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goferrarigo

Mosley Vows To Quit In 2009

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Wasn't talking about you, but about Murray Walker and Cavallino (FIA Ferrari subsidies).

Ahh, alright, my bad. The whole >^ thing confuses me. What exactly does it mean?

By the way, you'd know better than I would, did the 1988 cars have active suspension, TC, etc? Just curious, I was driving a sim version of them on rFactor, and they were hella fun to drive. If they did have them, that may change my mind a bit.

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Indeed, that's the annoying thing. Every single vocal critic of Mosley who has jumped at this has an agenda, I haven't seen a single person of principle make a good point. Which is because a person of principle would be obliged to defend Mosley.

Even the posters here don't realize the ludicrousness of their statements, most want Mosley to go for other reasons, and are rather conveniently jumping on this. And they are inordinately proud of their hypocrisy.

I wanted him to go before this 'scandal' and I still want him to go now. There is no hypocrisy in that.

How would a person of principle defend him exactly?

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Ahh, alright, my bad. The whole >^ thing confuses me. What exactly does it mean?

By the way, you'd know better than I would, did the 1988 cars have active suspension, TC, etc? Just curious, I was driving a sim version of them on rFactor, and they were hella fun to drive. If they did have them, that may change my mind a bit.

The 1987 cars of Lotus and Williams did active suspensions, but not the 88 ones. The 84 to 88 turbo cars had electronic active fuel management. The intelligent fuel management and predicting gave "more power per hour" (in the words of Clive James) and told the drivers how to drive.

Without such electronics, due to the fuel rules, the mighty turbo cars would have NOT been faster then say ...a 2 stroke Trabant.

After the ban of the turbos, after a hard work of ... 15 minutes of coding, fuel control became LC/TC.

The first known cars to have TC/LC were the 1990 Ferraris of Prost and Mansell; although some sources say that it was there since the 1980s on some cars (witch considering the murky-ness of the era could very well be true).

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How would a person of principle defend him exactly?

Because there's a principle at stake here. Would the people jumping on this be happy to have their own private lives invaded in such a way? I remember someone said that if it had been his wife in the video, they'd be happy for Mosley to stay and for NOTW to pay heavy damages. So you only have the right to privacy if you're legally married, everything else you do, you might as well do it in a public park, since anyone can film it without facing any sanction?

As for the Nazi sympathizer claims, what people forget is these are substantial claims. To brand someone a Nazi sympathizer is a very serious thing. It is not the kind of judgement we can leave to dubious trashy tabloids. You think he's a nazi sypathizer, fine. You better have more than a stupid sensationalisednews report and a vague unindicative video to base that on. Claims of that magnitude deserve to be treated with utmost seriousness and rigour, it is not and should not be the domain of the likes of NOTW. That is the principle. And it's worth standing up for. I don't know if Mosley is a nazi sympathizer. If anyone is willing to investigate that within the limits of the law, I would be glad. However I'll be damned if I am seen standing exhorting the claims of those pathetic reports as so many people proudly are.

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Apparently he gets 7 letters of support from council memebers for every letter of asking him to step down...

Indeed, according to himself. Anyway Todt has finally voiced support for him, which counts for a fair bit I'd imagine.

I wanted him to go before this 'scandal' and I still want him to go now. There is no hypocrisy in that.

How would a person of principle defend him exactly?

Yeah I gotta admit I'm struggling with the accusations of hypocrisy here :eusa_think:

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For the clue-challenged: I could give a rat's arse about what he does in his own bedroom/hotel room/dungeon.

I want him to step down because he's a useless git that has managed to ruin racing while helping to make it a viable business venture.

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May you all judge me on my one inch carrots whilst ignoring my marrow the size of a small house.

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Because there's a principle at stake here. Would the people jumping on this be happy to have their own private lives invaded in such a way? I remember someone said that if it had been his wife in the video, they'd be happy for Mosley to stay and for NOTW to pay heavy damages. So you only have the right to privacy if you're legally married, everything else you do, you might as well do it in a public park, since anyone can film it without facing any sanction?

As for the Nazi sympathizer claims, what people forget is these are substantial claims. To brand someone a Nazi sympathizer is a very serious thing. It is not the kind of judgement we can leave to dubious trashy tabloids. You think he's a nazi sypathizer, fine. You better have more than a stupid sensationalisednews report and a vague unindicative video to base that on. Claims of that magnitude deserve to be treated with utmost seriousness and rigour, it is not and should not be the domain of the likes of NOTW. That is the principle. And it's worth standing up for. I don't know if Mosley is a nazi sympathizer. If anyone is willing to investigate that within the limits of the law, I would be glad. However I'll be damned if I am seen standing exhorting the claims of those pathetic reports as so many people proudly are.

I agree that the Nazi claims almost certainly false. But prostitution itself is at BEST a legal grey area, and in my view extremely morally questionable. You may not agree, but a public figure IMO cannot be seen to be supporting an industry with links to organised crime and which in many (even most) cases is essentially sexual slavery.

