Kimi Raikkonen

[Dawn 0]

Yeah. Now that I've got used to it, I'm quite sympathetic to Fed Up's theory that Kimi was gifted the title as a PR-friendly way to penalise McLaren, Hamilton and possibly Alonso for cheating/lying. We can safely say Max wanted to prevent McLaren winning the WDC, but couldn't do it openly - motive. Clearly McLaren were at his mercy in private - means. With so many races left he and the teams had ample time to engineer a result - opportunity. Not only that but the bizarre way that Hamilton and possibly Alonso narrowly lost the WDC is circumstantial evidence. I don't remember any team making so many mistakes as McLaren made in the final few races: staying out too long on patently dead tyres, a weird gearbox glitch (with no meaningful explanation given) that miraculously righted itself and then worked perfectly, Nando being amazingly far off the pace in Brazil etc. If this theory is true, for once I'd agree that Max's behaviour really is shameful.

[Max Mosley 2]

I'm fine:

Well, it's a conspiracy theory I admit, but sometimes conspiracies are right! (After all Andres you believe in the Iraq war oil conspiracy. ) I mean before this season lots of fans thought F1 teams always told the truth. Now we know differently, but perhaps the FIA is regarded as less likely to lie? Well, I reckon we can say for sure they do lie, or at least bend the truth to meet their aims.

[Quiet One 15]

I am not sure to which Iraq war oil conspiracy you refer I do believe oil played a big part in that war, but I also think that many other factors influenced it.

Here is what I do to test a conspiracy theory:

1) They of course tend to give a simple explanation to something we do not fully understand. In this case, Macca losing the WDC that was practically theirs (sorry, Kimi fans, but this would come up some day )

2) Now, try to imagine all the persons involved. Would they accept it? Would it be kept in secret? Like the Roswell aliens. Somebody said that whoever believes that a gossipy city like Washington D.C. could keep something like that a secret during so many administrations certainly deserves the UFOs.

3) Apply this to last season. Do you really think nobody will go to the press the second Kimi won? That Nando would not go all Rambo on Woking just for that? Of course, you might add another conspiracy theory. The "RD gagged Nando by means of some spurious agreement". Frankly, do you think Nando would keep his mouth shut for long?

Sorry, but I think there is no conspiracy theory. I believe they can be THAT stupid. Never underestimate the power of imbecility.

[Rainmaster 7]

Thanks for the interview Boudica

As for conspiracies, I'm not convinced, there are simply too many factors and things which you can't control, so I don't see how you can engineer a title in the last few races.

[hawkins11 0]

If you are suggesting the FIA told Mclaren to lose the championship why would they appeal the Fuel temp's of the BMW and Willaims??

I do feel its very strange that Lewis car cut out in Brazil but as Hungry showed there's no way Lewis would follow team orders that cost him points. If you look at the season as a whole it was very even and Kimi just got there.

[Jean Todt 4]

If you are suggesting the FIA told Mclaren to lose the championship why would they appeal the Fuel temp's of the BMW and Willaims??

I do feel its very strange that Lewis car cut out in Brazil but as Hungry showed there's no way Lewis would follow team orders that cost him points. If you look at the season as a whole it was very even and Kimi just got there.

it was me who put sugar cubes inside Lewis's gas tank.

[Max Mosley 2]

3) Apply this to last season. Do you really think nobody will go to the press the second Kimi won? That Nando would not go all Rambo on Woking just for that? Of course, you might add another conspiracy theory. The "RD gagged Nando by means of some spurious agreement". Frankly, do you think Nando would keep his mouth shut for long?

Good points. At the end of the day, in this conspiracy it's McLaren who lose out, so I think Nando might well go along with the FIA's alleged plan. And it's not clear to me how many people would have to know. Perhaps only one programmer, Lewis and the senior management at McLaren (Nando's situation is not so clear in this theory).

As for conspiracies, I'm not convinced, there are simply too many factors and things which you can't control, so I don't see how you can engineer a title in the last few races.

I reckon it could certainly be attempted. You can't guarantee it, but you can make it pretty likely you get the result you want. After all, when under no pressure the Ferraris are almost certain to get 18 points between them, and through careful management of your worn tyres (Lewis), gearbox glitches (Lewis), slow pace (Nando) and unusual strategy and semi-slow pace (Lewis) you have a pretty good chance of only getting the points you (don't) need.

