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la force supreme des mclaren

Lewis Suffers In Spain.

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Assuming we are talking the Lewis fight with Nando, surely the point is that Lewis didn't loose Nando the title nor are they even in the same team anymore meaning there is little or no point for such actions.

Of course! BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IDIOTS!

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Interesting thread with some rather skewed thinking. Or is that me? Murray's digging a great big hole for himself here and people are queueing up to fill it in after him. I don't agree with his views - far too simplified and borderline numbskull. What's racism all about? Is it calling someone names for being of a different race? Or is it believing in the superiority of one race over another? The latter is abhorrent and deluded. The former? Not nice but I think it's survivable, and often simply a result of not thinking. Andres made a very good post about it earlier which summed it up better than I can. I have a very low opinion of the human race generally and things like this only reinforce that view.

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Trying to compare different forms of abuse IMHO is a little facile - its all horrible and unnecessary. How on earth can you compare? Why? even?

However it is part of humanity - the ill-educated, ignorant, those with a chip on their shoulder, those with a genuine reason, those with a different cultural outlook - all will demonstrate some form of hatred/misunderstanding/intolerance. Sadly, sport - being tribal encourages these intolerances. Ironically it is sometimes those who feel the most subjugated that are the worst offenders back, but in their blind rage they omit to see this. This forum has plenty of examples of this.

Getting back on thread - Lewis is the most successful black racing driver in F1. No surprise therefore that a big chunk of his opposition is because of his colour, not a dislike of his personality, driving skill, etc. This is a shame that people cannot see beyond the colour of his skin.

As one get older one learns to recognise that we all have intolerances and the wiser ones amongst us learn to overcome them and accept people for what we are - just as others accept us with all our idiosyncracies, blemishes and foibles. Murray - maybe you'll feel differently about the world in twenty years time. I sincerely hope so.

I do think though that it is important to retain a sense of humour - to be able to laugh at oneself and with others and recognise some of these cultural differences.

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Interesting thread with some rather skewed thinking. Or is that me? Murray's digging a great big hole for himself here and people are queueing up to fill it in after him. I don't agree with his views - far too simplified and borderline numbskull. What's racism all about? Is it calling someone names for being of a different race? Or is it believing in the superiority of one race over another? The latter is abhorrent and deluded. The former? Not nice but I think it's survivable, and often simply a result of not thinking. Andres made a very good post about it earlier which summed it up better than I can. I have a very low opinion of the human race generally and things like this only reinforce that view.

Your post is quite a good one but you seem to misunderstand what I have said. Here it is again:

Even though I'm happy to wind the Spaniards and Maure up about their racist fans, I do agree with the "racist" fans in some ways. For example, if someone made fun of Bernie for being ugly no one would bat an eyelid. When I made fun of JPM for being fat no one really objected. Yet race is somehow different - it's OK to make fun of fatties and fuglies but not black people?

And before someone says it, black people can't claim racism is particularly hurtful. There are millions of girls who make themselves very seriously ill because they think they are fat or ugly, but I don't know many black people that depressed about life because of racism. Sure black people suffer racist violence, but fat and ugly girls suffer from more psychological abuse that can be just as bad - ask any girl, even an attractive one. And fat and ugly people are discriminated against at work about as much as black people - look up the stats.

So imho the "cure" for racism has to include black people becoming less hyper-sensitive.

I don't say all "racism" is OK - in fact I condemned racist violence, but perhaps I should have made it clearer. My gripe is that it's OK to "make fun of" someone or in your words " call someone names" based on some attributes but not on others with no regard for how hurtful the comments might be. I don't tolerate people who think they are better for prejudiced reasons, and I've not suggested that. But many/most of these Spanish fans don't really think that imho, no more than attractive people think they are better than fat/ugly ones. There are loads of examples of people who don't think they are superior using allegedly racist language - I've already given plenty of examples and can give more. That's the "hypersensitivity" that I said was part of the problem. And I think there's a lot of pat language that doesn't really deal with the issue. Sure genuine prejudice is "vile and abhorent" but so is bullying based on appearance. So is the fact that attractive people can earn 20% more based on their looks. There is prejudice in the world for all sorts of reasons, but only racism seems to get special treatment. People talk about bitches and faggots on here from time to time. Is prejudice against women and gays not "vile and abhorent"?

