Safety In F1

[Kay 0]

There is no such thing as a safe motorsport.

You can have both to a degree. At some point you must decide which you want more, racing or safety. Racing cars is inherently dangerous. If you increase the safety, you decrease the racing. That is an immutable fact. I think that today we have a good balance of the two. Any more safety and the racing will hurt.

Nobody but the truly honest will admit that one part of the thrill of watching motorsports is to see these drivers dodge death. The sport is more exciting when there's the looming threat of injury or death. That is perhaps sad, but it's true. When motorsports become the ultimate in safety, people will cease to watch it.

Maybe as a theory it is good, but in practice it is not quite true. Certain areas have improved in safety without affecting racing such as wheel tethers.

I think in the long run F1 has to continually keep a check of itself and look for rule changes they have made which could create new dangers. I can certainly say I do not watch F1 for the dangers that could be, I watch it for the thrill of seeing the underdogs beat the favourites. I can't watch any videos that show a death because it makes me very sick - believe me I've tried.

[AleHop 0]

Well, it's true I have no clue because I'm not even Spanish, but I meant that as a bit of a joke. I didn't know it was done here, that's for sure, in fact I read (too much time ago it seems) that it was done someplace else.

And bullfighting is too hard to deal with sadly, but Catalonia is one of the places where people are more rational about those things in my opinion.

But sorry for being that clueless, maybe nothing I said is true... :S

Yes, they used to do it in some other place too it was in a small village of Zamora and they kept throwing the goat for quite too much time. I think they don't do it now. Asturias, Alonso's birth place, is an area where I have never seen bullfighting tradition in Spain. Bullfighting is very popular in the South of France and Portugal, it is, unfortunately if you want, not only Spain.

[the ferret 0]

quote: Skating on thin ice

If the ice on a frozen pond is thick near the bank and thinner in the middle, with a strip of unfrozen water at the centre, where would you skate?

Some people would choose not to skate at all, sipping hot chocolate in what is termed the 'detachment zone'. Others might venture cautiously onto the edge, remaining within the 'safety zone'. But a minority will be drawn to the thin ice, precisely because of the risk and the possibility of hearing it crack underfoot. These people perceive less danger than the others .

Their 'protective frame' extends much farther out from the bank than those who stay in the 'safety zone'.

The risk takers who explore the 'trauma zone' enjoy the state of arousal induced by courting danger.

F1 drivers are not worried by the danger of being killed by a sport they love....that is the buzz

[Quiet One 15]

quote: Skating on thin ice

If the ice on a frozen pond is thick near the bank and thinner in the middle, with a strip of unfrozen water at the centre, where would you skate?

Some people would choose not to skate at all, sipping hot chocolate in what is termed the 'detachment zone'. Others might venture cautiously onto the edge, remaining within the 'safety zone'. But a minority will be drawn to the thin ice, precisely because of the risk and the possibility of hearing it crack underfoot. These people perceive less danger than the others .

Their 'protective frame' extends much farther out from the bank than those who stay in the 'safety zone'.

The risk takers who explore the 'trauma zone' enjoy the state of arousal induced by courting danger.

F1 drivers are not worried by the danger of being killed by a sport they love....that is the buzz

They sound worried to me. Probably because love for danger does not necesarily means suicide. They don't want to die a horrible death. Their primary goal is to go fast. The safer they feel, the safer they can push. Safety has improved lots since the 50's, where dying, as DOF many times said, was more common than pitting for new tires. That didn't mean races got more boring. Not every solution means nerfing down the fun. Precisely because they know that a balance must be maintained is that so much effort must be put. If not, it would just be a matter of making them run on padded soapboxes pushed by nurses.

SOmetimes they push too far on the safety direction and it gets boring. Sometimes they push too much in the opposite direction and it gets bloody. It's a thin line, but it's part of technology advancement. I'd say go try to walk that thin line. Make them fast, make them daring, but don't let the next Senna die.

[Quiet One 15]

Yes, they used to do it in some other place too it was in a small village of Zamora and they kept throwing the goat for quite too much time. I think they don't do it now. Asturias, Alonso's birth place, is an area where I have never seen bullfighting tradition in Spain. Bullfighting is very popular in the South of France and Portugal, it is, unfortunately if you want, not only Spain.

Just a question from an ignorant person from abroad: after all those years of throwing goats, did any of those learn how to fly?

[the ferret 0]

They have a new name for the sport its base jumping

[AleHop 0]

Just a question from an ignorant person from abroad: after all those years of throwing goats, did any of those learn how to fly?

I wish it was the purpouse of the thing but like you I can't find any reason for throwing a goat from the top of a church.

[Eric 0]

Chess is more dangerous than F1.