If you are suggesting the FIA told Mclaren to lose the championship why would they appeal the Fuel temp's of the BMW and Willaims??

Well, we never know what is really going on in F1 behind closed doors. Clearly an appeal might cause embarrassment for the FIA, and so it might well have been in McLaren's interests to use it to put some pressure on them.

I do feel its very strange that Lewis car cut out in Brazil but as Hungry showed there's no way Lewis would follow team orders that cost him points. If you look at the season as a whole it was very even and Kimi just got there.

But I think that was a very different situation. It's one thing trying to beat Alonso in the WDC through any means necessary, it's another thing when the FIA and your team have arranged the WDC for (and probably with) you.

Your post is a good one, but just thinking some more about it, there were of course many times Lewis did follow team orders that potentially cost him points. And I always urge caution when saying whoever has the highest points was a worthy WDC. The difference in the cars over the season was more than the few points separating the top drivers, so any meaningful comparison is extremely difficult.

[Fed up 0]

Thanks for the interview Boudica

As for conspiracies, I'm not convinced, there are simply too many factors and things which you can't control, so I don't see how you can engineer a title in the last few races.

Apart from Lewis's pit strategy in Fuji - Have you ever seen an F1 car competing in a race with tyres as worn as on Lewis car?

- The gearbox glitch and the Mclaren race strategy in Brazil was designed to ensure Lewis didn't get anywhere near 5th position

- Explain nando's loss of half a second per lap (to Lewis) in the race

- Why did Mclaren appeal against the BMW & Williams fuel when F1 rules are clear that such an appeal would be inadmissable

- Why did it take a week for the FIA to rule the appeal inadmissible

- Why is Max on record in stating that 'the right man' won the WDC

- What do you think would have happened if Lewis/Nando had won the WDC in a car that was an obvious clone of the Ferrari

- What did Ron mean when he said in Fuji that they were racing Nando - It was a ruse and a lot of people fell for it - Ron has hundreds of years of experience in F1 and he knew that every driver with mathematical chance of winning the WDC was a threat. To say the team were racing Nando was designed to incite an emotional response. Most f1 fans forgot about Kimi as they were busy accusing Ron of bias.

I could go on and on, but Lewis' body language and that of the Mclaren team is not consistent with the magnitude of their loss! It's like nothings happened.

It'll take lateral thinking to grasp this.

[Quiet One 15]

Good points. At the end of the day, in this conspiracy it's McLaren who lose out, so I think Nando might well go along with the FIA's alleged plan. And it's not clear to me how many people would have to know. Perhaps only one programmer, Lewis and the senior management at McLaren (Nando's situation is not so clear in this theory).

I reckon it could certainly be attempted. You can't guarantee it, but you can make it pretty likely you get the result you want. After all, when under no pressure the Ferraris are almost certain to get 18 points between them, and through careful management of your worn tyres (Lewis), gearbox glitches (Lewis), slow pace (Nando) and unusual strategy and semi-slow pace (Lewis) you have a pretty good chance of only getting the points you (don't) need.

Well, we never know what is really going on in F1 behind closed doors. Clearly an appeal might cause embarrassment for the FIA, and so it might well have been in McLaren's interests to use it to put some pressure on them.

But I think that was a very different situation. It's one thing trying to beat Alonso in the WDC through any means necessary, it's another thing when the FIA and your team have arranged the WDC for (and probably with) you.

Your post is a good one, but just thinking some more about it, there were of course many times Lewis did follow team orders that potentially cost him points. And I always urge caution when saying whoever has the highest points was a worthy WDC. The difference in the cars over the season was more than the few points separating the top drivers, so any meaningful comparison is extremely difficult.

Heh, I knew you are too bright to just follow any crappy conspiracy theory. You answres are all possible, of course. Just like the theory itself.

My problem with these theories is that you need to put so many assumptions on them, that finally it ends up being even more unbelievable than the "they just acted stupidly" theory

You need to assume that:

1) They could devise such a plot with so many variables in such a short time. What if Kimi's Ferrari broke down? What if one of the drivers (FA, LH, FM) decided to disobey? What if the other teams (which were not involved) failed to beat Nando or Lewis? They needed to finish in specific positions to lose the championship. You could say they could have ended up below those positions, but that would have been too suspicious, right?