So what are you suggesting? That we never call somebody fat in case an anorexic hears? That's taking things to a ridiculous extreme in my opinion. I agree that calling an anorexic fat to their face would be terrible, but if I want to refer to JPM as a pie-muncher, I will. I can guarantee you that it won't make a blind bit of difference to anyone suffering from an eating disorder, even on the offchance they are reading this topic- it just doesn't work like that. In the simplest terms I can manage, you can't cause anorexia by calling someone fat and you can't stop them being anorexic (or affect their suffering or image of themselves) by never calling someone fat, even if they are.

How you can equate that to people yelling "****ing black" and "black ****" etc is beyond me. To be honest I find your views on race and racism to be rather vile, and I don't think I'm the only one.

I doubt you would cause a black person to die by making racist jokes on here. Nevertheless you would be reinforcing a negative stereotype that might indirectly contribute to someone else being genuinely racist. It's exactly the same when you make jokes about fatties/fuglies - you are reinforcing prejudice and feelings of low self-worth.

And you find my views vile simply because you've been indoctrinated. I find what I see as your double standards pretty vile too. Who are you to judge who else can take a joke and who can't?

Murray, read this and read it again! meditate on it and you may just get to grips with the issue at hand here. I don't bare you any malice as it appears to me that your lack of empathy is purely down to ignorance and not expressed bigotry. To write that black people should deal with apartheid is incredible :o

Well, I think there's a lot of ignorance on here about the other forms of discrimination. I didn't say black people should just deal with it, but I said lots of people have to cope with things that are imho harder to accept - like being ugly or disabled.

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I doubt that anyone who made fun of him would be as fast as him on the track or would be as successful in getting the kind of girls he gets! :P

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Trying to compare different forms of abuse IMHO is a little facile - its all horrible and unnecessary. How on earth can you compare? Why? even?

However it is part of humanity - the ill-educated, ignorant, those with a chip on their shoulder, those with a genuine reason, those with a different cultural outlook - all will demonstrate some form of hatred/misunderstanding/intolerance. Sadly, sport - being tribal encourages these intolerances. Ironically it is sometimes those who feel the most subjugated that are the worst offenders back, but in their blind rage they omit to see this. This forum has plenty of examples of this.

Getting back on thread - Lewis is the most successful black racing driver in F1. No surprise therefore that a big chunk of his opposition is because of his colour, not a dislike of his personality, driving skill, etc. This is a shame that people cannot see beyond the colour of his skin.

As one get older one learns to recognise that we all have intolerances and the wiser ones amongst us learn to overcome them and accept people for what we are - just as others accept us with all our idiosyncracies, blemishes and foibles. Murray - maybe you'll feel differently about the world in twenty years time. I sincerely hope so.

I do think though that it is important to retain a sense of humour - to be able to laugh at oneself and with others and recognise some of these cultural differences.

Amen.

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Trying to compare different forms of abuse IMHO is a little facile - its all horrible and unnecessary. How on earth can you compare? Why? even?

Yes I agree. That's my whole point. But no one objects to jokes that will be very hurtful to some people who have to deal with all kinds of "abuse" and suffering.

Murray - maybe you'll feel differently about the world in twenty years time. I sincerely hope so.

I do think though that it is important to retain a sense of humour - to be able to laugh at oneself and with others and recognise some of these cultural differences.

Perhaps I will and I agree humour is important.

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Sometimes word are said, or written, with no thought given to the meaning of those words. Some will cause offence through ignorance, not malice. Or too much credence is given to the meaning of those words. Some will look for insult where there is none, through mistrust and suspicion. That will always happen. Especially if there's an obvious difference or characteristic to hang those words on.

