F1 Spy Rows Set To Reach Climax

[DOF_power 0]

F1 spy rows set to reach climax

Renault are facing a fine or

a ban if found guilty of spying

Formula One's spying scandal will come under the spotlight again on Thursday when the sport's governing body meets to discuss two separate cases.

Renault will appear before the FIA on Thursday to answer a charge of unauthorised possession of confidential McLaren technical data.

The French team deny the information was used in their 2007 car.

McLaren, who have been found guilty on a similar charge, face further scrutiny on Friday on the Ferrari controversy.

McLaren were fined

[elgo 1]

I've heard that Alonso's future could be decided today.He may have reached an agreement with Reno,for 2years. If the drivers don't get penalised he'll re-join the team.

[Max Mosley 2]

Sorry but I re-read the title of this thread, and what with Paul and Elgo's antics recently, I can't help but see it in a new light...

[elgo 1]

You dirty physicist... sending me porn by email...

[pabloh20 1]

Sorry but I re-read the title of this thread, and what with Paul and Elgo's antics recently, I can't help but see it in a new light...

There's no 'set to reach' about it

[Max Mosley 2]

You dirty physicist... sending me porn by email...

Oh come on Elgo, I only sent you that "DIY for dummies" video you asked for.....

[pabloh20 1]

You dirty physicist... sending me porn by email...

Yeah, that's disgusting, Muzza. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Elgo - send it on to me so I can see what sort of filth he's been sending you.

[pabloh20 1]

Oh come on Elgo, I only sent you that "DIY for dummies" video you asked for.....

Seen it.

[elgo 1]

Oh come on Elgo, I only sent you that "DIY for dummies" video you asked for.....

Yeah, that's disgusting, Muzza. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Elgo - send it on to me so I can see what sort of filth he's been sending you.

Seen it.

[Max Mosley 2]

Seen it.

Yup. Listen, I have a good supply. I make all my videos myself, so the lovin' is masterful! You can see a list of my titles here:

DIY for dummies

DIY for dummies 2

DIY for really slow learners

DIY for the impotent (this is a real tear-jerker)

DIY for the perverted

DIY in public

DIY with no hands

and coming soon to a pervert near you: DIY with a micropenis.

Did we scare her Paul?

[pabloh20 1]

Yup. Listen, I have a good supply. I make all my videos myself, so the lovin' is masterful! You can see a list of my titles here:

DIY for dummies

DIY for dummies 2

DIY for really slow learners

DIY for the impotent (this is a real tear-jerker)

DIY for the perverted

DIY in public

DIY with no hands

and coming soon to a pervert near you: DIY with a micropenis.

Did we scare her Paul?

If she wasn't before, she will be now!

[The Rumble Strip 0]

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

It seems Renault have been found guilty, yet have had no punishment imposed.

Cue another court case then.

<sigh>And how do the FIA justify that??? This is the thing that drives me mad with them. How can they be so inconsistent?

If I were McLaren I'd be talking to my lawyers about appealing the FIA's judgment as it surely puts the $100 million/points deduction, etc into question?

[Quiet One 15]

<sigh>And how do the FIA justify that??? This is the thing that drives me mad with them. How can they be so inconsistent?

If I were McLaren I'd be talking to my lawyers about appealing the FIA's judgment as it surely puts the $100 million/points deduction, etc into question?

The arguments seems to be "Renault gained no advantage from this knowledge". It's the same argument that let McLaren get scott free in the first hearings, until the e-mail exchange was disclosed.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

The arguments seems to be "Renault gained no advantage from this knowledge". It's the same argument that let McLaren get scott free in the first hearings, until the e-mail exchange was disclosed.

Ah true...

But I wonder if the FIA will do the same car inspection thing as for McLaren and also post dire warnings about what might happen in 2008 if any McLaren IPR is found on their cars?

