Honda - I'm Starting To Suspect

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

Now something rather strange happened between Honda's last tests and the first race - they found at *least* one second a lap out of almost nowhere. Now there's every chance this could be aero revisions but from watching FP1 onwards this weekend I've been starting to wonder if that's all there is to it.

Look at the Honda drivers around the track and you'll notice there's very little slide or wheel spin, and more than once I've noticed the engine making noticeable chattering noises like those of the TC era when they were near a mic. Now it could be my imagination but I'm starting to wonder if they've found some way to bypass the TC ban, and let's face it, neither Honda nor their new signing Brawn have a great track record in honesty and playing by the rules. Does anyone else find what's going on with them ever so slightly suspicious?

[dribbler 6]

No.

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

You're anyone else? You've found a very unified voice. Great discussion too.

[dribbler 6]

Yep.

[Medilloni 6]

Ditto with the No.

[HandyNZL 1]

Of course they've got TC....their ECU was shipped with Windows XP....everyone else has Vista

Could just be the Brawn effect and a positive mood...maybe he spotted something that was a quick fix and able to be brought up to Ferrari spec (you can't say he didn't bring any know how from Ferrari), and thus the handling has come better. Remember Rubes still right foot brakes, so he isn't on the power going into corners that he is braking into...so he's solved the no-TC problems right there. And maybe Jenson is good

[Quiet One 15]

Of course they've got TC....their ECU was shipped with Windows XP....everyone else has Vista

Could just be the Brawn effect and a positive mood...maybe he spotted something that was a quick fix and able to be brought up to Ferrari spec (you can't say he didn't bring any know how from Ferrari), and thus the handling has come better. Remember Rubes still right foot brakes, so he isn't on the power going into corners that he is braking into...so he's solved the no-TC problems right there. And maybe Jenson is good

No, seriously.

[Medilloni 6]

Of course they've got TC....their ECU was shipped with Windows XP....everyone else has Vista

Could just be the Brawn effect and a positive mood...maybe he spotted something that was a quick fix and able to be brought up to Ferrari spec (you can't say he didn't bring any know how from Ferrari), and thus the handling has come better. Remember Rubes still right foot brakes, so he isn't on the power going into corners that he is braking into...so he's solved the no-TC problems right there. And maybe Jenson is good

Yeah, atmosphere and mind set is underestimated. But Liz won't have the Button being good bit

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

Atmosphere and mindset is as maybe but why would that instantly impact on them between the last test and the first race by over a second? And I'll ignore that last suggestion..

[Medilloni 6]

Atmosphere and mindset is as maybe but 1) why would that instantly impact on them between the last test and the first race by over a second? 2) And I'll ignore that last suggestion..

1) I've never put a time to it, but a guess would be - they started with a clean sheet of paper and built a car that could follow a predictable path of development (having to ditch last years dog concept). So, it's possible that the first steps from a good baseline would be large chunks, slowing down to smaller chunklets as the year progresses, and large portion gains are harder to find. BUT, if they carry on achieving large chunks, then maybe they're cheating as much as any other team would like to. But like your first post, mine's only a guess.

2) Alrighty.

[HandyNZL 1]

The first race was a bit of a misnomer really...only P1-P3 were really in the correct positions for their performance...the rest had either good or bad luck because of SC periods. That and only 6/7 finishers a good baseline does not make.

Honda is in the P10-P15 group with Renault, but probably will be a bit more consistent than Renault due to the driver pairing and their experience. The team that has really shot up is actually Toyota...they are knocking on 4th best team TBH, along with RBR and Williams, but again, like Renault, Toyota only has the one experienced driver and as such won't be so consistent in their challenge. Of RBR, Williams, Honda, Toyota, and Renault, all of whom are going to provide us with the best race action thus year, I think its RBR's opportunity to lose 4th in the WDC, and the rest to try hard, but maybe not quite hard enough - due mainly to driver experience differences through the rest of the teams (Honda notwithstanding). Just I think Adrian Neweys gone just a little too close to the edge in terms of component spec (considering we have seen brake and suspension failures on the RBR, and Le Seb was saying he had brake failure (again) that caused his off during qually)

[dribbler 6]

Atmosphere and mindset is as maybe but why would that instantly impact on them between the last test and the first race by over a second? And I'll ignore that last suggestion..