The idiots in Spain, however, with their funny wigs and Cherry Blossom faces are just that. Idiots. And in a minority I think, although every country has it's share.

Hmm. I probably still haven't said what I intended. Maybe later.

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The idiots in Spain, however, with their funny wigs and Cherry Blossom faces are just that. Idiots. And in a minority I think, although every country has it's share.

I could not say it better................................

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If your fat, You can lose weight and sort it out.

If your ugly you can do something about that, surgery/new look/even friends help you confidence wise.

If your black, you cant change that. Its who you are.

Its like being disabled, Im not saying being a certain race is a disability. So dont be silly and think that for a second,

but people get discriminated cos of that, yet disabled cant change their state.

Like people get discriminated for their race.

So its a different situation really.

I dont see many stabbings/shooting/violence including people because their fat or ugly.

I know the arguement your trying to make but its hard to compare and see it from that view for me anyways.

Don't agree with you, sorry. I know a hundred black women that are way more gorgeous than white ones, and they're happy with what they are and proud, and me, living in a country where half of people if not over half of it are black or at least aren't white, see a lot of scenes where the prejudice comes from the own black people against theirselves. I know it is a real problem, but I do believe it's same kind of prejudice as any other, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be saying we're all alike.

Now, if you say you never saw violence against fat / ugly people, I assume you've never been to school, with all the bullying. Because for me that's as much descrimination as any other kind of. It's prejudice when they ask pictures on your resume, because if you're ugly, you're not gonna work in that nice company, and if you're fat, you're also not.

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Sometimes word are said, or written, with no thought given to the meaning of those words. Some will cause offence through ignorance, not malice. Or too much credence is given to the meaning of those words. Some will look for insult where there is none, through mistrust and suspicion. That will always happen. Especially if there's an obvious difference or characteristic to hang those words on.

The idiots in Spain, however, with their funny wigs and Cherry Blossom faces are just that. Idiots. And in a minority I think, although every country has it's share.

Hmm. I probably still haven't said what I intended. Maybe later.

Are you sure, Russ? I am not sure the bolded bit can be improved upon.

Anyway, as has been said, these people are just idiots and a minority. Thankfully, I read that they were ejected from the circuit, etc, etc, which is all that can be done in the circumstances, I guess.

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Don't agree with you, sorry. I know a hundred black women that are way more gorgeous than white ones, and they're happy with what they are and proud, and me, living in a country where half of people if not over half of it are black or at least aren't white, see a lot of scenes where the prejudice comes from the own black people against theirselves. I know it is a real problem, but I do believe it's same kind of prejudice as any other, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be saying we're all alike.

Now, if you say you never saw violence against fat / ugly people, I assume you've never been to school, with all the bullying. Because for me that's as much descrimination as any other kind of. It's prejudice when they ask pictures on your resume, because if you're ugly, you're not gonna work in that nice company, and if you're fat, you're also not.

Yup. All that happens more to women than to men, so the men on here can't get their heads round how serious a problem it is. And women are quiet, polite people generally and don't kick up a fuss so the PC brigade ignores your problems. Women posters have been called "fat, ugly bitches" on this very forum and no one batted an eyelid, but as soon as a black man gets a whiff of an insult it suddenly becomes the most serious thing in the world. It's the same with homophobia - even I've been called a "fag" and a "homo" here, and again that was all fine in the eyes of the do-gooders. And you're absolutely right that a lot of problems in the black community are exacerbated by its own actions. Of course that's too hard for the PC-indoctrinated masses to understand, and black people will continue to suffer as a result.

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This doesn't sound like you at all, Muzza!

