93 replies to this topic

[Massa]

The number of wrecks you typically get in ARCA, you'll probably only see the first ten laps before it's bedtime.

Bobby Gerhart paced final practice today, now with a legal engine.

Starting lineup:

1. Sean Corr
2. Ryan Reed
3. Steve Blackburn
4. Tom Hessert (good guy)
5. Chris Windom
6. Cale Gale (CWTS driver this season)
8. Chris Buescher (Roush-Fenway driver)
11. Brandon McReynolds (son of NASCAR broadcaster and former crew chief Larry)
14. Alex Bowman (future star in stock car racing)
16. Milka Duno (right in the middle of it...eurgh)
17. Frank Kimmel (nine-time ARCA champion)
18. Max Gresham (CWTS driver this season)
22. Fain Skinner (ran NNS last year)
26. Leilani Münter (former Indy Lights competitor and environmentalist saving the planet by driving stock cars)
29. Sloan Henderson (significant because woman)
34. Mike Harmon (NNS driver)
36. Paulie Harraka (ivy league graduate, CWTS driver this season)
39. James Harvey Hylton (77 years old)
42. Bobby Gerhart (seven-time winner of this race, including the past two)

[JHS18]

Massa, on 18 February 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

The number of wrecks you typically get in ARCA, you'll probably only see the first ten laps before it's bedtime.

You're right about that so far...

[JHS18]

Wow, I'll admit, that was a pretty cool finish. I enjoyed that.

[Massa]

At first I was like:

Quote

This might be the worst race I've ever seen.

And then I was like:

Quote

F*** YEAH BOBBY GERHART

Bizarre.

[Massa]

People laughed when Kyle Busch was going to test with Toyota and indicated that if he won a Cup championship and was still in his 20s, he'd try to go over to F1.  Now I realize he'd need a long time to adapt to that style of racing and those cars, just like any of these open-wheel guys learned the hard way going straight to Cup, and I also realize Busch was just trying to be arrogant and controversial and make people mad and didn't mean what he said, but...to all who don't think the talent's there...

First he saves it (watch it on mute...this is what I mean when I talk about why commentators need to shut up sometimes)



Then he saves it again after Jeff Gordon tries so hard to wreck him (watch it on mute...yes, Darrell, I can see Jeff's upside down, so tell me eighty-three times)



And then he won the race, which wasn't actually that impressive because let's be honest, Daytona is an exaggerated caricature of auto racing, though with all that damage on his car it actually is impressive (watch it on mute...as with any close finish, everyone feels the need to talk at once)

http://tinyurl.com/88ouzy3

I don't like Kyle Busch.  Guy's damn good and FFS learn to commentate I can't watch thirty-six of these races if they're going to be called like that oh my god.

[Massa]

So I figure the Daytona 500 will be a big cluster of pack racing, and the final two laps (whether the real final two laps or some silly green-white-checkered which, let's be honest, is a total guarantee at this track) will be tandem drafting (not two-car tandem drafting, Darrell, that's redundant).  I don't know how I feel about that but I'm going to complain anyway.  I just don't know how to take the fact that America's biggest race is one of the least interesting on the calendar by being so offensively over-the-top.

But they put the Daytona name on it so I have to watch it.  I guess who wins will determine how I feel about it.

Qualifying (they're calling it "Pole Day," that's Indy, sorry boys, I know you like to claim you invented the SAFER Barrier and the HANS Device too, so I guess it's not the worst thing you stole) is this afternoon.  As outlined, it will set the front row and nothing else.

However, it's Hockey Day in America (more stealing; Hockey Day in Canada came first).  Pittsburgh at Buffalo, San Jose at Detroit, St. Louis at Chicago, Boston at Minnesota, and New Jersey at Montréal, all on national television.  You know where I'll be...

[JHS18]

Just confused about this - so qualifying sets the front row - but how do the Gatorade duel races work? How do they even determine who starts where in those?

You Americans sure know how to draw out a sporting event and make it overly complicated and confusing.

/NASCARnewb (has anyone actually used the word "newb" since 2007? Well I just did)

[Massa]

You act like I actually know.

