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Mclarens Problems Hamilton's Fault?

Do You Agree That McLaren's Problems during 2007 were down to Lewis Hamilton?   46 members have voted

  1. 1. Do You Agree That McLaren's Problems during 2007 were down to Lewis Hamilton?

    • Yes
      21
    • No
      26
  2. 2. Do You Support Fernando Alonso

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      29

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91 posts in this topic


No,yes,no.

The 3rd one being the answer to: is 5x3+4x2-9x=7 a quadratic equation?

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The person who put that idea forward was evidently rather stupid. As much as I dislike Lewis, I think his blame was mainly limited to being the initial trigger point of the Hungary qualifying fiasco. Apart from that, I think the teams problems stemmed from a mixture of poor driver management, and a lack of quality control over staff behaviour. Blaming one of the drivers would be easy, but the realistic fact is that the problems they caused the team where small drops in a pretty large ocean.

And yes, I do support Alonso although I don\'t see how that part is relevant because not all Alonso supporters blame Lewis for his bad season. I think a lot of the trouble Fernando had in 2007 was entirely of his own making.

Edited by Silver_Arrows

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The person who put that idea forward was evidently rather stupid. As much as I dislike Lewis, I think his blame was mainly limited to being the initial trigger point of the Hungary qualifying fiasco. Apart from that, I think the teams problems stemmed from a mixture of poor driver management, and a lack of quality control over staff behaviour. Blaming one of the drivers would be easy, but the realistic fact is that the problems they caused the team where small drops in a pretty large ocean.

And yes, I do support Alonso although I don\'t see how that part is relevant because not all Alonso supporters blame Lewis for his bad season. I think a lot of the trouble Fernando had in 2007 was entirely of his own making.

:thbup: my sentiments, exactly.

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No, "problems" at McLaren were not Hamilton's fault and yes, in as much as there were problems in McLaren, I support Alonso.

Hamilton and Alonso have had more of an impact on McLaren because of their good performance on the track than because of anything else.

If neither one of them had been in McLaren, McLaren would still have been spying and lying and cheating... because THAT is how the team works under RD's management... because that is what RD has sadly become, a man with more ambition than competence, with more conceit than integrity, with more arrogance than skill...

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What Maure?

They came out with it, This hurt Ron Dennis no end because he is so passionate about his team.

you are talking out of your a##

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yes and no

now I'm not saying it was Hamilton's fault but I think having him there Ron thought he was untouchable. Even in 06 it was, "OMG Look at Hamilton, He is the Bestz EVAR!!!!!!!. I Luvz Him so much" from pretty much everybody in the media. And I think Ron got the idea that b/c Hami was the love interest of the media he could get away with things. Well it turned out he couldn't. I don't think that would have been the case if Hamilton was not at Merc. Think of it, before the scandal broke Max was saying he would love to see Hami win it. When your Ron I think its easy to take it as Max saying he would have his back.

Now I don't think Hami did anything, I am just saying that I think He was one of the reasons things turned out the way they did. Had he not been there I think Ron would have not tried to cover it up as much.

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The person who put that idea forward was evidently rather stupid. As much as I dislike Lewis, I think his blame was mainly limited to being the initial trigger point of the Hungary qualifying fiasco. Apart from that, I think the teams problems stemmed from a mixture of poor driver management, and a lack of quality control over staff behaviour. Blaming one of the drivers would be easy, but the realistic fact is that the problems they caused the team where small drops in a pretty large ocean.

And yes, I do support Alonso although I don\'t see how that part is relevant because not all Alonso supporters blame Lewis for his bad season. I think a lot of the trouble Fernando had in 2007 was entirely of his own making.

Indeed

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If neither one of them had been in McLaren, McLaren would still have been spying and lying and cheating... because THAT is how the team works under RD's management... because that is what RD has sadly become, a man with more ambition than competence, with more conceit than integrity, with more arrogance than skill...

I knew you'd somehow squeeze in a dig at Ron in your reply :rolleyes:

No and No for me

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What Maure?

They came out with it, This hurt Ron Dennis no end because he is so passionate about his team.

you are talking out of your a##

McLaren is guilty of spying, cheating, lying because it has spied, cheated, and lied.

McLaren has spied, cheated, and lied because of how it is managed.

Perhaps your own passion about RD's passion makes it ok in your eyes to lie and steal... but it does not change the fact that RD has cheated and lied to "no end", dragging the entire team long-wise through a river of stinking sht.

I knew you'd somehow squeeze in a dig at Ron in your reply :rolleyes:

Just like I knew you (or similarly afflicted folk) would somehow try to whistle the mess away from RD.

In any case, what do you (or any other sane person) expect when talking about responsibilities over McLaren's catastrophic season?

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Just like I knew you (or similarly afflicted folk) would somehow try to whistle the mess away from RD.

Afflicted!

I sometimes marvel at your use of language - Oh well, at least being afflicted (with whatever) is not as bad as being labeled a Jihadist

:lol:

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First question is hard to answer -- I did not really want to put yes or no, but in the end i put yes. While Hamilton was not sole reason for problems he did have huge part in it. The way first question was presented however kinda implies 100% No answer which i had to rebel against as he was no angel.