I won't reply your points because, frankly, I have no idea what else to say. None of your points have anything to do with the argument about racism, and nobody (amongst us PC brigadiers, do-gooders ever supported mistreatment to women/fat/ugly/gay people. BTW, why not PChysterics? :P )

I will only reply to Katy's and your point about women being called "fat, ugly bitches" here and nobody doing anything because that one is totally unfair. I recall seeing but one post with similar content: Hermy's post calling Katy a whore in mangled portuguese (Sorry Katy to bring this back again). If you recall, or look up the topic, you will notice that it was me the first to point that out and ask for Hermy's permanent banning, which finally happened as a consequence of that. And we all, PC or not, despised Hermy for what he said. If there was some other one, I didn't see it. But if I'd noticed another one I would've reacted in the exact same way.

Now, I have no idea why are you so adamant about black people "exacerbating" racism. I like the brilliant, sensitive Muzza better!

Maybe the rap music you are listening to is THAT bad? :P

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Yup. All that happens more to women than to men, so the men on here can't get their heads round how serious a problem it is. And women are quiet, polite people generally and don't kick up a fuss so the PC brigade ignores your problems. Women posters have been called "fat, ugly bitches" on this very forum and no one batted an eyelid, but as soon as a black man gets a whiff of an insult it suddenly becomes the most serious thing in the world. It's the same with homophobia - even I've been called a "fag" and a "homo" here, and again that was all fine in the eyes of the do-gooders. And you're absolutely right that a lot of problems in the black community are exacerbated by its own actions. Of course that's too hard for the PC-indoctrinated masses to understand, and black people will continue to suffer as a result.

I don't get your point

I'm black and I've suffered racism in various kinds all my life. I'm not bitter nor do I view all Spanish as racists. In fact I lived in Spain for about 2 years and co habited with my girlfiend at the time, who was white. I never once felt threatened or discriminated against in Spain so I would never tar them with the same brush. Like Lewis, I love Barcelona and Ibiza and won't stop going because of a few monkey chants. I tend to judge most things by my own experiences.

History, on the other hand cannot be altered - The holocaust, slavery, apartheid, genoicide, Palestine and now Iraq are crimes against humanity. They make the vast majority feel sick to their stomachs - there is no excuse!

Black people, per se, do not bring anything upon themselves, in the main they are victims of their circumstances. That in itself is another argument, but it annoys me when individuals that have not experienced something argue as if they know - that is a lack of empathy - If you don't understand something don't judge it by your own experiences. Flip the other side of the coin and imagine you were born of poor illiterate parents in a shanty town in Brazil or South Africa - Your peers steal and kill each other daily - what would you do?

Homophobia or any other form of prejudice is equally abhorrent. The difference is that however I feel on a sensitive issue I think it is best to keep it to myself. Where is the upside in some of the comments you have made? Have you proved anything? Changed history? made any more friends? The answer is no! so why are you trying to prove a point that no one shares.

Living is about making friends not enemies and I'm not sure what direction you are going at the moment.

My take

-_-

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Well, I can see I'm fighting a losing battle, but I think society is the worse for me losing

I won't reply your points because, frankly, I have no idea what else to say. None of your points have anything to do with the argument about racism, and nobody (amongst us PC brigadiers, do-gooders ever supported mistreatment to women/fat/ugly/gay people. BTW, why not PChysterics? :P )

I know you haven't supported it, but you (but more so everyone else) see it as far more acceptable. And that is really what I've been saying for post after post now. We all know we can say derogatory things about women and gay people with relative impunity, but as soon as we say something remotely controversial regarding race we are beyond the pale. This is no criticism of Bruce, it's just a reflection of the biases in society.

I will only reply to Katy's and your point about women being called "fat, ugly bitches" here and nobody doing anything because that one is totally unfair. I recall seeing but one post with similar content: Hermy's post calling Katy a whore in mangled portuguese (Sorry Katy to bring this back again). If you recall, or look up the topic, you will notice that it was me the first to point that out and ask for Hermy's permanent banning, which finally happened as a consequence of that. And we all, PC or not, despised Hermy for what he said. If there was some other one, I didn't see it. But if I'd noticed another one I would've reacted in the exact same way.

