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jagman

JPM's penalty

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Can anybody give me an insight into why Montoya was penalised with a pit lane drive through after he and schuey made contact?

To me, I cannot see any reason what so ever why he was penalised.  Maybe they dont like drivers actually racing each other anymore or something....

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No reason at all, except that Schumi was involved so the other driver MUST be at fault. I mean did you see the move Schumi pulled on Montoya right off the grid, swinging right in front of him, so I mean if Montoya did anything the two drivers actions shouldve cancelled out each other leaving no penalties to be awarded...

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Come on Jens we should all know by now that the swinging right in front of him move is never penalised* so Montoya actions have nothing to cancel out with.

You've hit the nail on the head jagman, 'they don't like each other racing anymore' Max is always going on about making the show safer.  If the cars don't race wheel to wheel that's just one more step toward making F1 completly safe, isn't it.

*MS knows it or else wht would he keep doing it, and DC knows it too I recall a race in the last couple of years when DC complained about the move one race, then returned the favour in the next one (he also was not penalised for it).

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ms's is a stpid moron. as it was sid in another thread if he had clipped juan he would of caused a bigger crash then in the aussie gp so it was vey dagerous and thats theworst starting move he has pulled yet what will it be next huh? maybe the perso in 2nd gets a good start and he swerves to cover him but 3rd ets a good start so he swerves back come on there's got to be a stop to this type of move in f1.   :angry:

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I would like to see there being no rules on the track as to defending your spot, but of course there should be rules like no intentional punting off the track and so... would be a crazy change!

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i didn't say the swerve made it happen although it still was a close call that could have been a bad crash. but even button who was right behind them said it was ms's fault and i think he wold have a better view then us and the majority seem to beleave it was ms's fault. The only reason everyone won't say it was his fault is coz he is "god" hahaha i fail to see why he is so good.

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The only reason Button said that it was MS's fault is because he's got a serious case of sour grapes over being passed on the last lap. As for not knowing why schumie is so good - open your eyes. 54 victories and 4 WDC is why he is so good!!!

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See how Schuey said that after watching the race reply he was 'amazed at how little room he was left'.

He must have had a different replay than what I saw...

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yeah a totally different replay then me too.

button is right for sure.

and daz open your eyes 54 victories and 4wdc, but he cheated to get a couple off those wdc 94 was one off em

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gotta agree with daz here

even though Schuey has had a few 'blemishes' in his time, he is definitely the best driver of this era...

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I agree jagman, but Jordan_rule seems like the kind of guy that in the following scenario would somehow accuse MS of cheating

Last race M Schumacher leads Montoya by 1 point, M Schumacher out of the race parked up an escape road, Montoya has more wins so 6th place will win him the championship, but Montoya loses control and crashes into Schumachers parked car, M Schumacher is WDC.

MS still cheated somehow didn't he J_r, tell me how though.

but he cheated to get a couple off those wdc 94 was one off em

The only other time that I can think of was Jerez 1997 but Villeneuve got WDC, so find out when and tell me.  The other three he won all with races to spare a little harder to accuse of cheating.

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In 2000 he benefited from Mercedes unreliability. Thats just how it is, I mean had Hakkinen's engine not blown in Australia, Brazil, and Indianapolis(all races MS won) then Mika wouldve had 30 more points and Schumi quite a few less... think about that.

In reality Schumi is only a two-time WC on his on merit.

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guys,

it's simple. do u know abt the word called lobbying? it's just that. ferrari excel at it in the pit lane and so can effectively throttle any opponent over a fault. they've done it to mclaren b4, remember the wing case??? ??? now it's williams turn. this way they also can rack up so many championships easily. one fine reason why i will never be a red 'idiot' thru my life. and as far as the stewards r concerned, they r shoo-me's pussy cats, i'd've used more colourful language but civility and the 21st century stop me. so what's ur take on mine given this issue??? :D will honesty pay :)

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daz, buddy,

i got nothing against u but on this issue u seem to be driving 'blinds on'. please watch the replays and tell me if u still hv the same opinion on button. poor fella, that was really hard on him. good luck to all good people. :D

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Look I also felt sorry for Button's cruel blow but what should be remembered is that you've got to cross the line ahead of the next guy to collect the points. It's not Schumies fault if Renault didn't build a car that could last the whole race. Jens - the same rule applies to the Hakkinen situation you bring up. I can think of many a situation where Schumie has also being in points scoring positions and being let down by his machinery (eg. Hockenheim last year). The world is full of "what if's" (eg. what if Schumie hadn't broken his leg at Silverstone '99 - then he would most likely be a 5 time WDC and Hakkinen a single WDC). So you cannot honestly use the "what if" Hakkinen hadn't blown his engine excuse on me to try and justify why Scumie didn't deserv his '00 title. It really doesn't matter if you like him or not but the reality of the situation is that Schumie has the ability to get the best out of any situation and his record clearly shows that.

