Poll: Robert Kubica

[Null 0]

well he kinda made a clown of himself in the first place - when he assured on TV that he hasn't been taking steroids :}

haha, yeah, course not

[Null 0]

It happens everywhere! England with Hamilton, Spain with Alonso, Aus with Webber, Germany with Schumacher I could go on all day!

[HandyNZL 1]

It happens everywhere! England with Hamilton, Spain with Alonso, Aus with Webber, Germany with Schumacher I could go on all day!

No - England has always had great F1 knowledge and knowledgable fans...from Stirling Moss in the early 60's, to Graham Hill, to Nigel Mansell, to Damon Hill, to upteen other drivers. What I am getting at, and many others in other posts, is that in some countries, like Germany, whom had very few drivers in F1 through 1960-1980's, it took someone like Schumacher to raise the profile of F1...Germany always had the Nurburgring, and Mercedes and stuff, but the broader knowledge and acceptance wasn't there - they were sportscar mad. So to Spain, whom have had very few people to cheer on, yet have had Grand Prix's going back to the late 50's. When Pedro was driving, not many seemed to care (two wheels was the thing to be in back then), and the Spanish GP didn't have many spectators compared to other tracks. Then Nando came along, and started winning, and suddenly there was an upswell in coverage and "knowledge" by the fans. The same will happen in Poland with Robbie.

As for Australia with Webber, that too is a crock, as Aussie and NZ have ties in F1 going back decades and decades, from Jack Brabham and his three WDC, his Brabham WCC, and countless top flight F1 drivers from Europe coming to NZ and Aussie to compete in the Tasman Series during the off season in the '60's. Also add to that the World Championships of Denny Hulme and Alan Jones, and you realise that Webber is just one of many from Down Under that have succeeded, and enthralled generations of Australian and NZ motorsport fans.

Lets take the USA for example...the fans there know more about NASCAR and IRL than F1...so in a way they are a bit of a back water, yet have had their fair share of successful drivers such as Mark Donohue, Peter Revson etc etc...oh and Phil Hill. But their internal race scene took over, namely the Indy 500 which attracted F1 stars throughout the 60's and 70's even though it was smack dab in the middle of Monaco race! And lately the best they can muster is Scott Speed, whom didn't exactly draw in the crowds...(even though Eric will dispute that of his lover)

[Quiet One 15]

Mr.Handy, what exactly do you want to get at with you comparisons between different countries and their fans?

And yes, that noise is the sound of thin ice cracking under your feet...

[HandyNZL 1]

That although there are pockets of knowledge everywhere, it generally takes a great driver to raise the awareness of F1 in his home country, and thus "spread the word" as it were.

I'm sure many people you know think you are nuts or look at you with a blank face when you talk about F1 that are outside "the circle", and are more interested in soccer or rugby. But if Argentina had another great driver such as you once had, then the knowledge base would increase. It's like in NZ, we all think europeans are mad to watch a boring game (to us) of soccer, instead of rugby or league...simply because we are better at those two sports and amongst the best in the world (like Nando / Schumi etc), yet we have soccer clubs, and even a team in a professional league, but does the casual observer know as much about Manchester, AC Milan, or Chelsea, or even know who's strip is who's? No...but we sure could talk the socks off you when it comes to rugby. It's horse's for courses, and the horse's are more well known if they have success...eg Nando increasing the knowledge base in Spain by doing well. If he had been just another Pedro, then Spain would still be a motorcycle and rally mad country, with only a minor following of F1.

People flock around leaders and winners...because we all want to share in the success and feel a connection....and we are sheep...bah bah

[Null 0]

um, yeah, the English FANs might have knowledge - FANS in any country have knowledge, but the English bandwagon jumpers who jumped on the media train of Lewis Hamilton certaintly don't. There has been a MASSIVE upswell in coverage in England since Hamilton. Anyway - why on earth am i justifying what has happened in England when you're not even IN the country?!

[Quiet One 15]

I agree with that, of course. And you might wonder why I asked.