The words "fat", "ugly", "bitch", "homo" and "fag" have all been used here without much condemnation. Try it and see for yourself. Call Britney Spears a dumb, ugly, fat bitch. Call Elton John a flaming fag. Then call my favourite comedian Chris Rock a dumb nigger and see if people react the same way; or my second favourite comedian Sarah Silverman a dirty jew (actually one might get away with that one!).

Maybe the rap music you are listening to is THAT bad? :P

:o Racist! Is it 'coz they is black? But actually I've always said that black people have been amazingly creative - most of the new musical genres of the 20th century were really started off by black people.

Homophobia or any other form of prejudice is equally abhorrent. The difference is that however I feel on a sensitive issue I think it is best to keep it to myself.

Like I said to Andres, I've seen plenty of hurtful comments on here that have been laughed up or ignored by all of us. It's only when one form of prejudice rears its head that the whole forum gets upset. If you and everyone else were equally vociferous when Mika (Dan) talked about bitches, whores, fags and homos I wouldn't have such an issue. Likewise Dan (Bajo) used to insult people all the time, for example I remember him calling female posters fat and ugly. Jay and myself often make very rude jokes about gay people. All of us make comments that are clearly inappropriate for young posters, but does anyone care that we might be sexualising young children? We all objectify women on here and it puts women off, not to mention sets a bad example for the young men. The list of bad behaviour goes on and on, but only when one group in society might get offended does the forum get upset. I think it's hypocrisy.

Where is the upside in some of the comments you have made? Have you proved anything? Changed history? made any more friends? The answer is no! so why are you trying to prove a point that no one shares.

:) There's no point in trying to prove a point that everyone already shares! And I think it's important to have a consistent approach to prejudice. If it's important to you that we don't say some things, then we should think carefully about how everyone else feels when they are insulted too.

Black people, per se, do not bring anything upon themselves, in the main they are victims of their circumstances. That in itself is another argument, but it annoys me when individuals that have not experienced something argue as if they know - that is a lack of empathy - If you don't understand something don't judge it by your own experiences. Flip the other side of the coin and imagine you were born of poor illiterate parents in a shanty town in Brazil or South Africa - Your peers steal and kill each other daily - what would you do?

Well this is another debate, and clearly I disagree with you to some extent again. It's a mistake to think that you have to be black to offer an opinion on how to fix things. And I'm not the only one judging things that they haven't lived through. None of us men have suffered from sexism or homophobia (as far as I know) or bullying due to appearance etc. Yet many of you are telling me it's OK to say things that might hurt people who have suffered from those things.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I'll give up now after one final comment: it's no skin off my nose what happens to gay people, fat ugly women or black people. I've tried to point out society's hypocrisy but it seems that it will take a long time before people deal with hurtful issues rather than pandering to one group over another. In effect PC-ness is a form of discrimination itself, and like all forms of discrimination it takes a later generation to see it as such.

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Right, I'm not sure what I'm going to write so the following may be a little confused (what's new eh?)! Bear with me :)

I'll start by saying that insulting anyone for any reason is bad, if it is uncalled for with malicious intent. Some jokes are OK if you know the person, and know what their reaction will be, however no matter how well you know someone there will always be a joke that they are sensitive to. Judgement and understanding is required (which is usually gained through experience, although in some cases it's obvious a joke is inappropriate).