2) Ron Dennis and the others involved would really accept looking like stupid for losing a championship they had practically won. A glitch on the Macca at a critical time? Lewis presing the wrong button? Nando racing as if he was on a Spyker? This is PR friendly? What would have been so bad about the other option as to accept all this humiliation?

3) Whatever the other option was, it should be so awful for everybody involved as to justify it. RD being kicked out might have convinced him of accepting it. It would not have convinced Nando, which I doubt would have cared too much about Ron's fate at the time.

4) You could say that Nando didn't know. They just sabotaged his car and watched him limp to the finish line. But, then again, I doubt Nando wouldn't have suspected in such case. And, if he supsected anything, we would have surely known.

5) Finally, Lewis (yes, just like Nando) is a monster of arrogance and obviously suffers the same problem of verbal incontinence. He would have hinted something, just like Massa couldn't help but hint that he let Kimi win, whether it was true or not. Their egos just don't allow them to keep these things secret. Gee, it was their egos that brought this mess up in the first place!

[Rainmaster 7]

Well I don't buy it sorry I mean I can remember that there were three drivers racing each other in close formation, it was for fourth or third perhaps, it was Kubica, Rosberg and someone else (can't be bothered to check). Basically at one point they were very close to taking each other out, I think at one stage there was contact between two of them which allowed Rosberg through. Anyway my point is (not a very well made one), what if two of them had taken each other out, Alonso would've gained two positions, what I am struggling to say is that you can't control all these external factors which, along with a lot of other things, makes it higly unlikely.

Even with my lateral thinking cap on I find it easier to believe in stupidity than extreme intelligence, cunning and plotting on the part of Mclaren/FIA/whoever, I suppose that says a lot about my faith in the human race.

In short I find this theory possible, but not plausible.

[goferrarigo 0]

Heh, I knew you are too bright to just follow any crappy conspiracy theory. You answres are all possible, of course. Just like the theory itself.

My problem with these theories is that you need to put so many assumptions on them, that finally it ends up being even more unbelievable than the "they just acted stupidly" theory

You need to assume that:

1) They could devise such a plot with so many variables in such a short time. What if Kimi's Ferrari broke down? What if one of the drivers (FA, LH, FM) decided to disobey? What if the other teams (which were not involved) failed to beat Nando or Lewis? They needed to finish in specific positions to lose the championship. You could say they could have ended up below those positions, but that would have been too suspicious, right?

2) Ron Dennis and the others involved would really accept looking like stupid for losing a championship they had practically won. A glitch on the Macca at a critical time? Lewis presing the wrong button? Nando racing as if he was on a Spyker? This is PR friendly? What would have been so bad about the other option as to accept all this humiliation?

3) Whatever the other option was, it should be so awful for everybody involved as to justify it. RD being kicked out might have convinced him of accepting it. It would not have convinced Nando, which I doubt would have cared too much about Ron's fate at the time.

4) You could say that Nando didn't know. They just sabotaged his car and watched him limp to the finish line. But, then again, I doubt Nando wouldn't have suspected in such case. And, if he supsected anything, we would have surely known.

5) Finally, Lewis (yes, just like Nando) is a monster of arrogance and obviously suffers the same problem of verbal incontinence. He would have hinted something, just like Massa couldn't help but hint that he let Kimi win, whether it was true or not. Their egos just don't allow them to keep these things secret. Gee, it was their egos that brought this mess up in the first place!

Well to take a very sad/bad view on teh whole case. For a buisness they could organise thia and it would help.

Now to answer how this could work(i don't think it happened, just so i can enjoy the next races);

Key Asumptions: Everything, i mean all teams/drivers are in the loop on what is too happen and is in command by the Fia. The whole thing is a show, a nice old circus show. Again i stress that i don't believe it is true/what happened, but for arguments sake:

1) Alonso was told he would have charges pressed upon him in civil court for stealing infomation (named as a user of stolen infomation). Or he would be dishonorable stripped of his titles for x reason or another. So he had to keep his mouth shut.