I'm not saying safety is bad, but the driver mentality behind all this safety basically translates to driving like an extremely nervous nerdy woman (like, say, Graham). They are the "stay in the right lane at all times and never switch lanes ever and stay at 45 mph in a 65 mph zone" of the race track. They make it boring.

I wish the drivers wouldn't care. I wish that the guys who run the sport would make it safe in the event of an accident, and the guys who race would race, and if they crash, they'll be fine-ish. I don't want to see drivers die, but I also don't want the drivers to be pansies. Because if people are getting paid millions of dollars a year to be pansies, I'm getting ripped off.

[Kay 0]

They are not pansies.

Some of the drivers at the heart of safety have felt that they've almost lost their own lives in their career. Many people who suffered the accidents some of them do would never return in the car again. Yet drivers jump straight in; even when stopped by their injury.

[HandyNZL 1]

Chess is more dangerous than F1.

I'm not saying safety is bad, but the driver mentality behind all this safety basically translates to driving like an extremely nervous nerdy woman (like, say, Graham). They are the "stay in the right lane at all times and never switch lanes ever and stay at 45 mph in a 65 mph zone" of the race track. They make it boring.

I wish the drivers wouldn't care. I wish that the guys who run the sport would make it safe in the event of an accident, and the guys who race would race, and if they crash, they'll be fine-ish. I don't want to see drivers die, but I also don't want the drivers to be pansies. Because if people are getting paid millions of dollars a year to be pansies, I'm getting ripped off.

Eric, I think you're a funny guy, and you make some good posts, but this ain't one of 'em.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Maybe as a theory it is good, but in practice it is not quite true. Certain areas have improved in safety without affecting racing such as wheel tethers.

You'll make a fine lawyer one day! You've chosen one issue of safety that doesn't harm racing at all. You could lump in helmets and racing harnesses too while you're at it. I'm not talking about those kinds of common sense things.

The issues I'm talking about are, for example, the grooved tyres and raised front wings. Both were instituted to slow the cars down and increase safety. Both have resulted in much poorer racing, though probably safer racing. Those examples are more than theories, they're facts.

I think in the long run F1 has to continually keep a check of itself and look for rule changes they have made which could create new dangers. I can certainly say I do not watch F1 for the dangers that could be, I watch it for the thrill of seeing the underdogs beat the favourites. I can't watch any videos that show a death because it makes me very sick - believe me I've tried.

You miss my point, but I suspect it's a gender thing. The point wasn't to say we watch in anticipation of death and injury. Quite the opposite in fact. We watch to see the drivers succeed in doing something dangerous. It takes skill to court death in a fast car and those people that can do it earn a sort of respect from us that can't. The respect earned from cheating death is far greater than the respect earned from throwing a javelin the farthest. This concept certainly sounds ridiculous to any female ears, and you're the better person for it I suppose, yet it's true for the males (whether they admit it or not).

To illustrate this, I ask a few questions: At Spa, 2000, what made Mika's pass on Mikey the Schu so incredible? What made Senna's wet laps at Donnington so amazing? What made Bellof's charge in the rain-soaked streets of Monaco, in a Tyrrell no less, so jaw-droppingly phenomenal?

[Eric 0]

Eric, I think you're a funny guy, and you make some good posts, but this ain't one of 'em.

HandyNZL, I think you're a boring girl, and you make some terrible posts, and this is two of 'em.

No, I'm kidding about the above. However, I still agree with myself, and if you wanna fight over it...too bad, I don't want to lose.

[HandyNZL 1]

Eric you pansy

[Eric 0]

Eric you pansy

I've gotta admit, that was pretty good.

Anyway, my system that I suggested sort of works in NASCAR. Not saying no drivers talk about safety, because some really are active in it, but NASCAR's R&D Center really makes safety advances, and the drivers aren't very vocal about it, and the ones who are don't seem to be too public. NASCAR sort of took safety matters into its own hands, especially after Earnhardt's death. If I recall correctly, which I'm sure I don't, the use of the HANS device and installing SAFER barriers were really NASCAR's decision, though many were inspired by certain accidents, but the drivers weren't too vocal. They raced, and NASCAR basically took care of the rest. And it's worked. The last time a driver has been seriously injured in NASCAR was 2003, which was before SAFER barriers were at every racetrack. Just my thoughts.

[HandyNZL 1]

A few less variables to worry about in NASCAR though compared to street/circuit racing, but you are correct in what you say Eric. Take two aspirin and see a doctor in the morning

[Eric 0]

A few less variables to worry about in NASCAR though compared to street/circuit racing, but you are correct in what you say Eric. Take two aspirin and see a doctor in the morning

Just curious which variables those are; I really don't know much about road course racing. I think NASCAR's style of racing had more potential to be dangerous the cars travel at high speeds throughout the entire lap at certain tracks, and the walls are right next to the driver, hence there is no runoff room to slow the cars down during an impact. The major potential for danger was also having a drivers' side, as the left side of the car was where the driver was positioned, hence left-side impacts were always worse. While the driver is still on the left side, the bigger COT allowed for them to have more protection there.