I agree that he was pretty much set up by the tabloid in question, and that is effectively entrapment. I don't buy this "in the public interest" nonsense that they spout. But what's done is done- the story is now in the open. Max isn't going to get his respect back, and it is going to negatively impact his ability to do his job.

He needs to step down.

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I still refuse to live in the real world. I ill fight for my idealistic society that allows men their mistakes. I have no idea why i support it and know that my support for him is unreasnoble and irrational. For the world that we actually live in, Moseley must go. In my world however, he would be slapped on the back, fed wine and given the choice of a plethora of virgin prostitutes. He would pay handsomely, i would be rich,i would divide my good fortune amongst us all and we would not have to work again. We would talk, drink and be merry in the sunshine. Only then would you see it my way.

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Because there's a principle at stake here. Would the people jumping on this be happy to have their own private lives invaded in such a way? I remember someone said that if it had been his wife in the video, they'd be happy for Mosley to stay and for NOTW to pay heavy damages. So you only have the right to privacy if you're legally married, everything else you do, you might as well do it in a public park, since anyone can film it without facing any sanction?

As for the Nazi sympathizer claims, what people forget is these are substantial claims. To brand someone a Nazi sympathizer is a very serious thing. It is not the kind of judgement we can leave to dubious trashy tabloids. You think he's a nazi sypathizer, fine. You better have more than a stupid sensationalisednews report and a vague unindicative video to base that on. Claims of that magnitude deserve to be treated with utmost seriousness and rigour, it is not and should not be the domain of the likes of NOTW. That is the principle. And it's worth standing up for. I don't know if Mosley is a nazi sympathizer. If anyone is willing to investigate that within the limits of the law, I would be glad. However I'll be damned if I am seen standing exhorting the claims of those pathetic reports as so many people proudly are.

As soon as he stepped into the door, it ceased to be a private matter. It was purely egocentricity on Max's behalf that made him think he could control at least 5 other individuals to the extent that nobody would blab. Talk about stupidity. Even I would accept that if I got caught playing in a nazi uniform with 5 prostitutes that there would be repercussions, even in my fairly anonymous life.

You only have to look at is actions since the incident to realise what sort of person he is. So no, I cannot defend him on principle, because by my principles I think he was wrong.

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As soon as he stepped into the door, it ceased to be a private matter. It was purely egocentricity on Max's behalf that made him think he could control at least 5 other individuals to the extent that nobody would blab. Talk about stupidity. Even I would accept that if I got caught playing in a nazi uniform with 5 prostitutes that there would be repercussions, even in my fairly anonymous life.

You only have to look at is actions since the incident to realise what sort of person he is. So no, I cannot defend him on principle, because by my principles I think he was wrong.

Ahh, what happens when you keep your brains in your penis.........

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I still refuse to live in the real world. I ill fight for my idealistic society that allows men their mistakes. I have no idea why i support it and know that my support for him is unreasnoble and irrational. For the world that we actually live in, Moseley must go. In my world however, he would be slapped on the back, fed wine and given the choice of a plethora of virgin prostitutes. He would pay handsomely, i would be rich,i would divide my good fortune amongst us all and we would not have to work again. We would talk, drink and be merry in the sunshine. Only then would you see it my way.

I have no problem with people making mistakes, but you have to own up to your mistakes.

In this case if Max had done this once and got caught, which is unlikely considering the cries of entrapment, I would say that was a mistake. If he's been doing it on a regular basis, then it is beyond the realms of a mistake.

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Ahh, what happens when you keep your brains in your penis.........

Well, it must be very small then. The brain, damn you filthy lot, the brain!!! :lol:

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I must say that the 1st hour of the Long Beach GP in the Champ Cars was far better motorsport than what we get in 1.75hrs of F1, and if the reason for that is Max Mosley, then he has fundamentally screwed up F1.

So thats why he AND Bernie need to go. Money schmoney, bring back motorsport.

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I must say that the 1st hour of the Long Beach GP in the Champ Cars was far better motorsport than what we get in 1.75hrs of F1, and if the reason for that is Max Mosley, then he has fundamentally screwed up F1.

So thats why he AND Bernie need to go. Money schmoney, bring back motorsport.

That's saying a lot. The LBGP was close to a snoozer. The only real excitement was Power's blast to the lead at the start and Rahal duking it out with Montagny. Other than that, I don't really remember anything else that was too significant.

But yeah, it was better than an F1 race, but it wasn't as good as the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg IRL race two weeks ago. That was a good race.

Yeah, they've ruined the sport. Let's can 'em. I'll be in charge of stuff, and you can be in charge of the other stuff. Sound good?

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Will my stuff include hot pants and boob-tubes? You can handle everything else, and I'll just handle the grid girls...deal?

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Will my stuff include hot pants and boob-tubes? You can handle everything else, and I'll just handle the grid girls...deal?

Grid girls? Well, I was going to ban them! I'd much rather look at Norbert Haug before a race, afterall.

