2016 Pirelli

[Sakae 0]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-says-vettel-s-tyre-failure-caused-by-debris-796088/

Quote

Pirelli has concluded that Sebastian Vettel's tyre failure in the Austrian Grand Prix was caused by debris.

Is everyone in agreement that this investigation might not be totally complete as it could have been? Considering that Pirelli had realistically about two days and two nights to perform the analysis, I am somewhat doubtful they had time to go into lab, and re-run simulated test on the test rig under conditions Vettel't tire blew up, to eliminate structural design, or composition of materials out of suspicion, leaving a foreign element as a principle cause behind the failure. From safety point of view I would be concerned, because I thought that failure is supose to be re-created and re-confirmed, before anyone can say - we understand what happened, and conclusion is...what? Stay away from debris, or we will give you a different tire...

Had this happened at Baku, and Vettel rammed wall once he lost control, having other cars climb over him, that would not had been good at all.

[Emmcee 0]

I find it hard to believe it would be a structural issue for the reason being the tyre let go when it wasn't under any load. If it was a structural issue, it would've pitched him of the circuit in the final corner where the tyre is under an extreme load, he was just unlucky. IMO we need to get rid of Pirelli, nothing but issues since they entered the sport. Never had these issues with Bridgestone or Michelin or even Goodyear.

[Sakae 0]

Pirelli most likely reasoned along similar lines, however it doesn't change the fact, that investigation would be abandoned then based on a hypothesis, rather than on a concrete evidence obtained from specific physical testing in an engineering laboratory. A conclusion based on hypothesis isn't necessarily a correct one, just sufficiently likely one.

[Emmcee 0]

They'll never do that, it will open up the discrepancies between each individual tyre and spark a whole new riot.

[Sakae 0]

5 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

They'll never do that, it will open up the discrepancies between each individual tyre and spark a whole new riot.

...yet that's proper way to do it. F1 woes notwithstanding, Pirelli is not fly by night outfit, thus I am thinking that they might run quietly further private tests in the backgroud, as any decent engineering outfit would do.

[Emmcee 0]

We can only hope.

[radical-one 0]

I thought they were getting better until last weekend accident by Vettel. 

But yes, IMO Pirelli is better this year than the previous years.

[Emmcee 0]

That's only due to the pressure regulations.

[radical-one 0]

I still prefer to see more than one tire supplier. It adds excitement to the competition 

[Sakae 0]

Having two suppliers in the past was causing a lot of grief, when delta in performance was massive. My understanding of current situation is, that Pirelli making tires on specifications issued by FiA, thus put it differently, we see in race what was ordered. It is somewhat unfair then to blame the supplier, who gets flak, deserved or not, in misdirected anger. It si rather weird way to promote one's brand on the world stage.

[radical-one 0]

They have in the past and still blames Pirelli for any tire issues anyways. If it's tire issues, they will blame the maker either way.

With other types of racing i.e. GT, LeMans, etc. there are tire wars. More exciting.

 

[Sakae 0]

DR declared "I am s**t", blaming tires which put him behind MV. Seems like we have "tire war" in the background already. Sebi had to sit out last race because of flat. Very annoying, mind you.

[Emmcee 0]

He said by lap three, they would be gone in no time he pushed on after max. Certain drivers setups affect tyre wear in a different way aswell, always has but could it be more noticeable this year?

[Sakae 0]

10 hours ago, Emmcee said:

He said by lap three, they would be gone in no time he pushed on after max. Certain drivers setups affect tyre wear in a different way aswell, always has but could it be more noticeable this year?

Inadverently you have just now confirmed what I've been telling you for some time. Two cars, even if in the same stable, aren't ever the same, which makes comparison of two teammate's performance suspect. DR might been able to do anything about that, but who will remember that next week? Everyone will talk about him getting schooled (I believe expression used) by Max. All reasons why I shy away from such mental excercise.

[Emmcee 0]

So you haven't seen any of my posts confirming you were correct or you want extra mustard? But if we're going down that path. I recall it was me who menioned both cars are never the same in terms of development either and people just laughed at me.