2) Ron/Mclaren were told they would be Dqed next season or face suspension or stripped of all points in 2008 if they do not cooperate. Why do you think they made a public apology??

3)Read 1

4)Nando did cry abt his car being sabotaged earlier, if you remember...

5) Hamilton was told to play by the rules or be chucked out...

6) if other cars crashed into each other. They would have had an extra pitstop as the tyres were not heating up properly...

Again i do not believe this theory just for the heck of it having a discussion...

[HandyNZL 1]

Next y'all be saying that George Dubya flew the planes into the towers, Lee Harvey Oswald was watching a movie when JFK was shot, man never walked on the moon, crop circles are made by aliens that have Chinese looking symbol shaped thrusters on their spacecraft, and that Colonel Mustard did it in the lounge with the candlestick.

Sheesh...

[goferrarigo 0]

Next y'all be saying that George Dubya flew the planes into the towers, Lee Harvey Oswald was watching a movie when JFK was shot, man never walked on the moon, crop circles are made by aliens that have Chinese looking symbol shaped thrusters on their spacecraft, and that Colonel Mustard did it in the lounge with the candlestick.

Sheesh...

I believe all of it. Especially the chinese part. Those damn Chinese manufacture for aliens as well...

[Ash1 0]

A win tally doesn't say the whole story. Add a few years to you and you'll realize that.

A few years from now, who will remember what could have been. But everyone will sure remember that Kimi was world champion in 2008. And what a worthy champion he is.

The other garble won't count for anything!

[Fed up 0]

I'll ask the doubters to ponder one last question on this issue;

What would have happened if Lewis/Nando had won the WDC and then the FIA adjudged the Mclaren a clone of the Ferrari. Do you think Ferrari would have accepted the result? How can an illegal car win the wdc? If the car was disqualified, it cant then win the WDC! Ferrari would have successfully challenged the result in a court of Law and the FIA would not have had a leg to stand on. If you accept that Mclaren lied and their car was littered with Ferrari IP how would it have been fair for said car to then win the WDC.

If we are honest to ourselves and put our allegiances to one side, a Mclaren WDC would have been wrong as their car was illegal. The drivers should have been disqualified when the car was excluded - that was the only course of action that made sense. For the FIA to choose the course they did was only there for the show. The eventual outcome ensured the sport retained it's audience and avoided a damaging court case.

Just my take

[Max Mosley 2]

My problem with these theories is that you need to put so many assumptions on them, that finally it ends up being even more unbelievable than the "they just acted stupidly" theory

Yeah both theories are possible. I'm not sure how likely each one is, but it's an interesting conspiracy theory as it's surely much more likely than such theories usually are. Max had motive, means and opportunity, and there's at least circumstantial evidence in the many, many bizarre events, plus the fact that we know that Max lies anyway.

1) They could devise such a plot with so many variables in such a short time. What if Kimi's Ferrari broke down? What if one of the drivers (FA, LH, FM) decided to disobey? What if the other teams (which were not involved) failed to beat Nando or Lewis? They needed to finish in specific positions to lose the championship. You could say they could have ended up below those positions, but that would have been too suspicious, right?

To me, Nando's pace/attitude and Lewis's myriad problems were pretty suspicious anyway! It's not possible to guarantee that the plan would work, I admit, but these days I reckon they can plan out the race to extreme accuracy using computer models. If no one was racing hard as I'm suggesting (and remember that this doesn't necessarily mean they all knew what might have been going on), it's highly unlikely that there would have been any reliability issues messing up the FIA's alleged plan. As George says the big difficulty is if some other drivers crash. In any unforeseen circumstances I think Lewis (or Nando) might have had a recurrence of the mysterious gearbox glitch, or had to make a quick splash and dash, or perhaps Max would have accepted the judgement of the Gods.

2) Ron Dennis and the others involved would really accept looking like stupid for losing a championship they had practically won. A glitch on the Macca at a critical time? Lewis presing the wrong button? Nando racing as if he was on a Spyker? This is PR friendly? What would have been so bad about the other option as to accept all this humiliation?

Well Max could inflict any punishment he wanted I guess. They were threatened with complete disqualification for 2 years, or the fine could have been even larger.

