37 replies to this topic

[kup]

Fact: MS-DH after 16 gp were 92-91 pts.
And MS, DH had less points, in case of AS presence.
Way 33%: i gonna cut 1/3 pts from both MS-DH = 61-61
(coz AS, MS, DH - were 3 best drivers as in `93, as in `94, imho)

TOTAL = AS 88, MS 61, DH 61 - just imho ...
Wins = AS 8,5wins, MS 3+1,5 (not more) = 13gp, and DH 3wins (not more).
Wins = AS=8(0+8), MS=5(3+2), DH=3(0+3).
Points = AS=0+88, MS=40+21, DH=7+54

Edited by kup, 02 October 2005 - 06:01 PM.

[kup]

Note: Can, Fra, Hun, Eur (won by MS) - and DH was always 2nd,
so we can say AS can be 1st there ...
Note: Spn, Gbr, Bel, Ita, Por, Jpn (won by DH) - and AS ~ 1st.
Fact: AS were likely to win where DH (Williams) was better.

AS 8 wins at = 16`Aus, 09`Ger, ~all 6gp won by DH. = 8 wins.
MS 5 wins at = 01`Bra, 02`Pac, 03`Rsm, 04`Mnc +1gp (Hun, coz Jos +4pts)
DH 3 wins at = 08`Gbr(P+F), Bel, Ita (coz was no MS, and Jpn was rain (AS) =)

but, so we have a clue that DH will have less pts than MS ...
MS: Can, Hun, Eur - won with Pole and fastlap.
DH: GBR (P+F), and Bel, Ita, Jpn (Fastlap).

=) TOTAL TABLE CLASSIC

AS 0 0 0 0 10+ 20+ 30+ 36
MS 10+ 20+ 30+ 40+ 44 50 56 56
DH 6 6 7 7 13 17 21 31+

= = =
AS 46+ 52 58 64 74+ 84+ 94+ 104+
MS 56 66+ 66 66 66 72 76 76
DH 31 35 45+ 55+ 61 65 71 71

= = =

Edited by kup, 02 October 2005 - 06:26 PM.

[Der Kaiser]

Good god, I am blinded by numbers

[pumpdoc]

kaisersalsek, on Aug 27 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

Good god, I am blinded by numbers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

          

[JayStorm]

Yeah, I got the basic gist but you could've set it out a little more clearly, it's very interesting though.

JS.

[cavallino]

I think I have said this before but kup, your posts are incomprehensible. indent them make a spreadsheet use a word document make tables or something. and then take a csreenshot and post it.

[kup]

JayStorm, on Aug 27 2005, 11:46 PM, said:

Yeah, I got the basic gist but you could've set it out a little more clearly, it's very interesting though.
JS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just wonder could it be show-season 1994 if Senna be Oke since Spain ?
and in short my prognosis is like:
AS = 104 pts = 8 wins (maximum)
MS = 76 pts = 5 wins (4start + hun) but minimum !
DH = 71 pts = 3 wins (Gbr, Bel, Ita) same minimum.

in other words if Senna can show all his best (and no Williams failures).

Have somebody other Post-Prognosys about 1994 ?
i`d like to know good analytix (better than mine =) of everybody !
Thanx !

[Shadow]

JayStorm, on Aug 28 2005, 05:16 AM, said:

Yeah, I got the basic gist but you could've set it out a little more clearly, it's very interesting though.

JS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well yeah i could'nt understand fully what he said. i think it will be better if you use sentences kup, but interesting stuff anway

[kup]

Thanx for good words, All =)

but will be more interesting for All
to know other ways of calculating
to compare with mine, right ?

Thanx, awaiting ...

1993 - Prost = 99 pts, AS=73, DH=69; and APH comparsion is 10:7.
Williams was much better than McLeren, imho.
Again, imho, AS was as good driver as AP (i see from 1988-89-90).
So same comparsion ASH = 10:7
DH had 7 pts in first 4 gp of 1994, and 84 in next 12.
AS had 0 in frist 4 gp - and could have 84*10/7 = 120 pts (theory)

[kup]

Plus, as we know MS make mistakes under pressure:
Aus`94, Eur`97, Aus`05, Tur`05, etc =)
so, imho, AS could catch and pass MS in autumn `94

[nojvnof1]

just on Senna and Williams. The car was abit of a dog early in the season but by about 2 or 3 races after Imola they had the car sorted out and was much more competitive, apparently the handling was the major problem.

[kup]

nojvnof1, on Aug 30 2005, 09:03 AM, said:

just on Senna and Williams. The car was abit of a dog early in the season but by about 2 or 3 races after Imola they had the car sorted out and was much more competitive, apparently the handling was the major problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oke, i agree, we know it by 1994 results =)
but i`d like to ask all to post here other calculatiions than mine
and i`d like it to be much better than mine
but ... i just continue to wait ... and ?
=)

p.s. i just feel myself like Bridgestone in USA`05
i have not best, but imho "system" opinion
and others just says "it is useless, etc"
and no one really can show me better calculations
=)

[nojvnof1]

I wasn't disagreeing or commenting on your points system mate, just stating that the Williams as a car was a bad one whilst Senna was there, after his passing, the car underwent a major developmental process which saw it's performance increase significantly.

