TotalF1 Jens 0 Report post Posted May 30, 2001 I really think that Jaguar are improving. That isnt only based on their first podium, but if you just look at the performance that they showed in testing today you'll get my point. I really like Jaguar, I hope they can get up there to challenge for wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jagman 0 Report post Posted May 30, 2001 I agree Jens, but of course I am a bit biased! lets hope its not a flash in the pan, it would be great if say, Jaguar, Jordan and Williams all got up there and slugged it out with the Macs and Ferrari's. Come to think of it, it would be great if all 11 teams could fight at the top! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 Jens 0 Report post Posted May 30, 2001 You know that is what I really wish for, above anything else, is that all 11-12 teams in F1 would be championship contenders. Really it would be SO great, since no race could be easily predicted and everyone would be keeping on their toes throughout the whole season! NASCAR Winston Cup (which i HATE) has that good quality. Any car can win, but that is because they are stock cars andno real aerodynamic gains or anything can be made as the cars are pretty much the same. In F1, the richer teams have the advantage because they can research better. But it would be excellent if McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Jordan, Benetton, Jaguar, and Sauber could be fighting at the top. Those 7 are the teams in F1 who at this point are really the people who will win championships. I say Benetton in there too since they will improve, they have a great backing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted May 30, 2001 I too would like to see all the teams contending but I think that it would make for more boring races & many more accidents. My reasoning goes this way: At present most position fights are between two or at the most three cars. This applies right through the field, so you have five or six separate scraps. If everyone was equal in performance then you would get a 22 car crocodile as most of the F1 circuits are so difficult to pass on. The best drivers would probably still win (depending on qualifying) but at the loss of spectacle & excitement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted May 30, 2001 Sauber will never win championships - I don't even know about race wins...and Jaguar? Not until they get rid of their resident waster... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Jaguar's main problem is the Ford connection which limits them to the Cosworth. The following engine table shows even Petronas is way ahead in race finish reliability. PlaceAfter round 6 1Ferrari189 2Mercedes160 3Petronas135 4Honda129.5 5Acer123 6Asiatech71 7Cosworth68 8European63 9BMW61 10Renault51 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudhir 0 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 great news for all jaguar fans out there!!! newey's supposed to join jaguar in 2002....... it will be interesting to watch jaguar under the best design engineer in the world.with mclaren, he built the best car on the grid and it will be interesting to see if he does the same for jaguar. 2002 will be thrilling if we have ferrari, mclaren,williams,jaguar fighting .let's wait and see.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 He doesn't do engines, unfortunately... The Petronas SHOULD be reliable - it's last year's Ferari 049! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2001 I have just read the news item about Jaguar sueing Newey. Or should that be Ford & their man Rahal. First Ford start this stupid rival series idea & now the sport must spend time & money in the courts. Trust a Yank to descend into litigation. I'm trying to be a little circumspect in my post but the Americans are not fit to run a poultry raffle at KFC, all they can do is try to screw up a great sport with a long history & tradition for some short term gain. That is unless Bobby's appointment etc was part of a plan to ruin F1 & replace it with the truly pathetic 22 second lap cart series. Originally I was keen on seeing Jaguar do well but now I hope they sink without trace. Go Saddam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted June 6, 2001 I have never really liked BAR or Jaguar because of the way they have done certain things, but if Newey has signed a deal and reneged, they should pursue it as far as possible, because it's just not right that people are ignoring supposedly binding contracts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2001 That's IF it was a binding contract & not something dreamed up by the Ford team. Oh & aren't Jaguar the people who sack people for having a private life not in keeping with current American moral attitudes which makes it OK to bomb people & use land mines but not to enjoy a commercial hetrosexual relationship. BAR another Yank outfit, surprise, surprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted June 15, 2001 Now that Adrian, Bobby & Frank have kissed & made up let's hope Jaguar will get on with their core business of racing motor cars. Now if only they could get a decent engine!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milionis Leonidas 0 Report post Posted June 15, 2001 First of all Geoff+Sandy you have some really great comments on this topic, which I especially enjoyed, and I agree with you at the most. The only thing that I don't know and want to learn is what Jaguar gained from the all story. They won't convince us that they just accepted the apology of McLaren. They were screaming and threatening for at least one weak, and then they accepted just an apology? Who are they trying to fool here? You know what I think, nobody. I believe they know that noone is going to eat this, but they just don't care, since they got what they wanted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted June 15, 2001 McLaren will have given them a load of money, and perhaps something else to bribe them...they must have done something good to throw them off the scent like that - perhaps they even didn't have a very good case for keeping Newey... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2001 Unless, of course Jaguar didn't have much of a hold on Newey & decided to cut their losses. Also the case was held in Britain where loudmouth Yank lawyers don't have much influence. Maybe McLaren have promised them Hakkinen for next year? Stranger things have happened in F1. With the Ford connection they are tied to the Cosworth engine though. There was something about Ford buying some electronics company which is a major supplier of F1 equipment. Some deal there perhaps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2001 Newey loves Hakkinen, so I doubt there would be any trade like that...I just think McLaren showed a bit of muscle and scared Jaguar off - of course you have to look at the bigger picture and think about the impact a feud between DaimlerChrysler and Ford divisions would bring - they might be doing some kind of deal somewhere... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeoffandSandy 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2001 Somewhere along the way I've lost track of who Daimler Chrysler are & their connection to F1. Would someone please let me know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milionis Leonidas 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2001 From my point of view, it's quite certain that Jaguar gained something. I believe that if they didn't have any real hold on Newey they wouldn't press so much for court interference, and when they got there take the claims back. They didn't have a bidding contract, but they certainly had something. Now to what was their gift, I can't say. It might be Hakkinen, since I am sure McLaren wants to get rid of him next year, eventhough he was the 'beloved son' till now. It might even be DC, if they are planning to back up Mika for WDC next year they will have a problem with DC, and they know it. It might be technology. With Ferrari having one or two 'alliances' on technology (mainly Prost), McLaren might want to make one too, in order to learn more about Michelin. They know that the next year will be perhaps the most challeging of F1's new age. So I'm sure they made an agreement, the nature of which it might be hard to learn. But I can't blame them, I just don' t like to be taken for a fool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotalF1 SamB 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2001 There will be no kind of alliance like that, because both teams are represented by manufacturers. Ferrari can use Prost as a testing bed to gain information about certain systems, as well as the Michelin tyres, but McLaren and Jaguar represent the might of DaimlerChrysler and Ford respectively - they won't want to ally! GaS - DaimlerChrysler is yet another huge conglomeration of car manufacturers, and one part of this is the Mercedes company, just as Ford use the Jaguar name for promotion purposes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milionis Leonidas 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2001 I only knew that Crysler was an American car manufacturer, so you are probably right. But to tell the truth even the strangest of alliances would not surprise me these days. Is BMW on the Crysler coglomeration? I have red some weeks ago that Mercedes offered them an alliance against Ferrari, not that this could happen, but is it true? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