3) Whatever the other option was, it should be so awful for everybody involved as to justify it. RD being kicked out might have convinced him of accepting it. It would not have convinced Nando, which I doubt would have cared too much about Ron's fate at the time.

Yeah but Nando's behaviour was just weird all round. I don't understand how he could have so pathetic an attitude either way. And again, I tend to think that if he were told by the FIA to do something, even Nando would probably do it.

4) You could say that Nando didn't know. They just sabotaged his car and watched him limp to the finish line. But, then again, I doubt Nando wouldn't have suspected in such case. And, if he supsected anything, we would have surely known.

Yeah! But as Ankit said, Alonso did seem to have his suspicions.

5) Finally, Lewis (yes, just like Nando) is a monster of arrogance and obviously suffers the same problem of verbal incontinence. He would have hinted something, just like Massa couldn't help but hint that he let Kimi win, whether it was true or not. Their egos just don't allow them to keep these things secret. Gee, it was their egos that brought this mess up in the first place!

Verbal incontinence is sure an epidemic in F1. But I still think Lewis would accept something if Ron and the FIA tell him to. Trying to trick Nando in open play (in Hungary) is different to accepting that your team has no option but to throw the WDC, to me anyway. As Fed Up says, Lewis and Nando might have known that they would lose their title anyway if Ferrari appealed after the season.

A few years from now, who will remember what could have been. But everyone will sure remember that Kimi was world champion in 2008. And what a worthy champion he is.

The other garble won't count for anything!

Probably but that's only true of the ignoramuses of the sport. Most sensible people know the WDC is as often as not meaningless anyway.

Just my take

One other thing. People here are always determined tend to give F1 the benefit of the doubt, but after last season we know that all the teams and drivers cheat and lie. We also know that F1 is always full of back-room deal-making and politicking. We furthermore know that Max, Bernie and the FIA all lie and are complicit in the teams and drivers' cheating. Anyone who thinks that we in the general public really know everything that happened in the Spygate affair must be very naive indeed. So it's not so far a stretch to consider Fed Up's theory imho.

[pabloh20 1]

Heh, I knew you are too bright to just follow any crappy conspiracy theory. You answres are all possible, of course. Just like the theory itself.

My problem with these theories is that you need to put so many assumptions on them, that finally it ends up being even more unbelievable than the "they just acted stupidly" theory

You need to assume that:

1) They could devise such a plot with so many variables in such a short time. What if Kimi's Ferrari broke down? What if one of the drivers (FA, LH, FM) decided to disobey? What if the other teams (which were not involved) failed to beat Nando or Lewis? They needed to finish in specific positions to lose the championship. You could say they could have ended up below those positions, but that would have been too suspicious, right?

2) Ron Dennis and the others involved would really accept looking like stupid for losing a championship they had practically won. A glitch on the Macca at a critical time? Lewis presing the wrong button? Nando racing as if he was on a Spyker? This is PR friendly? What would have been so bad about the other option as to accept all this humiliation?

3) Whatever the other option was, it should be so awful for everybody involved as to justify it. RD being kicked out might have convinced him of accepting it. It would not have convinced Nando, which I doubt would have cared too much about Ron's fate at the time.

4) You could say that Nando didn't know. They just sabotaged his car and watched him limp to the finish line. But, then again, I doubt Nando wouldn't have suspected in such case. And, if he supsected anything, we would have surely known.

5) Finally, Lewis (yes, just like Nando) is a monster of arrogance and obviously suffers the same problem of verbal incontinence. He would have hinted something, just like Massa couldn't help but hint that he let Kimi win, whether it was true or not. Their egos just don't allow them to keep these things secret. Gee, it was their egos that brought this mess up in the first place!

Ok, not that I believe the conspiracy theory in the slightest, but Iam just getting into the spirit of things!

1. Maybe it's a bit early & my brain isn't quite obeying me, yet, but would the drivers have to be involved? Surely, it could be done without them knowing and it would be the better option, because, as you say, drivers are ugly, cheating 'fatherless children' who can't keep their gobs shut. As for, controlling the race, well I suppose the Kimi breaking down scenario would have been the most inconvenient and impossible to overturn, depending on when he broke down of course, but most other results could probably be manufactured if need be.