I don't see any point in comparing these different issues like obesity/racism/whatever because each is very different and I'm not sure what you can gain from doing that, they are all bad things in the world and there isn't a great deal you can do about them, apart from make your own contribution as unbiased and decent as it can be. Better to spend time educating the ignorant than arguing about which issue is worse or which affects more people. If you call a famous person (I say famous person because if it was a regular you would offend their friends of course) 'fat' on this forum it seems to me that it's unlikely to offend another overweight person who reads that post, whereas if you say a racist remark then that will offend most people, most of all the race it is directed at. I think that's because being black is part of a person's identity and history, whereas being overweight isn't. At different points in history certain people have been forced to unify due to oppression, as is the case with black people, and that's why black people may feel some kind of connection with other black people. The same has not happened with overweight people, at no point in history were they all forced into concentration camps, or segregated, so they do not feel it is part of their identity - therefore when someone makes a fat joke about another fat person, it does not offend other overweight people so deeply. Being overweight is usually a result of lifestyle, but black people are born black, so it is something which is at the core of who they are - it affects their place in the world (difficult to explain what I mean by that, but essentially where they feel they fit in or belong) - I obviously am not saying anyone should be forced into a lifestyle or social status because of the colour of their skin or anything like that.

Racism gets much more press and special treatment because it affects much more people in greater ways, as in violent crimes committed against black people, for example. No, that doesn't make it any worse than other prejudices suffered by woman or obese people or whatever else and any other form of discrimination is worth considering too. The fact is that prejudices against woman/obese people etc happen on a smaller scale and have less traumatic or violent impacts on the people it relates to.

I'm not sure how much discrimination there is against people who are disabled or ugly (the ugly one is a difficult argument really, considering that's a subjective term), but they certainly don't have violent crimes committed against them because they are ugly/disabled/obese etc. My point is that overweight/ugly/bald/etc people don

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No...I wouldn't say so. If there is anything it's usually because the Maori's pull out the race card..."you're picking on me because I'm a Maori" sort of thing.

Certainly nothing like racism in the States (with African-Americans) or UK (with "Asians")

You're watching too many movies. What you describe about New Zealand mirrors most of America's experiences with racism today. I know it's hard to grasp that, but just like this incident in Spain there are a few loud instances of racism....and those are not reflective of the country as a whole.

Murray, I am perhaps the only one here who understands what you're saying. It's truth, but it wont be accepted from you because you're caucasian. Martin Luther King Jr. made, essentially, the same arguments and is applauded for them. You are branded a bigot. Interesting in this world where MLK wanted us to be judged by the content of our character we see persons of color deliberately pointing out their color and segregating themselves with a different sub-culture yet praising MLK all the while. Ah well, life is amusing, is it not?

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[quote name='Rainmaster' post='238516' date='Feb 5 2008, 09:21 PM']Anyhoo go through your life and be as nice as possible to others, accept people's differences and hope they can accept yours[/quote]

Absolutely

[quote name='Rainmaster' post='238516' date='Feb 5 2008, 09:21 PM']basically, pretend your in a Disney film :) [/quote]

What even down to making the occasional fart joke? (every Disney film has one these days... if you don't believe me check them out) :)

I would like to relate a little anecdote (sorry Andres :) )

When I was in Brazil in Belo Horizonte once, we were in a bar one evening. We had consumed a few drinks and were mellow when all of a sudden we heard a commotion and coming down the street was a group of a dozen or so young men, clearly rather under the influence of alcohol, shouting loudly to each other. At this point we got a bit scared and went to pay the bar-man.

<commercial break>
Now if we had left at this point we would have related how we were in a dangerous position and were lucky to get away with it - what a dangerous place Brazil was, etc. But we did not...
<end of commercial break>

One of the young lads shouted over to the bar-man who he obviously knew and then shouted to us: "Americano???" "No" we replied, nervously "Inglase!" - they came dashing over shook our hands, put their arms around us saying "Inglase, Inglase!!! Bobby Charlton!!! David Beckham!!!"

One of them dived into his car which was next to the bar, put a tape into his car stereo (and this is the absolute, honest truth), turned up the volume and blaring out at about 120 Decibels was "God Save The Queen" (British National Anthem). They were charming, although very sloshed and what we thought was a threatening situation actually turned out to be delightful; we had a good laugh and is a real memory. All the Brazilian people I met were lovely by the way. Highly recommend the place!

The point of my anecdote was that my stupid concerns and prejudices could have changed the way I viewed this incident, coloured my judgment of them and their judgment of me. I learned something from this about prejudice.


