Cost Cutting in F1

[rodders47 2]

Ever since F1 was introduced the benefits from this form of motor racing has been passed down to the every day Motor car. i.e Disk Brakes, multi vale engines, radial Ply Tyres etc etc. to name but a few of Major benefits, and that has been very good for both the environment and the Motoring public. BUT

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

Well actually ABS isn't allowed for one simple fact - it makes racing harder. Drivers like to have their brakes totally under their control, allowing them to brake later by locking a tyre or two.

[nichosnz 0]

If you can find some system for policing the use of the "Computer controll of the Driving" that will work every time and for a long enough period of time to allow improvement to the checks to be made, then you are doing better than the FIA.  That's the major reason these gadgets are allowed in the first place.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

Very true, because the software people at the teams are so #### good at what they do to hide it all. Even the best hackers out there working for the US or Russian governments would have trouble finding them. The simplest thing that the team's engineers can do is have the hard drive of the onboard computer empty itself when the car stops, and if that happens on the grid then they find some way to put the stuff back in when they restart the car.

[nichosnz 0]

A program that deletes another group of programs or parts of programs, and then "self destructs" would be quite easy to write.

[rodders47 2]

so then YOU are saying that a driver of an F1 car can apply the brakes to EACH individual wheel !!!!!  I doubt that, even though he is supreme in his sport, I cannot visualise the mechanical linkage that would allow him to select which wheel to apply the brakes harder then the other wheel !! ABS works by Computer  !!!

[nichosnz 0]

No I'm not going that far, but I am saying a worldclass driver can read the conditions better than any computer can.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

What nichosnz is saying is that sometimes in variable conditions it is better to be able to control the brakes all by yourself. ABS will keep your wheels from locking, but also slow stoppage time to keep them from locking. A driver may in a given situation brake real late but still make the corner as he locks it up into a corner briefly.

The good drivers can simulate an ABS type situation by stomping on the brakes and when they feel it locking, let go and do it all over again in a very fast succession. It's all about feel, and this skill needs a lot of practice. A LOT, I'd say only 25% of the F1 drivers brake like that, everyone else pushes hard but no stomp, then eases off and so on.

[nichosnz 0]

Almost perfectly Jens, thank you.  I myself have pulled it off twice.  The first time I actually suprised myself once I realised what I had done.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

This is how the 'slide effect' is achieved, I do it all the time when driving on and off track (not in traffic though LOL).

[rodders47 2]

well folks all I can say is that YOU are all losing the fundamentals of Motor Racing, as a guy of 54 , ME , knows it , that is well the driver,steerer, pilot, call him what you like , SHOULD be in total control of the car , not some bloody computer that is programmed by some " Expert " in the pits .. all this "Traction Control" etc etc just makes it easier for the driver to apply the enormous power at his virtual finger tips to the ground VIA a computer !!!!!! so why not be like aircraft, they HAVE the ability to move, take-off- fly to destination and LAND without any one in the c##Kpit, but would YOU take that flight !!!! Think about it !!! would YOU trust YOUR life on a computer ?? I doubt it so why should F1 be any different.. like s##t what is wrong with selecting gears by hand , braking as hard as the wheels will allow, applying enough throttle on start that will not spin the wheels ? after all is that not the challenge of DRIVING a race car, or have I in my 40 odd yrs of being involved in Motor Racing lost the plot !!!!!!!!

[nichosnz 0]

Hey man, I agree that would is better if these things weren't present in the sport. But I for one (and due to the curret reg's I seem to be in the majority) would rather see driver aids legally used, than constant accusations of them being illegally used.

[rodders47 2]

yes, the controlling Body KNEW the top teams were using some form of Traction Control so they Legalised it so that All the teams could use it ...

But I have to say after watching years of F 1 on Tv the last few years have been BORING to say the least.. Back in the days of say Allan Jones etc they RACED and PASSED on the track.. The old saying to finish first , first you have to finish is somewhat applicable but add to that if you lead in the first corner chanches are you will win if you are M.S that is and in a Ferrari.

I personally would love to BAN all pit stops for tyres/refueling etc.. my logic in saying that is just that Logic... Too much emphasis is placed on the pit stops like are they 1 stopping or 2 stopping, like who gives a hoot let the DRIVER drive.. the car CAN be built with larger fuel tanks and yes it would make the first sector of the race slower but well in my mind who cares as all the competitors would be in the same boat !!!!

[nichosnz 0]

Ban pit stops for fueling, I can understand that view. Ban pit spots for tires, so would that make tyres that puncture, delaminate etc and retirement situation, I disagree with that.

I wasn't watching F1 at the time, so I'm going by what I've read here. The reason Pitstops became encouraged is because overtaking was down and so most position changes were driver error or retirement. We still have those and now we have pitstop changes and even passing on track made possible by different strategies. Don't get me wrong I love 'real' passing, one of my favourite peices of film is Villeneuve vs. Arnoux at Dijon in 1979. But the design of cars (seeming) since the mid 80's has preventend/deterred drivers from even trying.

I theory at least, I agree with almost everthing you are saying, but you can't uninvent technology. If advanced electronics (and a few other things) were banned F1 would loose it's title as the pinnacle of motorsport, so two sayings come to mind...

Catch 22

and

"If you fool around with a thing for very long, you will screw it up" Murphy

[rodders47 2]

Hi nicho

Well by banning pit stops , the competitors would loose out if they blew/shredded/or cut a tyre, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IF THEY STICK IT IN THE SAND PIT ? I think not myself, is called motor racing and one small mistake/bad luck is well time for a shower :-)

Rod