People flocking behind the newest sports superstar is nothing new. There is not just one kind of public. The biggest part of a fanbase in every sport in every country is purely motivated by chauvinism. I read once a very interesting article from Umberto Ecco saying that sorts (sports you watch, not sports you practice) were nothing but a ritualization of wars. You pick a team/country, and watch it go to "war" and cry for blood and yaddah yaddah. It happens everywhere.On the plus side, people is diverting their need for destruction to (more or less) peacefully watch some sport. On the negative side, that wild, destructive instinct looms in the back. That's how you get those partisans that we all know so well.

A word of caution here: we all have that instinct. Partisan fanatics might be the most vocals. But even the most knowledgeable, calm and objective sports fan has it. It's the bias I am talking about. That darn little thing that would make us watch the exact same situation caused by two different drivers and interpret each one in a totally opposite manner. What is even worse, it's so much easier to spot it when somebody else's has it than when you have it.

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with your post. I was about to explain that Spanish most ignorant fanbase is not worse than any other, and comparing the few passionate and knowledgeable about a sport in some country with the new fanbois in another seemed unfair...but it got out of hand. I wish I could focus on one issue for once in my life

And no, I am not saying you have any of those traits. I was about to explain that some people (the non-spanish partisans) could take your words out of context to justify their own despise for the Spaniards...oh, well...someday I will be able to write that.

EDIT: And when I finally typed all this garbage, I found that in the meantime Antonia said what I intended to in just a couple of lines *sigh*

[AleHop 0]

That although there are pockets of knowledge everywhere, it generally takes a great driver to raise the awareness of F1 in his home country, and thus "spread the word" as it were.

I'm sure many people you know think you are nuts or look at you with a blank face when you talk about F1 that are outside "the circle", and are more interested in soccer or rugby. But if Argentina had another great driver such as you once had, then the knowledge base would increase. It's like in NZ, we all think europeans are mad to watch a boring game (to us) of soccer, instead of rugby or league...simply because we are better at those two sports and amongst the best in the world (like Nando / Schumi etc), yet we have soccer clubs, and even a team in a professional league, but does the casual observer know as much about Manchester, AC Milan, or Chelsea, or even know who's strip is who's? No...but we sure could talk the socks off you when it comes to rugby. It's horse's for courses, and the horse's are more well known if they have success...eg Nando increasing the knowledge base in Spain by doing well. If he had been just another Pedro, then Spain would still be a motorcycle and rally mad country, with only a minor following of F1.

People flock around leaders and winners...because we all want to share in the success and feel a connection....and we are sheep...bah bah

Of course not, but they know much more about Real Madrid (all white) and Liverpool (all red).

I'm sure Quiet One remember Alfredo Di Stefano, The Blonde Arrow, he was as good as Fangio in football (soccer).

[raw 0]

I agree with that, of course. And you might wonder why I asked.

People flocking behind the newest sports superstar is nothing new. There is not just one kind of public. The biggest part of a fanbase in every sport in every country is purely motivated by chauvinism. I read once a very interesting article from Umberto Ecco saying that sorts (sports you watch, not sports you practice) were nothing but a ritualization of wars. You pick a team/country, and watch it go to "war" and cry for blood and yaddah yaddah. It happens everywhere.On the plus side, people is diverting their need for destruction to (more or less) peacefully watch some sport. On the negative side, that wild, destructive instinct looms in the back. That's how you get those partisans that we all know so well.

that "war" thing is common thing for soccer fans. In poland there's a slight difference...it's the fans who go to war (kinda real one this time) on the street somewhere between train station and stadium just before and after the game (which no one really cares about - it's just a reason for the war to get started ). Unfortunately I found myself 2 times in the middle of a little war of this kind and I must say it wasn't much fun...

[Piotr 0]

up to 2005 since they started airing F1 on polish tv - it started around 2001 or 2 - at least on this private channel.

I really don't remember if F1 was aired in mid 90's and can't remember what was it like (and I'm glad about that) in 70's and 80's cause I'm 23. I know though that neither Lauda or Andretii or any F1 driver was as popular as Kubica in poland. Alpine skiing?

Ski jumping yes, but it was much more popular before Malysz than F1 before Kubica. I don't like soccer so I don't know about that one.