The only thing that made we wonder afterwards though (and this deeply troubled me)....


What the hell was the Brazilian lad doing with a copy of the British National Anthem in his car!!!!????? :)

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You're watching too many movies. What you describe about New Zealand mirrors most of America's experiences with racism today. I know it's hard to grasp that, but just like this incident in Spain there are a few loud instances of racism....and those are not reflective of the country as a whole.

Perhaps not in California (certainly not in San Francisco). However I was in Phoenix last week for a conference and had to endure not only a taxi ride with a man who believed that "all Muslims should be jailed, then sent back to whatever s##thole they came from", but also one of the staff telling me how he believed Katrina was God's way of trimming down the black population. His colleagues heartily agreed with him. A friend of mine went to Virginia recently and had a similar experience with another customer who was complaining that a black family had moved in to a house on his street. Apparently he was worried that they were going to leave rubbish lying around in their front yard.

Yes, these may be isolated incidents, but I haven't particularly travelled far and wide to seek them out. And given that most people are reluctant to express those views you have to wonder how many other people hold them but keep their mouths shut. I think it's more widespread than you think.

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Those who suffer from racism (which is far more widespread) do not have the option of treatment for their problem, for the problem is not in them but in somebody else. They do not have the power to change anything, which leads perhaps ultimately to a culture of victimhood, as evidenced by Sharpton and his mob (who it should be noted are reviled by most people of all races that I have met for exactly that reason). However that hypersensitivity should be viewed as an effect rather than a cause.

So are you saying if an individual can change then it must be their problem or more of their problem? I disagree. If someone can't accept the way another individual is, even if they can change, as long as they are not hurting themselves or being offensive to others then it is still the others problem.

I frequent some other forums and an 'in joke' at the moment is to say individuals must have Asperger Syndrome / bi-polar and a few others too. People 'diagnose' celebrities etc and I've even heard some government policies called 'Asperger like policies' because they 'do not make sense'. If an individual does not understand something which is considered obvious or react in an unusual manner then they are called either any of the above mentioned or 'mentally retarded' etc. I've encountered several times in my life individuals who just make assumptions about me because of my label, or say that I am in fact a liar or Asperger Syndrome is a 'made up disorder' (the thread title mentioned by Murray I think is a case in point).

The joke / comment itself isn't what is offensive to me but the ignorance and sometimes the context they are said in that they don't realise what they are saying. I think that runs true to so many areas where individuals feel hurt or victimised by others. If I don't understand or know much about something then I will stay well clear, because otherwise my comments would just appear ignorant and I'd be a hypocrite. For instance an individual could appear fat because of the medication they are taking which makes it extremely easy to put on weight (forget the terminology?) so unless I knew them I try my best not to judge them.

As for Spain, as I've mentioned before it seems more racist than other countries perhaps because of immigration and the history surrounding it, but of course that is not to say therefore that the whole country is racist or even that most are. All countries and media need to stop highlighting the difference in the first place though, as mention of it, positive or negative is still reminding people of a difference, just like many F1 news stories ran Hamilton's entrance into F1, as the first black driver in F1. Or that the only fact that they give of his brother is that he has cerebral palsy. Just to prove my point I think more people know he has cerebral palsy (or a 'disability' of some form) than that his name was Nicholas. Is that really the defining characteristic of a person? I find it odd.

If there wasn't so much ignorance then there would be no need for 'political correctness'. That isn't to say that everyone should know everything, but that everyone should realise they do not know everything.

- As a note nothing in this post was meant in an offensive manner, things can get pretty heated in threads like this and I typed this pretty fast.

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Absolutely

What even down to making the occasional fart joke? (every Disney film has one these days... if you don't believe me check them out) :)

I would like to relate a little anecdote (sorry Andres :) )

Phewww, for a minute when you talked about Disney, I thought you would tell that you were friend with the three Caballeros!

post-1794-1202250983.jpg

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