Also, Renault are most likely to get off as they don't have a massively aggrieved driver who is willing to rat on them to FIA. (Unless Fisi does so??? Unlikely)

[spitfire 0]

SUPRISE SUPRISE SUPRISE. Renault found guilty of the same offence as Maca but No penalty for Renault.

the only diference between the two is that Renault did'nt challenge Ferrari for the championship!

SHAME ON F1 last season was nothing but a 2 bit soap opera.

SHAME ON F1 SHAME ON F1 SHAME ON F1

[Max Mosley 2]

The email exchanged did not prove McLaren got any advantage. At best they proved that Alonso and Pedro were willing to use the info in principle.

[Quiet One 15]

The email exchanged did not prove McLaren got any advantage. At best they proved that Alonso and Pedro were willing to use the info in principle.

I agree. We will have to wait until the full statement is released. All we have now are wild guesses.

If it is because they gained no advantage, then certainly a full inspection of the R28 should be made.

(My irrational side, though, is filled with joy...in your face, Ron! )

[cristiano84 0]

Ahhh..Finally FIArrari have taken their mask off.

Today the big farce that F.1 has become has written another sorry page.

New rule of the sporting code, art.151d: "You can spy if you want, but not against Ferrari"

Also a new rule will take place coming 2009, art.151e: "You can race if you like to do so, but only Ferrari are allowed to win"

[PSH 0]

Surprise ! Surprise!

Bernie's best mate gets off scott free !!

FIA not really biased are they.

Reno had the information - they were found guilty.

FIA do not have to prove an advantage was gained - so they should be punished similar to McLaren.

F1 is now a (bigger) laughing stock !!!!!!!!!!

[whiskee 0]

F1 is now a (bigger) laughing stock !!!!!!!!!!

Trut. I'm fed up with this whole farce. FIA themselves have done more damage to the sport than any team out there. I guess there are a handful of people to whom this makes some sense, but it's really difficult to explain why two teams found guilty of the same breach receive so different punishments.

Is there a "Max, time to quit" petition somewhere?

[Max Mosley 2]

There may be biiiig differences in what the teams actually did though. It's complicated.

You can't punish Renault to the same extent just become some idiot decides to spread McLaren designs everywhere. Problem with McLaren was that senior members of the team were discussing the illegal info and wondering if it was any use to them! They were trying to gain an advantage from it. Renault may not have tried to use the info they had.

[Quiet One 15]

There may be biiiig differences in what the teams actually did though. It's complicated.

You can't punish Renault to the same extent just become some idiot decides to spread McLaren designs everywhere. Problem with McLaren was that senior members of the team were discussing the illegal info and wondering if it was any use to them! They were trying to gain an advantage from it. Renault may not have tried to use the info they had.

*WARNING! WARNING! Still into the "wild guesses" area as nobody knows the fundaments of the FIA decision*

I think that McLaren's last minute amendments of their version really helped Renault (I was expecting someone to post here the many articles about that stupid affair, but it seems the Bild is the only media with some credibility around here )

AMcLaren has issued a statement clarifying the spy claims against Renault after the FIA asked the team to correct certain factual errors contained in a press briefing given on the team's behalf by one journalist concerning Renault.

The statement read as follows: In our briefing, we stated that there were 18 witness statements from Renault employees admitting that they had viewed McLaren confidential information. To the extent that this implied that 18 different Renault employees admitted viewing McLaren confidential information it was inaccurate. 13 Renault F1 employees provided 18 witness statements and 9 of them have so far admitted they viewed and discussed the confidential technical information belonging to McLaren.

We stated that the confidential information on computer disks was uploaded onto 11 Renault computers. This is not accurate. Mr Mackereth copied information onto 11 computer disks. The information on these 11 computer disks was uploaded by Renault IT staff in September 2006 onto Renault's T: drive and then transferred by Mr Mackereth to his personal home directory stored on Renault's network server. A back up copy of the material on Mr Mackereth's personal directory was made onto an unknown number of Renault's back up servers/tapes.

Our briefing could have been interpreted as suggesting that the Renault employees who admitted sight of McLaren Confidential Information all viewed it on computer screens.