My point was (like somebody posted before) that before Kubica's entry to F1 nobody knew who he was and very few people were interested in F1. I didn't have one conversation about F1 up to 2005 and now it's common topic and suddenly everybody are big time fans and experts. After every single one race like that when something goes wrong it's the same story - german conspiration to make Heidfeld look better blablabla. Now it's becoming just another thing to whine about...and that's really a shame.

Besides no one of those big time fans really cares - I remember watching GP canada last year in the pub and after RK crash most of the comments were something like "o kurwa ale przypierdolił " - and that kinda says it all...

Yeah, but that's what I said - 3 times. The question is, was it said with a feeling???

[Piotr 0]

I would take Robert out of that list and put Button in. And Rosberg. Robert has no form.

Ha ha ha ! Funny. Yup, Jensen proves himself - race after race. Rosberg too. Never mind Kubica. he means nothing. Even when he wins the WDC. I'm telling ya! You forgot Scott Speed. He had form.

[Piotr 0]

I just think that "groupie" is a heavy word for a girl who likes F1... Anyway...

I've seen you attacking Heidfeld doing exactly what you say she shouldn't do with Robert. Defending him when he is outperformed by Nick, which is OK, but never givin' Heidfeld any credit for doing it. Just sayin' it was "bad luck".

I see that Robert kind of helps his fans to face thinks this way, he is always with something to say, and not exactly good things, about BMW. He is lucky to be really fast, or he wouldn't have a job anymore.

I'm a Heidfeld fan and I'm really proud of him beating Kubica, who is a really, really fast driver. And I hope things stay in this way. Don't know if Robert is a World Champion material, but he for sure has the potencial. About Nick, I'm afraid of he getting a car fast enough to fight for a Champion too late, or never getting it at all...

Katy and I have an "anti-thing" going back aboutr a year. She started this by ridiculing Kubi for not finishing the gp Australia and being last at Sepang, as if the BMW problems were his fault. This is what started it. Now, I begin to see her taking the "poor little me and the Nick" stance. It's not going to work with me. I remember her posts from a year ago, and often go back to them. I suggest you do that too.

[Piotr 0]

To Piotr

Katy is not Nicks grupie shes also not Kubica anty-grupie

[Null 0]

Piotr - did you see Katy's choices in the rate the drivers thread? She rated Kubica 3rd worst on the grid (and Hamilton worst which is a complete joke), and Nick the best on the grid - it's not even worth your time and effort to convince her how good Kubica is.

Likewise Katy - did you see Piotr's choices in the same thread? He rated Kubica the best on the grid, and Heidfeld the 2nd worst (with Hamilton worst again... I may not like the guy, but at least I recognise he's a good driver, although it may be accentuated by the car he's in!) - it's not worth your effort to try and convince him that Heidfeld is an excellent driver.

[Kati 0]

Katy and I have an "anti-thing" going back aboutr a year. She started this by ridiculing Kubi for not finishing the gp Australia and being last at Sepang, as if the BMW problems were his fault. This is what started it. Now, I begin to see her taking the "poor little me and the Nick" stance. It's not going to work with me. I remember her posts from a year ago, and often go back to them. I suggest you do that too.

I love you too! Thx for remembering our anniversary!

Piotr - did you see Katy's choices in the rate the drivers thread? She rated Kubica 3rd worst on the grid (and Hamilton worst which is a complete joke), and Nick the best on the grid - it's not even worth your time and effort to convince her how good Kubica is.

Likewise Katy - did you see Piotr's choices in the same thread? He rated Kubica the best on the grid, and Heidfeld the 2nd worst (with Hamilton worst again... I may not like the guy, but at least I recognise he's a good driver, although it may be accentuated by the car he's in!) - it's not worth your effort to try and convince him that Heidfeld is an excellent driver.

I'm not convincing him of anything, 'cus I don't want him to like Nick at all. But as far as he criticizes Nick, I'll criticize KubeeTZa.

[Jean Todt 4]

I love you too! Thx for remembering our anniversary!

I'm not convincing him of anything, 'cus I don't want him to like Nick at all. But as far as he criticizes Nick, I'll criticize KubeeTZa.

that was soo sweeet Katy!

[kate h. 0]

happy anniversary

[Quiet One 15]

Nice love story.

I hereby pronounce you Dumb and Dumber.