You are assuming that the pace they demonstrated at the last test was their ultimate pace. As we know, they introduced an aero update before the first race and as is the nature of the beast they are probably beginning to understand how to use it properly.

I believe too that Ross is making a big difference and that is having a direct effect. He is guiding them. Did anyone hear the pit radio this morning when he assertively made the suggestion to Jenson that he pick tyre and stick with it? I think, in the end Jenson chose to do something different but the point is Ross is encouraging singularity of thought; picking a direction and sticking with it. Not aimlessly trying different approaches with no yardstick.

I bet it's this approach that has found them the time. He has steered them into a specific area of development that they are going with. Don't ask me to get technical, i don't understand and it's not important. It the work ethic and philosophy that's is.

None of us believe that one man can make a difference and with good reason, we all know it's not as simple as that. But Honda do and that's why they have got him. He's a prize posession and i wouldn't be atall surprised if actually, one man is making a difference.

Remember, a man like Brawn makes a difference to a hundred men. Then you're motor racing.

So as i said earlier, no.

[HandyNZL 1]

I believe too that Ross is making a big difference and that is having a direct effect. He is guiding them. Did anyone hear the pit radio this morning when he assertively made the suggestion to Jenson that he pick tyre and stick with it? I think, in the end Jenson chose to do something different but the point is Ross is encouraging singularity of thought; picking a direction and sticking with it. Not aimlessly trying different approaches with no yardstick.

Ayup

Indeedy

Correctomundo

[Medilloni 6]

You are assuming that the pace they demonstrated at the last test was their ultimate pace. As we know, they introduced an aero update before the first race and as is the nature of the beast they are probably beginning to understand how to use it properly.

I believe too that Ross is making a big difference and that is having a direct effect. He is guiding them. Did anyone hear the pit radio this morning when he assertively made the suggestion to Jenson that he pick tyre and stick with it? I think, in the end Jenson chose to do something different but the point is Ross is encouraging singularity of thought; picking a direction and sticking with it. Not aimlessly trying different approaches with no yardstick.

I bet it's this approach that has found them the time. He has steered them into a specific area of development that they are going with. Don't ask me to get technical, i don't understand and it's not important. It the work ethic and philosophy that's is.

None of us believe that one man can make a difference and with good reason, we all know it's not as simple as that. But Honda do and that's why they have got him. He's a prize posession and i wouldn't be atall surprised if actually, one man is making a difference.

Remember, a man like Brawn makes a difference to a hundred men. Then you're motor racing.

So as i said earlier, no.

If a post was food, that was truly scrumptious.

[Rainmaster 7]

I think Honda have improved, for me it's that simple, added to the fact that Button is extremely smooth and there you go.

I could be wrong, maybe they are cheating, but I doubt it.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Now something rather strange happened between Honda's last tests and the first race - they found at *least* one second a lap out of almost nowhere. Now there's every chance this could be aero revisions but from watching FP1 onwards this weekend I've been starting to wonder if that's all there is to it.

Look at the Honda drivers around the track and you'll notice there's very little slide or wheel spin, and more than once I've noticed the engine making noticeable chattering noises like those of the TC era when they were near a mic. Now it could be my imagination but I'm starting to wonder if they've found some way to bypass the TC ban, and let's face it, neither Honda nor their new signing Brawn have a great track record in honesty and playing by the rules. Does anyone else find what's going on with them ever so slightly suspicious?

I didnt notice the engine noise but I will try to in the race tomorrow. But what I would say is that if the engine was making TC noises & Honda were cheating, surely they wouldnt send the cars out making these noises, cos that would be blatant cheating & asking to be caught. No-one in F1 has said anything so I'm pretty sure there is nothing to worry about.

ALSO even with TC you could almost never hear TC noises from Jensons car anyway (I listened last year at silverstone! Kubica used it the most, by far). Plus Jenson is ultra-smooth and so you will rarely ever see him sliding around.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I think BAR only ever 'cheated' once, in 2005 with the fuel tank situation at Imola

[David Adams 0]

I agree with most of the above, they fixed the flaw in their wind tunnel, hired more staff, found the problems and came up with mathematically fixes to the problems. Like BMW, they started winter testing with a dog of a car, from what the drivers said - then after 1 good update the car was massively better, and look at them now!