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You look at him, and I'll handle the grid girls.....I never said that they would be on the grid...just that I'd handle them :P

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You look at him, and I'll handle the grid girls.....I never said that they would be on the grid...just that I'd handle them :P

No, sorry Handy. Your ex-wife's boyfriend will be in charge of handling grid girls. You'll be in charge of diaper duties for a select few drivers.

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I agree with Abeer, Graham and Steve (to some extent), I think Max should stay and carry on, he has done a decent deal for F1, not the best but what he thought would be best... All the people jumping on a news report and a probably altered video of Max have too many hidden motives as mentioned in this thread, and to kick a man when he down is not a very good thing to do... If you want him to step down call for it when the scandal is over now in the middle of it.

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Not kick a man when he's down?!?!?!?!? What planet are you living on?!?!?!?!?

When I see a man lying down, even if he is across the street of a four lane highway, I make it my mission to get over there and kick him in the goolies before he has a chance of getting up....

:P:P

Eric...how mean of you...not fair if he gets to handle the grid girls AND my wife too! You big fat meanie mean guy man dude meanie. :P

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I agree with Abeer, Graham and Steve (to some extent), I think Max should stay and carry on, he has done a decent deal for F1, not the best but what he thought would be best... All the people jumping on a news report and a probably altered video of Max have too many hidden motives as mentioned in this thread, and to kick a man when he down is not a very good thing to do... If you want him to step down call for it when the scandal is over now in the middle of it.

I guess that's where our opinions differ. I don't think he has done what he thought was best for motorsport, I think he has done what is best for his own personal agenda, whatever that may be. In my own mind, I am convinced that anybody with a reasonable amount of intellgience and a lot more passion for motorsport could have done a better job.

We have differing opinions of 'a man who is down' too :lol:

I would very surprised if this is anything more than a ruse to sway the vote in his favour, on the grounds that he is going to stand down next year anyway. I guess he has some 'unfinished business' that he can't complete before June :whistling:

I really can't think why else he would say that there is a lesson to be learnt from Blair, in that as soon as you announce you are stepping down you lose power and then goes ahead and announces that he is stepping down. That makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe it was a senior moment! :lol:

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I agree that the Nazi claims almost certainly false. But prostitution itself is at BEST a legal grey area, and in my view extremely morally questionable. You may not agree, but a public figure IMO cannot be seen to be supporting an industry with links to organised crime and which in many (even most) cases is essentially sexual slavery.

I agree that he was pretty much set up by the tabloid in question, and that is effectively entrapment. I don't buy this "in the public interest" nonsense that they spout. But what's done is done- the story is now in the open. Max isn't going to get his respect back, and it is going to negatively impact his ability to do his job.

He needs to step down.

Well I certainly agree that prostitution causes an awful lot of suffering and using a prostitute is morally dubious. I've always agreed that he was probably wrong to do that, and certainly wrong to cheat on his wife, if he even did, which we don't know at all. It should be said, as an aside, that prostitution is completely legal in Britain, and the hurt he's probably caused his family is a private matter and probably not something they would want discussed as it has been on here for example. I tend to think it's unlikely that Max was personally using sex slaves, or anyone involved in organised crime, but in any case it's not really for us to say, and don't forget F1 itself has also had its fair share of links to harmful industries like the tobacco sponsorship. Also a fascinating question is whether condemning prostitution like this helps or hurts women: personally I lean towards the second view. But my real objection is that people have reacted in a judgmental, vindictive and hypocritical way.

Public figures have labeled him "sick and depraved", "appalling", "insulting to millions", "a neo-Nazi sado-masochistic pervert". People have taken (perverse?) delight in exposing and ridiculing his flaws. Sure he did some wrong things, but little worse than the average person has done imho. We all turn a blind eye to far more suffering in Africa than prostitution ever caused, so I wouldn't like to throw the first stone at Moseley.

I must say that the 1st hour of the Long Beach GP in the Champ Cars was far better motorsport than what we get in 1.75hrs of F1, and if the reason for that is Max Mosley, then he has fundamentally screwed up F1.

So thats why he AND Bernie need to go. Money schmoney, bring back motorsport.

Wrong. Bernie and Max have both tried to make F1 more like CCWS, only to be thwarted by the manufacturers and teams, ie precisely the people who want Moseley to go, funnily enough! I've been trying to explain this for months but so far you could count the number of people who understand on the butt cheeks of a cheap half-arsed hooker.

I agree with Abeer, Graham and Steve (to some extent), I think Max should stay and carry on, he has done a decent deal for F1, not the best but what he thought would be best... All the people jumping on a news report and a probably altered video of Max have too many hidden motives as mentioned in this thread, and to kick a man when he down is not a very good thing to do... If you want him to step down call for it when the scandal is over now in the middle of it.

Good man, Ankit. You're spot on there. I don't like the way he's been treated and I object to the self-interested and vindictive witch hunt.

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