BAR to be best of the rest !!!

[rodders47 2]

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW what a statement, they are admitting that they (BAR) will not be able to match the TOP runners , so they have set their goal at running 4th !!!!!!!... next year ?

Um glad I am not one of their signed drivers for next year if that is the teams idea f competing !!!!

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

I think it is a case of being realistic, not too much of a chance that BAR will catch up with the top three for next year. I hope it would happen to make F1 more competitive again, but I dont see it happening until at least 2004.

[daz 0]

Yeah they are just being realistic. In fact I even think that 4th is probably a bit ambitious for BAR next year. Especially when you consider that Renault, Jaguar & Sauber are all also aiming for that same spot...

[nichosnz 0]

4th may be so, or are they aiming for 2nd. There is no way in 2002 that Renault can claim to be best of the rest. That spot belongs to Williams, 116 (plus Suzuka) points behind Ferrari.

If fact, constructors championship lead is one record Ferrari cannot beat this season. 1988 McLaren won from Ferrari by 134 points, if Ferrari get a 1-2 in Suzuka the lead can be 132 (If Williams don't score). But if they get a 1-2 Ferrari will have the same amount of points as all the other teams put together. Which McLaren didn't do in 1988 they needed 200 they got 199.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

Nichos makes a good point, really the best of the rest this year starts with second place, Ferrari have been so far ahead of everyone else. I think the fight for fourth will be much tighter next year with Renault, Sauber, Jaguar, BAR, maybe even Jordan and Toyota (why not Minardi, if they get a good engine) going for it. That is actually all the other teams apart from what is now the top 3.

[nichosnz 0]

It really is a pity the grid is not a lot closer from 1st to 10th (used to be 11th, damn Arrows). It may happen in the future, but it is not yet forseeable. The teams are suppose to, and traditionally have bunched up in a period of rule stability, not the top team continuing to extent their lead.

Maybe the HANS system will hinder the Ferrari drivers more allowing the others to catch up a little. A bit far fetched I know.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

That depends, everyone else will have to wear it too. The only thing that will make the racing closer is to lessen the restrictions on car design by the FIA, to let the great minds of Adrian Newey, Henri Durand, and Mike Gascoyne put to use all the ideas they have but arent allowed in F1. Less dependence on aerodynamical grip, allow the engines to have a bigger displacement (and start using Beryllium again, this seems to have been a factor in the downturn of Mercedes).

[nichosnz 0]

I thought Beryllium was outlawed for health reason, rather than anything else.

Loose the aero grip and keep the grooved tyres, races with less grip are more exciting, wet races, Euro GP 2002.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

I dont know why Beryllium was banned, but I do remember Paul Morgan and the people at Ilmor complaining about it after the 2000 season. I agree, lose aero dependency, allow more mechanical freedom.

[nichosnz 0]

Ferrari and BMW had to give it up too, although Mercedes started using it first, Ferrari and BMW followed. It was either health of cost cutting.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

I think the whole reliability factor in the Mercedes was the Beryllium being a stronger substance than what is used now. Ilmor hasn't been able to bring the same grunt and reliability from their engine since, you could see it last year with all the times Hakkinen's car failed, and all the times Kimi's car failed this year.

[nichosnz 0]

Ferrari and BMW didn't have the same problems though.

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

I think it has to do with Ilmor having based all development around the beryllium, and when they couldnt use it anymore Mario Illien admitted it would be harder for them to adapt to whatever they use now.

[nichosnz 0]

I suppose it help that Ferrari and BMW knew the ban was announce but not yet in force when the started using it.

[rodders47 2]

well back to the original topic.. I always thought that Motor Racers AIMED for the top spot ie. FIRST whenever they went racing, I sure do with my 1/5th race car, else why compete. OK to do a P.B. is great but at the end of the day the record books only show FIRST place in reality !!

I know when I go model car racing that one guy will most likely beat me , but hell I give it my BEST 10 10th's to beat him and that goes with all sports. To be a driver in a team that is happy to be "Top Of The Also Rans" ( and with the budget they have !! Imagine fronting up to the board of sponsors and saying , well we are not good enough to win but hey we can be the best of the rest , but will you PLEASE give me $200 mill anway )would have to be a big letdown , for me it would be anyway !!!

[TotalF1 Jens 0]

That does bring up the whole sponsor question, many companies may not want to put money into a team not aiming to win. I dont think money will an issue for BAR though with BAT owning them and Honda backing them.

[nichosnz 0]

Although BAT are going to have to withdraw, of do some clever marketing, when the tobacco ban is inforced.

[rodders47 2]

Hi Nichos,

I don't suppose you have a pic of the Lotus 23 F 1 car at all ?

I built a Formula Libre car based on the Lotus 23 back in the '60's from plans supplied by Colin Chapman. Would love a pic of that car

Rod

[nichosnz 0]

Are you sure it was an F1 car the only F1 Lotus' in the 20'sI can find evidence of are the 18/21, 21, 22, 24, 25. But I'll keep looking.

[nichosnz 0]

Rod I don't wish to accuse you of going senile...lol. But all the pics I can find of Lotus 23 show a full bodied, not F1, car. So let me rephrase my earlier question, are you sure it was the 23.

[rodders47 2]

well at my age Nichos maybe I am going senile but I am sure it was a Lotus 23 b the C was the soprts car if my OLDDDDDDDD memory serves me correct *smile* This was the car that "Jim Clark" drove painted the normal British Racing Green with a Yellow go faster stripe and I think had a Coventry Climax engine , not real sure about that but No rear wing.

Anyway not a problem just would love to see that car again as I reckon those old cars look sexy not like the current crap :-)

[nichosnz 0]

Of the ones I mentioned the 21, and 25 were driven by Clark, and had Climax engines. In 1961-1964 and one race in 65.