Regardless, both have improved considerably in safety, which is a good thing.

Of course, I am probably wrong in my uneducated oval racing ways, but that's kind of the fun of this forum; I'm allowed to be an idiot. This post has at least proven one thing unidiotic about me; I have demonstrated my abilitiy to use a semi-colon.

[Quiet One 15]

Just curious which variables those are; I really don't know much about road course racing. I think NASCAR's style of racing had more potential to be dangerous the cars travel at high speeds throughout the entire lap at certain tracks, and the walls are right next to the driver, hence there is no runoff room to slow the cars down during an impact. The major potential for danger was also having a drivers' side, as the left side of the car was where the driver was positioned, hence left-side impacts were always worse. While the driver is still on the left side, the bigger COT allowed for them to have more protection there.

Regardless, both have improved considerably in safety, which is a good thing.

Of course, I am probably wrong in my uneducated oval racing ways, but that's kind of the fun of this forum; I'm allowed to be an idiot. This post has at least proven one thing unidiotic about me; I have demonstrated my abilitiy to use a semi-colon.

Yet, you used it wrong.

(Missed me?)

[HandyNZL 1]

Just curious which variables those are; I really don't know much about road course racing. I think NASCAR's style of racing had more potential to be dangerous the cars travel at high speeds throughout the entire lap at certain tracks, and the walls are right next to the driver, hence there is no runoff room to slow the cars down during an impact. The major potential for danger was also having a drivers' side, as the left side of the car was where the driver was positioned, hence left-side impacts were always worse. While the driver is still on the left side, the bigger COT allowed for them to have more protection there.

Regardless, both have improved considerably in safety, which is a good thing.

Of course, I am probably wrong in my uneducated oval racing ways, but that's kind of the fun of this forum; I'm allowed to be an idiot. This post has at least proven one thing unidiotic about me; I have demonstrated my abilitiy to use a semi-colon.

And that is the extent of the variables...wall to the right, fast cars to the left...and the majority of hits being glancing, acute angles, rather than head on...though that does happen.

Where as street / circuit racing sometimes the run-off is more dangerous than a wall...ask Timo about his jumps at Aussie, or when a car digs into the gravel and rolls and rolls and rolls. Then you have circuits with walls on both sides, and 90-deg bends and very little run off. Then there are circuits with quick left-right-lefts with 22 cars trying to fit onto the same piece of tarmac. And after all that, the car must be designed to cope with scenrios for all those instances. Versus Nascar cars being built for a smaller amount of variables.

Great use of that semi-colon, Eric

[Eric 0]

And that is the extent of the variables...wall to the right, fast cars to the left...and the majority of hits being glancing, acute angles, rather than head on...though that does happen.

Where as street / circuit racing sometimes the run-off is more dangerous than a wall...ask Timo about his jumps at Aussie, or when a car digs into the gravel and rolls and rolls and rolls. Then you have circuits with walls on both sides, and 90-deg bends and very little run off. Then there are circuits with quick left-right-lefts with 22 cars trying to fit onto the same piece of tarmac. And after all that, the car must be designed to cope with scenrios for all those instances. Versus Nascar cars being built for a smaller amount of variables.

Great use of that semi-colon, Eric

Well, not all ovals are the same, despite common misconception, but yes, I will agree, both are dangerous for a variety of reasons, and that's that. I think if we continue this dicussion, someone, somewhere, will decide it is a "my series is better than your series" war, which it really isn't. Both series suck

Anyway, still, because I cannot emphasize it enough, and have nothing else of importance to say, save your local short tracks and go to the races every week. And save your local short track drivers, too, because you have to. I worry for those guys. They've got it probably the most unsafe, and it just isn't right. I mean it isn't right for a professional to die doing their job, but, you know these things when you choose it as a career. Losing a regular, working class, 9-to-5 5 days a week guy who races on Saturday nights for fun, really, really, hits guys like me hard. Probably because I just have a lot of respect for blue collar guys.

Anyway, I'll conclude with final thoughts:

To make F1 safe, get rid of the god damn bump in that are of Melbourne grass that tried to kill Timo.

To make the IRL safe, ban the series from existing until the new car in 2010.

To make your local short track safe, write them a check for a couple million.

To make NASCAR safe, tell Goodyear to go **** themselves.

[pabloh20 1]

Yet, you used it wrong.

(Missed me?)