Second question -- i am no Alonso fan, i do think he needs to work on his outside track perfomance a lot. I do not hate him either altough.

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Maure.

Ron may be the team principal (and he has accepted Responsibility) but he didn't know what was happening behind his back, its impossible to know every little detail of 800 odd employees that McLaren have.

Don't say this is what Ron has become a cheater, because it wasn't him that went behind his own company it was Mike Coughlan, Ron has nothing to do with the design of the McLaren.

He was going to defend till prooven guilty like they do on Judge Judy.

And don't doubt the skill of Ron Dennis, He has more skill on his Toe Nail than what you do in your Brain.

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Afflicted!

I sometimes marvel at your use of language - Oh well, at least being afflicted (with whatever) is not as bad as being labeled a Jihadist

:lol:

Afflicted, indeed, with the need to try to whistle the mess away from RD.

Be we all marvelled at that... affliction.

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Ron may be the team principal (and he has accepted Responsibility) but he didn't know what was happening behind his back, its impossible to know every little detail of 800 odd employees that McLaren have.

As has been said, RD's involvement has gone from probable to extremely likely... in fact, it is nearly impossible that he didn't know, if not from the go, from the moment the sht hit the fan.

Don't say this is what Ron has become a cheater, because it wasn't him that went behind his own company it was Mike Coughlan, Ron has nothing to do with the design of the McLaren.

Or MC did what he did following RD's orders or with RD's consent and blessing or... who's to say if Nigel Stepney himself was not promised a position in McLaren... the money trail might just pop up the day after tomorrow.

He was going to defend till prooven guilty like they do on Judge Judy.

And RD's defense has involved lying through his teeth... so that not only he stole from Ferrari but lied about it too.

And don't doubt the skill of Ron Dennis, He has more skill on his Toe Nail than what you do in your Brain.

Well, you don't doubt anything about RD... even after such abysmal season for McLaren, something that is irrevocable proof of exactly "what you do in your Brain".

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You seriously think that Ron Dennis gave Coughlan orders to steal another teams data?

Put your crack pipe down mate

Edited by Silver_Arrows

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X2 :D

+1 = 3 :D

No,yes,no.

The 3rd one being the answer to: is 5x3+4x2-9x=7 a quadratic equation?

:lol: Nerd! (Cubics are cute though.)

McLaren is guilty of spying, cheating, lying because it has spied, cheated, and lied.

:lol: I can't see anyone denying that in general, though the specifics of this case are unknown and therefore debatable. But there is at least as much evidence that Alonso did those things too, and people do seem to argue on that issue.

Edited by Murray Walker

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As has been said, RD's involvement has gone from probable to extremely likely... in fact, it is nearly impossible that he didn't know, if not from the go, from the moment the sht hit the fan.

Or MC did what he did following RD's orders or with RD's consent and blessing or... who's to say if Nigel Stepney himself was not promised a position in McLaren... the money trail might just pop up the day after tomorrow.

And RD's defense has involved lying through his teeth... so that not only he stole from Ferrari but lied about it too.

Well, you don't doubt anything about RD... even after such abysmal season for McLaren, something that is irrevocable proof of exactly "what you do in your Brain".

O.K Maure, your defense dosen't Make sense,

Your first Paragraph states that Ron extremely Likely that he didn't know about the Espionage scandal until It came to light at the British GP. (well that the way it seems to me the way you wrote it), Then you said in the second Paragraph that he was Giving Espionage orders to Mike Coughlan and that he may have offered Nigel Stepney a role in McLaren.

Now wouldn't that have been during/Before the espionage that Ron Dennis didn't know about till the British Gp?

Maure you have lost me.

Oh and what do I do in my Brain?

I think of ways to defend Mark Webber.

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As much as I disagree with Alonso and his part in Spygate, I personally feel that practically any driver on the grid would have acted in the same way, even (shock horror) the Ferrari drivers. Formula 1 drivers want a car that goes faster than their competitors, and they want to win. Schumacher acted in the same way, except he did his cheating on the track, yet most of his fans defend him. Alonso was acting in the same manner, except he didn\'t do it on the track, and I have came to the conclusion that F1 drivers are competitive animals and they will do anything to win. Alonso is not alone in that.

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As much as I disagree with Alonso and his part in Spygate, I personally feel that practically any driver on the grid would have acted in the same way, even (shock horror) the Ferrari drivers. Formula 1 drivers want a car that goes faster than their competitors, and they want to win. Schumacher acted in the same way, except he did his cheating on the track, yet most of his fans defend him. Alonso was acting in the same manner, except he didn\'t do it on the track, and I have came to the conclusion that F1 drivers are competitive animals and they will do anything to win. Alonso is not alone in that.

ah ok, out of left field :D !

Alonso has also done this at Renault with Fisichella at China in 06 afterwards he said he felt alone and Betrayed at Renault, But don't forget, He did still finish infront of Fisi in that Race anyways.

So Alonso can whinge over the tiniest little things and next season his has Hot Blooded Latino Nelson Piquet.

This could easily be Piquet and Nando Next season!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXbGDcMeo8...feature=related

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