The front row will be locked in today.  The pole sitter will also start from pole in the first Duel.  The outside-pole sitter will start from pole in the second Duel.  The lineups for the Duels will be determined by qualifying and owner's points.  Basically, if you finished in an odd-numbered owner's points position, you are in Duel 1.  If you were in an even-numbered owner's points position, you are in Duel 2.  Obviously they adjust the owner's points to the cars actually entered in the race so there is an even number (25 in Duel 1, 24 in Duel 2).  They are lined up amongst themselves by their qualifying time today.

The Duels will largely set the starting lineup 3-43, but not entirely (Duel 1 the inside row, Duel 2 the outside row).  The top 35 cars from last year's owner's points are guaranteed to start the race.

The other eight are filled:

1) The top two finishers in each Duel who were not top 35 last year will start according to where they placed in the Duel.

2) Then the top four fastest cars in today's qualifying not already in the field will make it.

3) If there is a past champion (would either be Terry Labonte or Bill Elliott) not already in the field, the most recent past champion (if both, it would be Labonte over Elliott) will start forty-third, bumping the slowest of the four locked in in step two.

If a driver not in the top 35 qualifies front row today, that driver will be locked in, and I assume they would then only take three cars in step two (or two if there is a past champion).

[Massa]

The Shootout returns to the original rules...pole winners from 2012 and any past Shootout winner who entered a race in 2012 will be eligible for the 2013 race.

Likely means the race will no longer be called the Bud Shootout.  Budweiser changed the rules once Coors Light replaced them as the sponsor of the Pole Award.

[Massa]

I think they're supposed to unveil the 2013 Toyota Camry racing car this week...not sure.

Carl Edwards and teammate Greg Biffle will lead the field to green at Daytona.

The rest of the lineup is completely meaningless, which is too bad, because two of the guys I really like in this series, Ambrose and Mears, got fourth and fifth.  Hopefully they gain a little confidence and drive with some swagger this week, not to imply anything prior to the final two or three laps of the 500 is going to matter because let me tell you, it won't.

Ford's really fast in single-car running.  But it's all about the pack and the draft so I wouldn't be giving this one to the blue oval yet.

Only other thing of relevance?  How about the guys not in the top 35.  Here they are:

9. Trevor Bayne
26. Tony Raines
30. Kenny Wallace
31. Terry Labonte
32. Dave Blaney
35. Michael Waltrip
36. Joe Nemechek
39. Michael McDowell
43. Bill Elliott
44. Mike Wallace
45. David Stremme
47. Robert Richardson
48. Robby Gordon
49. J.J. Yeley

What does that mean?  Elliott, Mike Wallace, Stremme, Richardson, Gordon, and Yeley must transfer in through the Duel races because there is no possible scenario in which they would be among the fastest four cars not already in.  The exception is that Elliott has a past champion's provisional...because Terry Labonte is guaranteed in (see below), Elliott will also make be locked in.

It also means that Bayne, Raines, Wallace, and Labonte will start the Daytona 500.  There is no possibility that they can't be among the four fastest not locked in, no matter what happens in the Duel races.  Because Labonte will not need to use his past champ's provisional, Elliott is eligible to use his.

Keep score at home on Thursday.

[Massa]

HOLD THE PHONE BILL ELLIOTT IS NOT LOCKED IN.

Past champion takes precedence over the fourth fastest car; if Terry doesn't make it based on top two and is the fourth fastest car he will be charged with the past champ's provisional and if Bill Elliott is not one of the top two he is gone gone gone.

HOWEVER, if Labonte makes it as a top two driver, or one of the three fastest drivers, Bill is in.

[Massa]

Look what I found...





2013 Dodge Charger Sprint Cup vehicle.  Figure that snout isn't cut out for this drafting stuff, eh?

Gotta give it up for little old NASCAR.  It looks like a Dodge Charger.

[Massa]

The results I had from qualifying were incorrect.

9. Bayne
25. Raines
26. Stremme
30. Kenny Wallace
31. Terry Labonte
32. Blaney
35. Waltrip
36. Nemechek
39. McDowell
43. Elliott
44. Mike Wallace
46. Richardson
47. Robby Gordon
48. Yeley

Nemechek on back need to transfer in via the Duel races, with the exception of Elliott, who can use a provisional if and only if Terry Labonte does not use his.  Bayne, Raines, Stremme, and Wallace will race the Daytona 500.  Stremme only has eight people on his team: himself, his crew chief, and the six pit crew members.