As for the JPM's penalty - I've already gone on record saying that I felt it was ridiculous. But don't go trying to blame Schumie for what was obviously a decision made by the Stewards on how they saw the events. Isn't it funny how everyone else goes around whinging and trying to lay blame on Montoya/Schumie except the two drivers actually involved?. They have clearly stated it was a racing incident, sh1t happens and lets move on to the next race....

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P.S. Thanks for your support Jagman. At least 1 person out there has a reasonable opinion...

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what abt the 'lobbying factor' i mentioned  posts b4? i would still maintain the ms is a 1 time champ, the 1994 trophy doesn't count.

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sw4me you think a 1-time, which time is that, only 1994 and 2000 have been brought up, 1995 and 2001 haven't been mentioned.

And since this topic has become one of a "what if" I got a couple for you.

What if Schumacher's wooden plank appeal went the way of last years similar Jordan one, then Damon wouldn't have even been in the championship come Adelaide 1994.

What if Moss hadn't spoken up in 1958.

What if Lauda hadn't crashed in 1976.

What if Pironi hadn't crashed in 1982.

What if Mansell didn't blow a tyre in 1986.

What if Prost/Senna hadn't crashed in 1989/1990.

And thats just to mention some of the higher profile ones.

So come on guys Schumacher is a 4-time, not a should-be 1,2,3,5-time.

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:0 ,just goes on to prove that ms has been lucky,far luckier than the other world champs of his time, and ferrari to a large extent have thrown in their weight behind him, that ferrari have a loud resonance in the piranha club is not to be forgotten, all said and done, f1 is a sport and with all the rules and regulations we expect all the teams to hv an equal say and all cars to be approximately equitable on any plane. this is never the case, the teams with bigger monies in their wallets outclass the others in terms of support,logistics and also influence in the f1a, and therein lies the support for drivers of those teams like ms etc...ferrari have long been around in f1, approx 2 decades prior to mclaren( exactly 16 years), the current admins in f1 include a part from the golden era, and this gives them a high lobbying power, of course i would never hold all of ms's victories against him,that wouldn't be fair. honestly, think and tell me how many drivers hv been affected by this coterie of power, i can say hill, villeneuve, mika, david and also trulli and fisi to a certain extent. we sure have divided loyalties in f1 and each one of us would be thrilled if we c the team that we support win, but then would one champ and say 2 contenders be gr8 or 1 champ wih 10 conteder teams be gr8. i sure know that his issue is not abt mika, dc or ms and chello, it's about winners and those who didn't make it as much as it is about the wealty teams and the not so wealthy ones. i maintain that ms is a 1 time champ as there hv been a lot of non-racing behind the scene incidents aiding him in his wins, that is all. otherwise i hv no grouse. i would love to c minardi, arrows or jag or toyota win, that would also win f1 a lot more viewers and fans. this is not an issue of my sparring against michael's fans but my effort to c what the malaise in the sport is, why it remains an exlusivist one and one that seems greek and latin to the general public, why the dealings are shadowy, why the rules are decided by the fat cats and why natural talent as in the case of frentzen or fisi or trulli is more of a flash in the pan incident than one spelling 'wins wins wins'. that would be doing honour to this sport.

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nichosnz he cheated 94 97 alright. plus it has been said that in 2000 he was lucky coz of mclaren not saying he didn't deserve 2000 ok. but if you think about this doesn't mean he is best he has the bestcar on the grid would if hakkinen had it and ms had a mclaren huh? you never think that ferrari might help him alil here with the car. and anyone who has to cheat ever is worthy of being a champion ever. all you ms fans are crazy you think he is "god" or something and you are blinded by the fact that you are a fan and can't see it when he cheats or says it was the over guys fought in an incident. he had plenty of room and watch the onboard camera with jpm and you'll see him understeer into him. well ms fans won't but normal people will

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yes, j_r i will hv to agree with u on that. when seen from montoya's cam he does appear to understeer into him. and one only as to think abt belgium to c when mclaren is reliable,hakkinen in his element is sublime. ferrari have not helped him here and there but have helped him the whole way thru. this was what 94 and 97 have proven.

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