at least.

Renault are in a world of trouble. I'm starting to hope Heikki flees as soon as possibe.

I am still very confused about Heikki fleeing.He will be testing for Renault this week in Barcelona.But i am waiting to see what will be Alonso's decision?

Will he go 2 a team who has been caught for spying?if he doesnt what will he do?where will he go?

[rodders47 2]

no truer words have every been spoken "spitfire"

[Jean Todt 4]

Good idea! Maybe you could PM admin for me? Obviously I would do it myself, but coming from me it might seem immodest.

Trust me Muzza, I am too arrogant to do a social service for you ...well, unless I have something to gain!

[Max Mosley 2]

Cheers Abbas!

[mikathegreat2 2]

http://totalf1.com/view-article.php?newsid=235504

:clap3: show is getting better....let me get a mug of coffee!

Guess Renault are in deep sh1t for next season. Wonder if they're doing it to really p1ss off Nando!

[Jean Todt 4]

Guess Renault are in deep sh1t for next season. Wonder if they're doing it to really p1ss off Nando!

I hope they are. If they dont, then what they did to Mclaren was not fair. Renault says, only its employees had the data, but the data was found in computer belonging to Renault F1, and not like how they discovered ferrari doccuments in someone's pc at his home. So, they should find themselves in deeper Sh#t. If they are not given sanctions, Mclaren must be given its constructor's points back, and fine should be avoided. Just my opinion.

[Fed up 0]

Given what Renault has admitted it is fairly clear that the team is in at least as bad a situation as was McLaren - something which Flavio Briatore denied when the first rumours emerged about the problem.

Some would argue that this is much worse as Renault is admitting that the information was inside its factory and in its computer network - something which McLaren denied being the case with the documents that Mike Coughlan received from Ferrari and of which not trace has been found despite strenuous efforts by the FIA.

The argument that not much information was involved is irrelevant as the FIA rules do not quantify how much espionage is acceptable. A dozen disks are as bad as 780 pages of paperwork.

The fact that there are witness statements from a number of Renault engineers (we hear the number is 15) admitting that they have seen the data suggests that this is much more of a problem than was the case against McLaren.

The question we cannot answer is what was included in these witness statements and what was admitted by the engineers involved. Renault says that only minimal information was seen. That argument did not work for McLaren and there is not reason to suggest it would work for Renault. These details will no doubt come out in either the judgement of the case or in the transcripts of the World Council meeting.

Renault says that it has cooperated fully and has been "proactive in solving this matter". This did not help McLaren and so there is no reason to suggest it will help Renault.

On the face of it, therefore, the least that Renault can expect is a similar punishment to McLaren: a fine of $100m and the loss of all the team's points for 2007.

For the punishment to be anything less than that - given what the team has admitted - would not be fair.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19855.html

[Quiet One 15]

Ah, I love it!!!

Now who is the whiner? The whole F1 press is crying fro Renault to be punished harshly. Not because they deserve it for the espionage thing, but because McLaren and Dennis were punished.

Pathetic.

As for me, I hope Renault gets punished and harshly so. It kills me to know that my beloved team is involved in these kind of things. So I hope the punishment is fair enough to clear their name and allow them to make a new, better start.

And if every team does this, then let every team be punished this way. I don't care. Espionage is illegal. If the rules are unclear, that's why there is a governing body to interpret their meaning. Yes, the FIA sucks. But so do the teams. Floppies? Photocopies? It has no finesse.

As someone (I think Trulli) said when Schumi parked his car at Monaco: "It's not that he cheated, it's that he did it so lousily..."

[pumpdoc 2]

Merged and retitled.

[Fed up 0]

Another cracking article here

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19856.html

[Rees1985 0]

All I can say is that December is going to be a very interesting month, the 6th when Renault are investigated and the 8th when we will know if McLaren have any Ferrari in the their 2008 car! As well as driver changes Heaven when there's no racing!7

Is it the 7th or the 8th that McLaren find out if they can race? I'm now confused, I thought it was the 8th, but I've just read on a news story somewhere that it was the 7th?