The Gatorade Duels have lineups:

1. Edwards
2. Earnhardt
3. Ambrose
4. Stenhouse
5. Bayne
6. Stewart
7. Almirola
8. Menard
9. Ragan
10. Allmendinger
11. Keselowski
12. Harvick
13. Burton
14. Montoya
15. Stremme
16. McMurray
17. Patrick
18. Terry Labonte
19. Waltrip
20. Hamlin
21. McDowell
22. Cassill
23. Gilliland
24. Mike Wallace
25. Robby Gordon

Duel 2
1. Biffle
2. Mears
3. Jeff Gordon
4. Truex
5. Martin
6. Johnson
7. Kenseth
8. Newman
9. Logano
10. Kahne
11. Raines
12. Kyle Busch
13. Kenny Wallace
14. Blaney
15. Kurt Busch
16. Sadler
17. Nemechek
18. Smith
19. Bobby Labonte
20. Elliott
21. Reutimann
22. Richardson
23. Yeley
24. Bowyer

[Massa]

Fifty cars will go for the forty-three spots in Saturday's Nationwide race.  Traditional qualifying for that one.

Irregularities:

Kurt Busch in the #1 HendrickCars.com Chevrolet for Phoenix Racing.
Dale Earnhardt, Jr. in the #5 TaxSlayer.com Chevrolet for JR Motorsports.
Timmy Hill in the #15 Poynt Ford for Rick Ware Racing.
Benny Gordon in the #24 Kentucky Antler Co. Toyota for whatever the Cope twins call their team.
David Ragan in the #27 CertainTeed Ford for Go Canada Racing.
J.J. Yeley in the #28 Chevrolet for Jay Robinson Racing.
Tony Stewart in the #33 Oreo/Ritz Chevrolet for Richard Childress Racing.
Ryan Truex in the #36 Chevrolet for Tommy Baldwin Racing.
Reed Sorenson in the #52 Chevrolet for Jimmy Means Racing.
Trevor Bayne in the #60 Ford for Roush-Fenway Racing.
Donnie Neuenberger in the #76 Eagle Convenience Ford for Ray Hackett Racig.
Johnny Sauter in the #97 Toyota for NEMCO Motorsports.

[Massa]

CWTS has forty-four to go for thirty-six.  Traditional qualifying.

The entire CWTS is an irregularity so here are some drivers of interest:

Brendan Gaughan (#2 South Point Chevrolet)
Ty Dillon (#3 Bass Pro Shops Chevrolet)
Travis Kvapil (#09 RAB Racing Toyota)
Todd Bodine (#11 Good Sam Toyota)
Dusty Davis (#15 Thunderexhaust Toyota)
Jason Leffler (#18 Dollar General Toyota)
Brad Keselowski (#19 REESE Towpower Dodge)
Ward Burton (#27 State Water Heaters Chevrolet)
Nelson Piquet, Jr. (#30 Qualcomm Chevrolet)
David Reutimann (#92 fleetHQ Chevrolet)

[Massa]

Original was here.

[Massa]

Kasey Kahne wrecked in practice today.  I'll give you one guess as to which Juan Pablo Montoya was the cause.

1. Kenseth
2. Bayne
3. Stenhouse
4. Ambrose
5. Martin
6. Bowyer

All over 200.  Front four Fords.

Best 10 consecutive lap averages:

1. Biffle
2. Bayne
3. Patrick
4. Gilliland
5. Stewart
6. T. Labonte
7. J. Gordon
8. Martin
9. Stenhouse
10. Montoya

Only 30 drivers actually ran 10 consecutive laps, which is important to note.

Practice teams mean nothing at Daytona, by the way.  And not like "oh F1 testing means nothing" when it actually does mean something, Daytona practice literally has no correlation whatsoever to anything that will ever happen.  Even if Kenseth wins over Bayne, it still meant nothing.  They'll run 500 miles, no doubt get a guaranteed green-white-checkered, and none of anything that has ever happened will ever connect with the final lap and the race winner.

[Massa]

ESPN Classic has been showing a lot of Daytona 500s this year.

Here are some you might like:

The very first...


Some pit strategy for you...

[Massa]

This is NASCAR...perfect...


Not very "exciting," but very historical...

[Massa]

Nobody could contain Bill Elliott's Ford Thunderbirds, much faster than today's cars; here's the more interesting of his two wins...


A great moment for the Allison family, who lost two sons, Clifford and Davey, soon after...