2. As Ankit says, possibly the complete exclusion from 2007 & 2008 for non-compliance. Hey, I don't know, I'm just having fun!

3. Either the drivers didn't know, or they could have had their superlicence taken away for non-compliance.

4. If you have the FIA already involved, then it's probably easier to accept that you just haven't got the speed, not sabotage. Let's not forget that this happens quite a few times during the season throughout the pitlane - practice everything looks great, race throws a curve ball, it's not unheard of. Also, would Alonso actually care unless he had a real chance of winning?

5. Well, the driver's either didn't know, or were blackmailed into silence.

[pabloh20 1]

Right, now I am going to bat for the other side, purely because you had the indecency to post before me

Yeah both theories are possible. I'm not sure how likely each one is, but it's an interesting conspiracy theory as it's surely much more likely than such theories usually are. Max had motive, means and opportunity, and there's at least circumstantial evidence in the many, many bizarre events, plus the fact that we know that Max lies anyway.

Ok, how do we know that Max has the means? Surely, this is not something he could undertake by himself and so would need coperation from the other members of F1 and this is the real problem, for me. Just vecause Max wanted Ferrari to win or maybe has a vendetta against Ron doesn't mean that all of the FIA agrees with him. In that circumstance, I would expect an FIA member who had been 'overruled' to be the most likely source of a press leak.

To me, Nando's pace/attitude and Lewis's myriad problems were pretty suspicious anyway! It's not possible to guarantee that the plan would work, I admit, but these days I reckon they can plan out the race to extreme accuracy using computer models. If no one was racing hard as I'm suggesting (and remember that this doesn't necessarily mean they all knew what might have been going on), it's highly unlikely that there would have been any reliability issues messing up the FIA's alleged plan. As George says the big difficulty is if some other drivers crash. In any unforeseen circumstances I think Lewis (or Nando) might have had a recurrence of the mysterious gearbox glitch, or had to make a quick splash and dash, or perhaps Max would have accepted the judgement of the Gods.

Alonso's pace and Lewis's problems would not have raised an eyebrow in anything other than the last few races. Purely coincidence.

Well Max could inflict any punishment he wanted I guess. They were threatened with complete disqualification for 2 years, or the fine could have been even larger.

Max doesn't have that ultimate authority does he? It has to be WSMC, or WMSC, or whatever the hell thier acronym is, ratified, surely?

Yeah but Nando's behaviour was just weird all round. I don't understand how he could have so pathetic an attitude either way. And again, I tend to think that if he were told by the FIA to do something, even Nando would probably do it.

Yeah! But as Ankit said, Alonso did seem to have his suspicions.

Driver's will blame anything but themslelves.

Verbal incontinence is sure an epidemic in F1. But I still think Lewis would accept something if Ron and the FIA tell him to. Trying to trick Nando in open play (in Hungary) is different to accepting that your team has no option but to throw the WDC, to me anyway. As Fed Up says, Lewis and Nando might have known that they would lose their title anyway if Ferrari appealed after the season.

I don't think they would keep quiet. Realistically, what could you threaten RD or the drivers with? As soon as Max mentions fixing the Championship, then there are so many ways he could be incriminated and then he would be the one to lose it all.

Probably but that's only true of the ignoramuses of the sport. Most sensible people know the WDC is as often as not meaningless anyway.

It's always meaningless unless the driver you want to win it actually wins it and then it is a true test of driver skill

One other thing. People here are always determined tend to give F1 the benefit of the doubt, but after last season we know that all the teams and drivers cheat and lie. We also know that F1 is always full of back-room deal-making and politicking. We furthermore know that Max, Bernie and the FIA all lie and are complicit in the teams and drivers' cheating. Anyone who thinks that we in the general public really know everything that happened in the Spygate affair must be very naive indeed. So it's not so far a stretch to consider Fed Up's theory imho.

I don't give F1 the benefit of the doubt, but I am not a complete crackpot either. The reality is somewhere between the 2 extremes and that's where Andres and I are, well until I change sides again!

[Max Mosley 2]

Ok, not that I believe the conspiracy theory in the slightest, but Iam just getting into the spirit of things!