[kup]

Oke, i agree with you, but plz, can you post here your own
1994 Drivers table (if AS be alive).
Thanx.

p.s. you can explain nothing, just post driver`s points, it`s oke =)
and very good if with Who won where in 1994 (just your opinion)

[nojvnof1]

I really have no clue and I really don't remember alot of 1994 so I can't make any judgements.

[kup]

Oke, maybe try to look at 1994 and 1993 tables for compare ?
f1db.com =)

[Karta]

This table is non-withstanding.

Most funniest part is by statistic you consider driver who got no points from 3 first races suddenly get minimum 6 from each next one meaning that he would either be 1st or second and *NEVER* fail to finish. I find especially that part unbelievable. Furtheron you seem to give him Schumi victories when Hill finished second? Is that the only criteria or did you also have insight how close to Schumacher Hill was? BTW, dunno how Schumacher was back in Benetton days, but in Ferrari he slowed down when victory was assured in order to preserve his car so looking just at results wont do it imo.

Thats only one of few problems with your statistics.

[pumpdoc]

Very good!!!!!!!!!

[kup]

What if 1994 San-Marino GP was cancelled and removed just after Italy Monza GP ?
I think Senna could win Monaco 7th time, and catch up MS right to removed autumn Imola gp.

[pumpdoc]

What if? what if? what if? what if the world wasn't round?

[kup]

pumpdoc, on Oct 2 2005, 10:05 PM, said:

What if? what if? what if? what if the world wasn't round?

Yes, pumpdoc, you are right, and you can start another topic, like:
what if the world wasn't round?
By the way: if world for you is earth - this planet is "spheroid" - not round or ball or smth =)

I just want to show that FiA made it very wrong by continuing 1994 Imola GP.
Just ... can you say: do you agree that cancelling in such cases (death !) are anyway better than continuing ?
or you think that nothing can stop current GP even death ?
That`s it !

Edited by kup, 03 October 2005 - 04:53 AM.

[pumpdoc]

Life like racing goes on.........................

[Senna]

pumpdoc, on Oct 3 2005, 03:45 PM, said:

Life like racing goes on.........................

Not for Ayrton Senna...

Edited by Senna, 03 October 2005 - 04:04 PM.

[pumpdoc]

Senna, on Oct 3 2005, 09:03 AM, said:

Not for Ayrton Senna...

Life for the living goes on as does racing.................

[demonhorse]

pumpdoc, on Oct 4 2005, 12:32 AM, said:

Life for the living goes on as does racing.................

why didn't anyone tell the Michelin runners that at Indy?

[ecapdeville]

demonhorse, on Oct 4 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

why didn't anyone tell the Michelin runners that at Indy?

Because Shumacher wouldnt win any race this season... pure logic...!

[demonhorse]

ecapdeville, on Oct 4 2005, 06:29 PM, said:

Because Shumacher wouldnt win any race this season... pure logic...!

given his form and the car he had for most of the season he didn't deserve to win... and that's coming from a heruge Schumi and Ferrari fan.

Still.. at least the cars coming good (or better) now.... just a teensy bit late

[Senna]

nojvnof1, on Sep 2 2005, 10:14 AM, said:

I really have no clue and I really don't remember alot of 1994 so I can't make any judgements.

I remember it as if were yesterday.  You are right though, the Williams FW16, without the electronic gismos that had made its immediate predecessors so dominant, was very nervous and unpredictable at the beginning of 1994.  It didn’t stop Ayrton getting pole at every race he entered that year though.  Indeed, his old friend and former team-mate Gerhard Berger described Senna’s 1994 pole positions as some of the very best of his career...

Edited by Senna, 19 October 2005 - 10:52 PM.

[pumpdoc]

Senna, on Oct 19 2005, 03:49 PM, said:

I remember it as if were yesterday.  You are right though, the Williams FW16, without the electronic gismos that had made its immediate predecessors so dominant, was very nervous and unpredictable at the beginning of 1994.  It didn’t stop Ayrton getting pole at every race he entered that year though.  Indeed, his old friend and former team-mate Gerhard Berger described Senna’s 1994 pole positions as some of the very best of his career...

You are so right, why can't they go back to that style of Quali. where a DRIVER could show off his skill, and Senna was so mega!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Senna]

pumpdoc, on Oct 20 2005, 03:44 AM, said:

You are so right, why can't they go back to that style of Quali. where a DRIVER could show off his skill, and Senna was so mega!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know!  If a driver gets pole these days it means next to nothing: drivers get one run, they go out at a set time and in a set order and thus face often drastically different conditions (sometimes its just track temperature etc, other times one driver can set his lap in the wet and another sets his lap in the dry!), varying fuel loads also add to make it a totally unrepresentative, flawed and unfair system.  The pre-2003 qualifying system was much better than what we have today.  Sure, nothing happened at the beginning but this built up excitement and then it got really hectic at the end!  The important thing to note is that under the old qualifying system we were guaranteed a genuine, representative and fair system.  Furthermore, the small teams benefited as they often did their laps at the beginning, when the big players remained in their garages, and thus got lots of TV coverage, much more so than they get under a single lap qualifying system…