Ross Brawn said all of this with an interview for ITV in the pre-season, so its just all of the above really, you can't just make a dog of a car every year

Im still pretty shocked that Honda didn't just ditch the car last season and go with a clean sheet earlier!

[hookedon-f1 0]

I agree that I think they have made a big step forward. Ross is bringing unity to the team and as mentioned before regarding the radio feed earlier today. He is providing them with DIRECTION which is what they were lacking before. IE. lets try this if it doesnt well try something else. and they were just jumping around too much. the old saying comes to mind Too many cooks.......... Now there is one cook and he seems to be putting together a winning receipe....... They are going in the right direction now which is forward and are not the "backmarkers" that they looked like in pre season testing!!!

Good on you ROSS !!!!!

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

I didnt notice the engine noise but I will try to in the race tomorrow. But what I would say is that if the engine was making TC noises & Honda were cheating, surely they wouldnt send the cars out making these noises, cos that would be blatant cheating & asking to be caught. No-one in F1 has said anything so I'm pretty sure there is nothing to worry about.

ALSO even with TC you could almost never hear TC noises from Jensons car anyway (I listened last year at silverstone! Kubica used it the most, by far). Plus Jenson is ultra-smooth and so you will rarely ever see him sliding around.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I think BAR only ever 'cheated' once, in 2005 with the fuel tank situation at Imola

Well there was the torque transfer system which they never told the FIA about resulting in it being banned for one. Also, Jarno Trulli has already mentioned he has suspicions over certain cars out there.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

What a s##t thread this is!!! How they could get away with TC is beyond me since they now all have the EXACT same ECU! They are not cheating, and if you paid attention to the pre-season you would know the car launched in January was NOT the car that would be appearing in Melbourne. The developments introduced at their Jerez test were planned, the launched car was the base for which they would work on and add to, to improve.

Not only that Jenson hardly needed the TC in the first place so his speed and little sliding is down to his smooth driving style. He is not an aggressive driver like a lot of the others thus he has a gentler, smoother approach to his driving!

Again let me just say, this is the most pointless, ridiculous thread I have seen on here since my drunken threads!!!

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

Who'd have thought you'd get that reaction from someone with the name like 'Jenson rules'? Amazing! And suggesting that the ECU is almighty and impenetrable is extremely naive.

[Quiet One 15]

What a s##t thread this is!!! How they could get away with TC is beyond me since they now all have the EXACT same ECU! They are not cheating, and if you paid attention to the pre-season you would know the car launched in January was NOT the car that would be appearing in Melbourne. The developments introduced at their Jerez test were planned, the launched car was the base for which they would work on and add to, to improve.

Not only that Jenson hardly needed the TC in the first place so his speed and little sliding is down to his smooth driving style. He is not an aggressive driver like a lot of the others thus he has a gentler, smoother approach to his driving!

Again let me just say, this is the most pointless, ridiculous thread I have seen on here since my drunken threads!!!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

What would be the point in running the cars with TC for Honda! They are not stupid enough to think they could get away with it. Your conspiracy theory is so farfetched it is not worth a thread.

And my personal Bias toward Jenson is no worse than your personal bias against him! Hence why you feel the need to come up with conspiracy theories because you don't pay attention in the pre-season and read up on what the teams are testing and what developments they have coming etc!

[HandyNZL 1]

Meow...a cat fight!

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

What would be the point in running the cars with TC for Honda! They are not stupid enough to think they could get away with it. Your conspiracy theory is so farfetched it is not worth a thread.

And my personal Bias toward Jenson is no worse than your personal bias against him! Hence why you feel the need to come up with conspiracy theories because you don't pay attention in the pre-season and read up on what the teams are testing and what developments they have coming etc!

Erm, yes, my conspiracy theory... and my clear attempt to smudge Jenson's amazing reputation...

I'm gonna go over there now. Don't follow me.