Now let's move onto the really important things like "Why Nando is better than Hammy", "Why Hammy is better than Nando" and "Why are you all against me".

Thank you very much.

[schumi13 0]

Robert Kubica isnt in BMW for no reason. He clearly is a good driver and he can win a race this year but I would bank on Heidfeld to get BMW's first win.

[freaky2 1]

Nice love story.

I hereby pronounce you Dumb and Dumber.

Now let's move onto the really important things like "Why Nando is better than Hammy", "Why Hammy is better than Nando" and "Why are you all against me".

Thank you very much.

Go make a poll about it

[Max Mosley 2]

No - England has always had great F1 knowledge and knowledgable fans...from Stirling Moss in the early 60's, to Graham Hill, to Nigel Mansell, to Damon Hill, to upteen other drivers. What I am getting at, and many others in other posts, is that in some countries, like Germany, whom had very few drivers in F1 through 1960-1980's, it took someone like Schumacher to raise the profile of F1...Germany always had the Nurburgring, and Mercedes and stuff, but the broader knowledge and acceptance wasn't there - they were sportscar mad. So to Spain, whom have had very few people to cheer on, yet have had Grand Prix's going back to the late 50's. When Pedro was driving, not many seemed to care (two wheels was the thing to be in back then), and the Spanish GP didn't have many spectators compared to other tracks. Then Nando came along, and started winning, and suddenly there was an upswell in coverage and "knowledge" by the fans. The same will happen in Poland with Robbie.

As for Australia with Webber, that too is a crock, as Aussie and NZ have ties in F1 going back decades and decades, from Jack Brabham and his three WDC, his Brabham WCC, and countless top flight F1 drivers from Europe coming to NZ and Aussie to compete in the Tasman Series during the off season in the '60's. Also add to that the World Championships of Denny Hulme and Alan Jones, and you realise that Webber is just one of many from Down Under that have succeeded, and enthralled generations of Australian and NZ motorsport fans.

Lets take the USA for example...the fans there know more about NASCAR and IRL than F1...so in a way they are a bit of a back water, yet have had their fair share of successful drivers such as Mark Donohue, Peter Revson etc etc...oh and Phil Hill. But their internal race scene took over, namely the Indy 500 which attracted F1 stars throughout the 60's and 70's even though it was smack dab in the middle of Monaco race! And lately the best they can muster is Scott Speed, whom didn't exactly draw in the crowds...(even though Eric will dispute that of his lover)

You're absolutely right. But what you are saying is dangerous. There is a serious risk that you will incite ethnic cleansing in western europe, so let's just not go there again.

Piotr - did you see Katy's choices in the rate the drivers thread? She rated Kubica 3rd worst on the grid (and Hamilton worst which is a complete joke), and Nick the best on the grid - it's not even worth your time and effort to convince her how good Kubica is.

Likewise Katy - did you see Piotr's choices in the same thread? He rated Kubica the best on the grid, and Heidfeld the 2nd worst (with Hamilton worst again... I may not like the guy, but at least I recognise he's a good driver, although it may be accentuated by the car he's in!) - it's not worth your effort to try and convince him that Heidfeld is an excellent driver.

Not if I'm thinking of the same thread as you. The lists were supposed to be based on how much you like a driver, not how talented you think they are. So I think both their lists were fair enough. You are right though on the bigger point: neither will ever convince the other of anything.

[DOF_power 0]

England didn't have any knowledgeable fans. And many are still biased boneheads just like every other national hero types.

The F1 circus wasn't even on TV until the late 70s. Extensive Cricket, Horse of the Year and Wimbledon type overkill coverage for the privileged few that's what was on BBC from the 50s to the late 70s. It was really the Mansell mania that made F1 popular in Britain in the 80s just like Alonso has don in Spain.

Moss, Clark, Hill Sr., Stewart never existed, only with Hunt (and sometimes for the wrong reasons) did the casual brits found out that F1 exists.

[Rainmaster 7]

The most important thing to note is this, I am George, British, and know everything (yes, even that, and that, and that as well).

The End.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I'd back him to become a world champion, provided he is given a car capable of doing so in.

[Jean Todt 4]

The most important thing to note is this, I am George, British, and know everything (yes, even that, and that, and that as well).

The End.