DOF_power

Shock And Awe : Some Common Sense From Bernie

32 posts in this topic

Some common sense from Bernie

28/11/2007

bernie150port3.jpgOne cannot help but feel that Bernie Ecclestone, not the most internet savvy person on earth, has been spending some of his (rare) spare time checking out various F1 forums and message boards.

In an interview for the official F1 website (Formula1.com) the former racer and team boss, was asked if he thought the ban on electronic driver aids next season would improve the quality of the racing.

"It's difficult to say," he admitted. "The big problem we have is that the tyres are a bit soft. They produce so many marbles that by the end of the weekend there is only one line to race on. Therefore the drivers follow each other on that line. The only exception is in the rain, when all of a sudden you have many lines to drive. That is why rain produces the best racing.

"Whether removing these driver aids will help the situation, I don't know," he continued. "I suggest that the promoter cleans the track on Saturday night to prepare for the race in order to create conditions like in the rain and that the tyre manufacturer perhaps supplies harder tyres. You lose grip from the tyres but if you then improve the mechanical grip from the car, you will get better racing."

While Max Mosley has championed the return of customer cars, Ecclestone admits that he is dead against the concept.

"I don't think it should be allowed to happen," he admitted. "When I go and buy a complete car from somebody else and race it because I am afraid to compete on my own against the manufacturers, then we will soon have four McLarens and four Ferraris on the grid with all the problems such a situation provokes. If the championship is at stake, they are going to help each other.

"We should go back to where we started and have constructors. If you are not a constructor, you should not be in Formula One. You should be obliged to build and design your own car."

Wise words from the old boy... lets just hope that you-know-who is listening.

<h4 class="pparticlesubheading">http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33480</h4>

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So more mechanical grip.

Why did they banned slick and active suspensions then.

Politics... But Slicks are coming back in 09 sooooo

Anyways, how did u manage to post this article from pitpass.com???

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Slicks were also banned to try and reduce speeds. The same went for increasing the height of the front wing. But in doing so, they created more problems than they fixed.

I can't wait for slicks to re-appear and also for all the winglet gadget hoohah thingies to be removed from the cars.

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Slicks were also banned to try and reduce speeds. The same went for increasing the height of the front wing. But in doing so, they created more problems than they fixed.

I can't wait for slicks to re-appear and also for all the winglet gadget hoohah thingies to be removed from the cars.

so, a good driver will be rewarded well if he can drive with traction control off with slicks?

generally, with traction control on it is possible to set a faster time over a lap, just because it makes life easy. If Guys like Jenson get a good car, is it possible to beat the V10 powered F1 cars with 2008 regs?

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"Whether removing these driver aids will help the situation, I don't know," he continued. "I suggest that the promoter cleans the track on Saturday night to prepare for the race in order to create conditions like in the rain and that the tyre manufacturer perhaps supplies harder tyres. You lose grip from the tyres but if you then improve the mechanical grip from the car, you will get better racing."

:lol: This is a good illustration of the problems of allowing technical competition. The only way to have the right tyres for the sport is for the FIA to say exactly how they should be. Same with the cars.

While Max Mosley has championed the return of customer cars, Ecclestone admits that he is dead against the concept.

Max is right.

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Max is right.

Yep I agree. Problem in F1 as most of the bottom end teams have found out is that it takes a phenomenal investment to get on the grid, let alone produce a competitive car. If customer cars are banned then STR and SA must develop their own or get kicked out. If that happens we either have 16 cars on the grid (which has got to be bad news) or STR/SA are forced to develop their own cars, which means a bunch of even worse performing cars at the back of the grid, they will act as mobile road-blocks, struggle to get half-decent drivers/sponsorship, get into a vicious circle and the team will probably die. And hey 16 cars on the grid...

Also puts the cost of entry too high and therefore only big organisations can afford to come in. Its already bad enough, but forcing new car development just makes that worse.

Whilst F1 spending is at the level that it is I see that customer cars is the *only* way forward for smaller teams.

This is not unique in F1, back in the 70s as I recall, it was not unusual for a new team to come in with a car that was bought from another team.

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Yeah I agree. It makes the whole field more competitive and hence makes the drivers more important!

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This is not unique in F1, back in the 70s as I recall, it was not unusual for a new team to come in with a car that was bought from another team.

Usually from a bloke called Moseley.

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Slicks were also banned to try and reduce speeds. The same went for increasing the height of the front wing. But in doing so, they created more problems than they fixed.

I can't wait for slicks to re-appear and also for all the winglet gadget hoohah thingies to be removed from the cars.

Even more moving the rear wing down didn't reduced the downforce it produced. It just led to the aparition of these aeroremlins who's purpose is to feed the low rear wing with clean air.

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Well I really don't like the idea of customer cars, but if it means more teams (and drivers) and closer competition, then fine by me.

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Well I really don't like the idea of customer cars, but if it means more teams (and drivers) and closer competition, then fine by me.

You can have more teams without customer cars, there are enough people who want to invest and enough drivers who want to stay/come in

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You can have more teams without customer cars, there are enough people who want to invest and enough drivers who want to stay/come in

Yeah but it's not that easy, look at ProDrive. I just want more cars in F1 and closer competition, customer cars does deliver that better than the conventional way. I would like a 26 car grid tbh.