1. Maybe it's a bit early & my brain isn't quite obeying me, yet, but would the drivers have to be involved? Surely, it could be done without them knowing and it would be the better option, because, as you say, drivers are ugly, cheating 'fatherless children' who can't keep their gobs shut. As for, controlling the race, well I suppose the Kimi breaking down scenario would have been the most inconvenient and impossible to overturn, depending on when he broke down of course, but most other results could probably be manufactured if need be.

2. As Ankit says, possibly the complete exclusion from 2007 & 2008 for non-compliance. Hey, I don't know, I'm just having fun!

3. Either the drivers didn't know, or they could have had their superlicence taken away for non-compliance.

4. If you have the FIA already involved, then it's probably easier to accept that you just haven't got the speed, not sabotage. Let's not forget that this happens quite a few times during the season throughout the pitlane - practice everything looks great, race throws a curve ball, it's not unheard of. Also, would Alonso actually care unless he had a real chance of winning?

5. Well, the driver's either didn't know, or were blackmailed into silence.

Fantastic post! Keep up the good work.

Right, now I am going to bat for the other side, purely because you had the indecency to post before me

Ok, how do we know that Max has the means? Surely, this is not something he could undertake by himself and so would need coperation from the other members of F1 and this is the real problem, for me. Just vecause Max wanted Ferrari to win or maybe has a vendetta against Ron doesn't mean that all of the FIA agrees with him. In that circumstance, I would expect an FIA member who had been 'overruled' to be the most likely source of a press leak.

Alonso's pace and Lewis's problems would not have raised an eyebrow in anything other than the last few races. Purely coincidence.

Max doesn't have that ultimate authority does he? It has to be WSMC, or WMSC, or whatever the hell thier acronym is, ratified, surely?

Driver's will blame anything but themslelves.

I don't think they would keep quiet. Realistically, what could you threaten RD or the drivers with? As soon as Max mentions fixing the Championship, then there are so many ways he could be incriminated and then he would be the one to lose it all.

It's always meaningless unless the driver you want to win it actually wins it and then it is a true test of driver skill

I don't give F1 the benefit of the doubt, but I am not a complete crackpot either. The reality is somewhere between the 2 extremes and that's where Andres and I are, well until I change sides again!

What a load of BS. You are clearly a moron.

[pabloh20 1]

Fantastic post! Keep up the good work.

Why, thank you kind Sir.

What a load of BS. You are clearly a moron.

I hope you have diarrea diehorrhea diehardrear the wildies in lumps.

[Ash1 0]

Probably but that's only true of the ignoramuses of the sport. Most sensible people know the WDC is as often as not meaningless anyway.

Really?

"sensible people" - I'm certain you're one of them. As for me, I'm far from thr madding crowd

[Boudica 0]

If it was all a setup then why go about it so strangely. If Maclaren was meant to lose surely they could have done it in a better way. Maclaren had Monza, Spa, Fuji, Shanghai and Brazil to loose the championship in. So why do it in the last two races, when there is much more variables that could go wrong. And surely Ferrari could have demanded a better performance for themselves in Monza, and why send Ferrari to the back of the grid in monsoon Fuji? The chances that they wouldn't have been able to finish in Fuji would have been to great. If Maclaren wanted to loose the championship they could have done so steadily from Monza, and no one would have been the wiser.

[maure 1]

As far as "conspiracy theories" go, a McLaren fan friend of mine kept saying that the reason why Hamilton always had the favor of FIA's decisions was payoff. His view was that once FIA realized they had no choice but to go after McLaren, FIA decided to make amends with the team by giving them the DWC. After all, FIA did the impossible to let McLaren off the hook the first time around. Come second time around, we all know that the punishment of McLaren was quite harsh and _perhaps_ it makes some sense to think that FIA tried to make it up to them somehow.

Since RD blew the DWC and the team had nothing to call its own, my friend's theory may also explain why after McLaren latest lies, all they had to produce was "an appology letter and you are done" rather than the expulsion FIA had threatened them with.

Personally, I think that my friend's theory requires a degree of amicability/complicity between FIA and McLaren that I don't see anywhere. So I am not too keen. However, I have to admit that I find no other explanation for the free pass that Hamilton had last year. As the folks at F1Rejects.com said, it is difficult to understand how the otherwise draconian FIA race rulings were so systematically kind to Hamilton.