[Massa]

Biggest upset in the history of the 500...eludes Dale again...


1993...Dale and Dale...

[Massa]

1979...how could I forget to share this...first live-televised Daytona 500 and now you know why NASCAR is popular...

[Massa]

1998...finally...


1999...good stuff...

[Massa]

2007...


Okay now I'm done.

[JHS18]

Seems like the Gatorade races are on at a sensible time here, so I'll probably tune in tonight. I hope to catch the Daytona 500 too.

[Massa]

7:19 PM start for you.

FOX was closing down streams of the Bud Shootout last weekend so be careful.  TNT and ESPN were known to shut streams off last year, but FOX/SPEED usually never did, so we'll see.  Seems they are going to this year.

You can go to motorracingnetwork.com and stream the radio coverage if you can't find a feed, and nascar.com (the site isn't run by NASCAR at all; it's run by Turner Media who will lose the rights after this year as NASCAR is going to take control of its own Internet presence, which is nice, welcome to 1999 etc) for "live timing" that is not actually live at all and doesn't like to refresh automatically.

http://www.motorraci...com/stream.html

[JHS18]

Alright, thanks for the info. I guess even that is favourable to not seeing/hearing about it at all.

Question for you - do you think these Gatorade races and the 500 will be as wild as the Shootout was? I'm not like WOO YEAH CRASHES, I'm just wondering if I'm going to see anything decent as a new fan, or just a lot of lengthy cautions.

Edited by JHS18, 23 February 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Massa]

If you couldn't tell, I really don't actually enjoy the racing at Daytona and Talladega.  I think it's a caricature of automobile racing; so over-the-top, over-exaggerated, almost insulting.  It's like Ben Edwards is to commentary; these races are just a lot of noise to me.

So, here's what you will see today.  You can determine whether or not it interests you; it doesn't interest me but even I'll still watch the 500.

1) You'll see a lot of close pack racing today.  All the cars are going to be together, two and three wide, a lot of action.
2) You'll see tandems as a way to break out of the pack.
3) You'll probably see a close finish.  It always gets extra wild at the end of the race.
4) You might not see guys going as hard today because they're already locked into the show, so they don't want to tear up good cars.
5) There will be a lot of lead changes, a lot of "passes" where you can't even control it...you're going past whether you like it or not because of how the draft works.
6) A lot of teamwork/working together/cutting deals.
7) There will be wrecks.  There are always wrecks.


The 500?  Varying levels of all of that.  There will be periods of people being patient, periods of people going whether they like it or not, and people getting really wild at the end.

Cautions etc.?  The Cup guys will probably take it a little easier today.  The 500 usually has a lot of them, especially toward the end when people stop hanging back and really go for it.

It won't be like the ARCA race where they were basically in one big line until they all ran out of fuel.  1) The Cup cars are better suited to the track so they will be passing and 2) the Cup drivers are better, so they won't have as many stupid wrecks, though tandem drafting, when it happens, often leads to a lot of guys getting turned around.

Bud Shootout, I didn't see it, but it'll probably be a lot like that.

[Massa]

Didn't watch the Duels.

Stewart and Kenseth won.

Drivers who made it:
11. Michael McDowell
17. Robby Gordon
24. Dave Blaney
34. Joe Nemechek
40. Trevor Bayne
41. Tony Raines
42. David Stremme
43. Terry Labonte

Drivers who won't run the Daytona 500:
Mike Wallace, J.J. Yeley, Bill Elliott, Robert Richardson, Michael Waltrip, and Kenny Wallace.

Races will be called the Budweiser Duels next year.  Shootout sponsorship now up for grabs.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 24 February 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Didn't watch the Duels.

Stewart and Kenseth won.

Drivers who made it:
11. Michael McDowell
17. Robby Gordon
24. Dave Blaney
34. Joe Nemechek
40. Trevor Bayne
41. Tony Raines
42. David Stremme
43. Terry Labonte

Drivers who won't run the Daytona 500:
Mike Wallace, J.J. Yeley, Bill Elliott, Robert Richardson, Michael Waltrip, and Kenny Wallace.

Races will be called the Budweiser Duels next year.  Shootout sponsorship now up for grabs.

It's a worrying development when I watch a NASCAR race and you don't...

Even more worrying when I admit I enjoyed it and that I'm looking forward to watching the 500 this weekend.