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so, a good driver will be rewarded well if he can drive with traction control off with slicks?

generally, with traction control on it is possible to set a faster time over a lap, just because it makes life easy. If Guys like Jenson get a good car, is it possible to beat the V10 powered F1 cars with 2008 regs?

Of course he will be rewarded if he can drive without TC on slicks.Its gonna be very challenging and then only we can know who deserves to be in f1 and who is being overhyped.

And it is possible to beat the times set by a V10 f1 car by the current car,but its gonna be tough.Depends on the driver how he manages his car.A guy like schumi can certainly adjust a lot better with the car and the settings to cope up with the loss of TC.Differential settings during a lap would matter a lot.with proper set-up and driving ability one can certailny match the lap record or evn surpass it.We could see in 2007 drivers getting close to it.I hope with slicks and without TC it is possible.

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>

^ What the hell is all this nonsense ?!

A good/top driver will drive well with or without TC, with or without slicks.

Adaptability is crucial these days.

And for Button doesn't seem the most adaptable driver.

And I'm sorry but it's not the 1950s any more.

Differential settings are important wheater you have or don't have TC; as is the case for brake bias and in the Indy series the weight-jacker settings.

And no those V10s won't be beaten.

The 2004 cars had both more power and more downforce (~1700 kg vs. ~1500 Kg today) and tire war sticky compounds.

The 2005 cars had 900 to 1000 hp (Honda) and even mass dampers (Renault).

Even more, the V10s didn't just have more power (and peak power only counts at Indy and Monza), but, more importantly they had vs. the V8s (considerably) better smoothness-drivebility, witch is no 1. in terms of importance (yes it comes ahead/way-ahead of peak power in creating the lap time; except for Monza and Indy).

A driver simply won't be able do miracles and brake the laws of physics. The cars will need both engine drivebility and power that the V8s won't/can't provide, sticky tires, and 2004 levels of downforce, to surpass the V10s.

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You can have more teams without customer cars, there are enough people who want to invest and enough drivers who want to stay/come in

Well yes and no - but bear in mind the $50 million bond the teams have to put up and the need to change the concorde agreement, it is actually very hard for a new team to come in. Over the last few years there has been a net loss.

The other thing is to get from nothing to a competitive platform is v.difficult, huge investment in staff, infrastructure, etc. So realistically its no surprise that it is the big manufacturers who can only afford to do it: Honda bought BAR, Toyota bought Tyrell, Renault bought Benetton, BMW bought Sauber. How many new teams have come in on their own (without support from another organisation (like Super Aguri/STR))?

Prost, Forti, Pacific, Simtek - all no more. Forti was so uncompetitive that this brought in the 107% rule.

Finally new teams have to get agreement from FIA/existing teams to come in and this means diluting prize winnings/changing the finishing order which they don't want to do.

So in theory whilst there is demand, most teams like Prodrive will find it difficult unless they can get the headstart of an existing engine/chassis, etc.

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Well yes and no - but bear in mind the $50 million bond the teams have to put up and the need to change the concorde agreement, it is actually very hard for a new team to come in. Over the last few years there has been a net loss.

The other thing is to get from nothing to a competitive platform is v.difficult, huge investment in staff, infrastructure, etc. So realistically its no surprise that it is the big manufacturers who can only afford to do it: Honda bought BAR, Toyota bought Tyrell, Renault bought Benetton, BMW bought Sauber. How many new teams have come in on their own (without support from another organisation (like Super Aguri/STR))?

Prost, Forti, Pacific, Simtek - all no more. Forti was so uncompetitive that this brought in the 107% rule.

Finally new teams have to get agreement from FIA/existing teams to come in and this means diluting prize winnings/changing the finishing order which they don't want to do.

So in theory whilst there is demand, most teams like Prodrive will find it difficult unless they can get the headstart of an existing engine/chassis, etc.

I see what your saying, but looking at one guys profile a few days ago(he was planing on buying out SA or Spyker) He had enough connections and cash to make the team in F1. Obviously it will not be sucessful in the first few seasons but eventually could be... People who enter F1 do it for the glory and brand image rather than cash. They allready have enough if they can buy a team...

Prodrive, i have a feeling is running out of cash, which they haden't thought about earlier, i don't think its very financially stable... And quite a few sponsers will now back out...

And for support, Ferrari, BMW, Mclaren are available. But only one car manufacturers, IMO, can enter without support is Porsche/Audi/VW (whichever brand they choose)

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All eyes on VW

03/12/2007

Having 'lost' Sebastian Vettel and Timo Glock, the latest 'defection' from BMW could have a far more significant effect on Formula One.

Former F1 and SportsCar star, Hans-Joachim Stuck, has been appointed 'Motorsport Representative' for Volkswagen, the fourth biggest automobile manufacturer in the world.

Having been associated with BMW for as long as anyone can remember, Stuck's appointment at VW, part of the Volkswagen Group, which also owns Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti, is sure to rekindle talk of the German manufacturer entering F1.

Stuck, who attended the BMW Motorsport Party in Munich at the weekend, begins his new job on January 1.

Only last week, Bernie Ecclestone admitted that while he was not happy with the return of customer cars, he would be delighted to see more manufacturers entering the sport, and they don't come much bigger than VW.

Definitely one to watch.

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Would be great to have VW in F1!

If we can't have good old small teams, at least give us some great manufacturers!

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Dof could you send me a pm on how to do that???

Yeah VW/audi would be a great addition

They could come under various of their brands:

VW, Audi, SEAT,

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