[Max Mosley 2]

I hope you have diarrea diehorrhea diehardrear the wildies in lumps.

Damn you.

If it was all a setup then why go about it so strangely. If Maclaren was meant to lose surely they could have done it in a better way. Maclaren had Monza, Spa, Fuji, Shanghai and Brazil to loose the championship in. So why do it in the last two races, when there is much more variables that could go wrong. And surely Ferrari could have demanded a better performance for themselves in Monza, and why send Ferrari to the back of the grid in monsoon Fuji? The chances that they wouldn't have been able to finish in Fuji would have been to great. If Maclaren wanted to loose the championship they could have done so steadily from Monza, and no one would have been the wiser.

It made better viewing this way; all drivers competed freely up to Brazil or Shanghai; some negotiations were still going on behind the scenes in Fuji/Monza. Your argument is aquaplaning off track in a shower of possibilities.

As far as "conspiracy theories" go, a McLaren fan friend of mine kept saying that the reason why Hamilton always had the favor of FIA's decisions was payoff. His view was that once FIA realized they had no choice but to go after McLaren, FIA decided to make amends with the team by giving them the DWC. After all, FIA did the impossible to let McLaren off the hook the first time around. Come second time around, we all know that the punishment of McLaren was quite harsh and _perhaps_ it makes some sense to think that FIA tried to make it up to them somehow.

Since RD blew the DWC and the team had nothing to call its own, my friend's theory may also explain why after McLaren latest lies, all they had to produce was "an appology letter and you are done" rather than the expulsion FIA had threatened them with.

Personally, I think that my friend's theory requires a degree of amicability/complicity between FIA and McLaren that I don't see anywhere. So I am not too keen. However, I have to admit that I find no other explanation for the free pass that Hamilton had last year. As the folks at F1Rejects.com said, it is difficult to understand how the otherwise draconian FIA race rulings were so systematically kind to Hamilton.

You have a friend McLaren fan friend? You must have some real humdingers.

Perhaps it was all a cover up? "Be extra kind to Hamilton so no one will ever suspect we are actually screwing him." Or perhaps they wanted to give him a moment of glory before stripping him of his title? Or perhaps he, and arguably his grudge match against the hairy midget, was (or will be) the main marketing tool for F1, given that many, many people around the world were specifically following him, and the controversy. Or perhaps most likely, it simply made for a better 'sporting' drama . "If we know McLaren will throw the title in the end, why not do it as dramatically as possible"? I can't imagine a more exciting climax to a season than Brazil 2007. If it was a piece of choreography, it was sheer brilliance.

[maure 1]

You have a friend McLaren fan friend? You must have some real humdingers.

He was the one that got me interested in the sport years back. I have a lot of respect for his opinion.

Perhaps it was all a cover up? "Be extra kind to Hamilton so no one will ever suspect we are actually screwing him." Or perhaps they wanted to give him a moment of glory before stripping him of his title? Or perhaps he, and arguably his grudge match against the hairy midget, was (or will be) the main marketing tool for F1, given that many, many people around the world were specifically following him, and the controversy. Or perhaps most likely, it simply made for a better 'sporting' drama . "If we know McLaren will throw the title in the end, why not do it as dramatically as possible"? I can't imagine a more exciting climax to a season than Brazil 2007. If it was a piece of choreography, it was sheer brilliance.

The truth is that I didn't see any screwing of Hamilton at the hands of FIA. None at all. Quite the opposite actually. We all saw Whiting somersaulting to give Hamilton an advantage every single time. Furhter, while FIA threatened to punish the drivers if they didn't collaborate with the investigation, they have in no way whatsoever pursued Hamilton _even_ after McLaren admitted to lying regarding how many knew of the spying at McLaren.

I can understand, however, your need to explain away, in no matter how far-fetched ways, the catastrophe that became Hamilton's challenge for the WC. What I cannot understand is how you think you are helping Hamilton when you are systematically searching for ways to validate his worst behaviour while blaming away his very own responsibilities.

As I said in the case of MS, there was no need to gift him Monza. The man can drive his own races. I strongly feel that Hamilton can win on his own and, if he didn't, is precisely because of all the meddling and hero-worshiping. In his case and on the last couple of races, I favor psychological explanations over conspiracy and driver error.