Only Mr Mackereth and Mr Hardie admit viewing McLaren Confidential Information on Mr Mackereth's computer. The other seven employees who have admitted seeing McLaren Confidential Information admit seeing it in the form of computer print outs or hard copy documents.

We said that the information on the 11 computer disks taken by Mr Mackereth included 780 individual drawings.

This was an error. The information taken by Mr Mackereth on floppy disks, in hard copy form and by email amounts to 762 pages when printed out. The 11 computer disks included 18 individual technical drawings. Mr Mackereth also admits that he took hard copy drawings of McLaren's dampers.

We said that the McLaren information amounted to the "entire technical blueprint of the 2006 and 2007 McLaren car".

This requires clarification. The position is that, the McLaren drawings plus the information in a confidential MP4 - 22A Specification document taken by Mr Mackereth constitute a technical definition of the fundamental layout of the 2007 McLaren car and the technical details of its innovative and performance enhancing systems.

The bolded one is the one that counts. "A technical definition of the funamental layout of the 2007 McLaren and the techincal details of its innovative and performance enhancing systems". It sounds to me that all that Renault had was a silouhette of the MP4-22, perhaps with a detail of where the sponsor logos would be placed. A "fundamental layout" is not the same as having a detailed account of where each bolt and piece is placed.

Again, just a theory, and lots of dissing against McLaren just because I like being unfair. On a less personal note, I still think Renault shouldn't have got away with this unpunished. A punishment should have been dictated, even if not a U$S 100M one.

[Jean Todt 4]

*WARNING! WARNING! Still into the "wild guesses" area as nobody knows the fundaments of the FIA decision*

I think that McLaren's last minute amendments of their version really helped Renault (I was expecting someone to post here the many articles about that stupid affair, but it seems the Bild is the only media with some credibility around here )

The bolded one is the one that counts. "A technical definition of the funamental layout of the 2007 McLaren and the techincal details of its innovative and performance enhancing systems". It sounds to me that all that Renault had was a silouhette of the MP4-22, perhaps with a detail of where the sponsor logos would be placed. A "fundamental layout" is not the same as having a detailed account of where each bolt and piece is placed.

Again, just a theory, and lots of dissing against McLaren just because I like being unfair. On a less personal note, I still think Renault shouldn't have got away with this unpunished. A punishment should have been dictated, even if not a U$S 100M one.

they wont, since Biatore always agrees with what the FIA says, and he sleeps with Bernie more these days, so it is become a family affair now. If Mclaren were punished for on of its employee having another team information illegally in his house, what the **** should be done to a team having its rival's information in its office computer? Let it be anything, it could be even Ron Dennis's collection of porn with Mclaren registered Trademark on it. So Renault are going to sue Mclaren for having their data illegally?

[goferrarigo 0]

Ahhh..Finally FIArrari have taken their mask off.

Today the big farce that F.1 has become has written another sorry page.

New rule of the sporting code, art.151d: "You can spy if you want, but not against Ferrari"

Also a new rule will take place coming 2009, art.151e: "You can race if you like to do so, but only Ferrari are allowed to win"

If this farce is soo big, why do u care about the sport... Just stop watching...

The bolded one is the one that counts. "A technical definition of the funamental layout of the 2007 McLaren and the techincal details of its innovative and performance enhancing systems". It sounds to me that all that Renault had was a silouhette of the MP4-22, perhaps with a detail of where the sponsor logos would be placed. A "fundamental layout" is not the same as having a detailed account of where each bolt and piece is placed.

Again, just a theory, and lots of dissing against McLaren just because I like being unfair. On a less personal note, I still think Renault shouldn't have got away with this unpunished. A punishment should have been dictated, even if not a U$S 100M one.

Yes i think their should have been a punishment, but Reno lost more from the previous year than Mclaren did. Last Year they finished 1st and this year they were effectively 4th(actually 3rd). So they have actually deproved with the cheating rather than gain. But i still state my stand that they should have been punished but not that harshly...