[Sakae 0]

For my defense, I've said the same on previous forum(s) as well, and subsequently dutifully ignored. Any technically\ oriented person, especially from automotive business, should know about it. All good then.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah I mentioned it in Canada, after you mentioned it from Monaco. I could see exactly what you were trying to say to me, so yeah i understand your point. So do you understand that both cars even though in the same team arnt exactly the same cars? The preferred driver will always get preferential treatment in terms of updates and parts before the other half will, it's always been like this and always will be, that's why both sides of a garage will compete to death against each other even though there from the same team, because there not the same car.

[Sakae 0]

I am talking about cars being geared up with the same development pieces, yet cars are still - significantly - different. I am referring to variability in manufacturing that exists, variability in assembly, race setup, environmental condition (one qualifies in wet, other one finds dry patch), tires, etc. One must not forget drivers are humans with different styles, and relatively similar cars may not suit the driving style equally to both. Take Ferrari in 2014. Designed to match Alonso's style to the detriment of Raikonnen. Alonso was once boasting how many more point he has against Kimi, yet he was quiet about what engineering did for him. P**s me off with that even more, than usual. Vettel and Raikonnen have similar styles, car was changed, and both drivers do perform better. (Ferrari switched from pull-rod to pull-rod system for this year. Vettel was less sensitive to it than Kimi, as results in 2015 show).

[BradSpeedMan 6]

On 2016/07/07 at 1:04 AM, Emmcee said:

I find it hard to believe it would be a structural issue for the reason being the tyre let go when it wasn't under any load. If it was a structural issue, it would've pitched him of the circuit in the final corner where the tyre is under an extreme load, he was just unlucky. IMO we need to get rid of Pirelli, nothing but issues since they entered the sport. Never had these issues with Bridgestone or Michelin or even Goodyear.

Good summary of what happened I feel

[radical-one 0]

Vettel: Nobody trusts Pirelli’s extreme wets

Date published: July 11 2016

Sebastian Vettel says F1's decision to start the British GP behind the Safety Car should not be criticised, as the blame rests with Pirelli's extreme wet tyres.

As a downpour hit Silverstone in the hour prior to Sunday's grand prix soaking the track, the decision was made to start the race behind the Safety Car.

The drivers put in five laps and were unhappy with the situation, especially because the conditions were good enough to switch straight to the intermediate tyres when the Safety Car finally pulled in.

Vettel, though, says the issue should not be about the Safety Car start but rather that teams and drivers do not "trust" Pirelli's extreme wet tyres.

"It depends where you are to be honest," he told ESPN about the decision. "I was looking forward to a start because it gives you a chance to move ahead.

"Obviously if you are in the lead then it's a safe bet that you will stay in the lead when you start behind the Safety Car.

"Initially I think it was the right call to start behind the Safety Car because there was quite a lot of standing water in the first half of the track, whereas the other half was quite dry.

"I think to criticise it's not really the call whether to start behind the Safety Car or not, I think to criticise is the fact that nobody has any trust in the extreme wets.

"So you'd rather take a lot of risk going on to the intermediates where there was a lot of aquaplaning in the beginning, simply because it's the quicker tyre.

 

[Sakae 0]

Buzz on the internet is (which I cannot confirm because I am not a Twitter guy), that Pirelli tweeted Vettel's tire was pierced by debris almost immediately, after Vettel park it. Tweet was later deleted, because probably someone questioned whether Hembery is that good to study tire comprehensively even before car comes to its full stop.

[Emmcee 0]

What complete bs, hear how they want to try enforce stint limitations on the tyres? This is a classic "pass the blame" story so Pirelli now puts the responsibility onto the individual and team so there trying to wipe there hands clean of any responsibility. "We told you the window and you still pushed it".

[radical-one 0]

See that's why I prefer to have another tire supplier so there will be real tire competition rather than Pirelli saying whatever they want and the teams just follows.

[Emmcee 0]

Yep couldn't agree more mate

[radical-one 0]

I hope Michellin or even Brigdestone (without groove) comes back